Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

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Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Apoptosis » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:41 am

Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

NVIDIA's GF100 graphic processor may be late to the game but the wait may have been worthwhile. Complete with 448 CUDA cores and a 320-bit GDDR5 memory sub-system, the GTX 470 packs quite the punch to do battle with AMD's HD 5870. Click through to see how the GTX 470 handles the competition along with how well it scales through overclocking.

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Article Title: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review
Article URL: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1315/1/
Pricing At Time of Print: $349.99
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby geokilla » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:50 pm

Wth? The GTX 470 destroyed the 5870? Is that even possible? All the reviews I've seen thus far, the GTX 470 is on par with the 5870 or its faster by a bit.

On your test configuration page, it says a XFX GTX 470 was used.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Major_A » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:02 pm

This should be a crime. All video cards should ship with a game. Even if they have to get cozy with Valve and package a card that shows people where to get Portal. There is no reason to pay this much for a gaming card with no game. To me this is like a motherboard manufacturer shipping a motherboard without SATA cables because they connect to drives you might not have.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Sttm » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:53 pm

Dont they all ship with a game on Newegg, Ive been looking through them and almost all have Just Cause 2, or Dirt, or MW2... oh and $70 off a thermaltake power supply combo!
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Major_A » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:08 pm

I think Newegg ships the game separately. What I want to see is the game already in the box. You know something to use your shiny new video card for.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby pwcmed » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:31 pm

Hmmm only one resolution and benchmarks that favor Nvidia? Something smells fishy.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Raven1001 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:18 am

LoL just had to register to point out this is the most Nvidia bias review and benchmarks I have ever seen, one crap game tested that has been shown to favor Nvidia hardware and two benchmarks that favor Nvidia, embarrassing really, so much so that it looks like Nvidia have payed you off big time, Just another site to go on my blacklist with a number of others. [-X
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby mccawpa » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:16 am

I too had to register to voice my surprise. What a crock of sh1t :evil:

I'm a Nvidia fan but this review was cringeworthy to the extreme. Just how much brown nosing did you do to Nvidia to get a free card to test? I really don't want to use the word "test" as it's an affront to other benchmarked tests others have done on this card. [-X
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:25 am

I'll let Chris comment on this review since he is the one that did the review and wrote the article in its entirety.

As for brown nosing to get a review sample... This card was a 30 day loaner from Zotac, so we did not get to keep the card nor did we get any compensation from the company.

Is my review on the GTX 470 more what you expected to see?

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1287/1/
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Raven1001 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:43 am

Your review is more acceptable if a bit over done on the TWIMTBP titles, although I suppose you have to pander to some of Nvidia's request, this current review should be taken down IMO, you're getting a load of stick for it on a number of sites, makes your site look like a joke. It should be left in the forums only as it looks like it's been done by an Nvidia fanboi. :oops:
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:58 am

Raven1001 wrote:Your review is more acceptable if a bit over done on the TWIMTBP titles, although I suppose you have to pander to some of Nvidia's request


You make it sound like NVIDIA tells us how to benchmark their cards... They really don't.

As for this review It was written by one of our staff writers - Chris Morrell who goes by the name 'Gomeler' in the overclocking community. I don't see him posting up BS to tarnish his reputation or this sites. I asked him to comment on his review at 4pm yesterday and he is MIA... I sent him another e-mail here at 4am and will see what he has to say about his numbers and findings.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Gomeler » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:43 am

So, before I get into each individual comment I'd like to make a few blanket statements.

1) We all know the performance of the HD 5870 vs GTX 470. This card launched a month or so back, every review site on the planet posted a review, and they all used the 197 drivers that were available at the time. When I was doing the benchmarks for this review 2 weeks back the 197 drivers were the only thing available as the 256 drivers were still in BETA. So, I could have either re-run the same benchmarks that Nate ran a month back with the 197 drivers, achieved roughly the same numbers, and spoonfed you guys the same conclusion, or I could have found a different avenue to waltz down. I chose to find the limits of the card and present them to show the frequency/FPS scaling. As luck would have it the 256 drivers were just released today and if I the review was still in the working stages I'd re-run with 256 vs 10.5. Sadly the timing didn't work out for this.

2) I received absolutely zero compensation for this review. I didn't even get to keep the card. So any claims of this being an NVIDIA paid review or me being an NVIDIA fanboy can stop right there. If I had been able to keep the GTX 470 or if NVIDIA had flown me out to California for a weekend of wining, dinning, and schmoozing, then I could understand such claims. It is a damn shame they didn't, I sure could use a vacation :lol:

3) Stone Giant and Heaven are beautiful benchmarks.. seriously. I personally had a lot of fun actually watching these benchmarks execute over and over again. It has been a while since I have had my nose inches away from the screen, watching frame by frame as a great fantasy scene unfolded before me.

In the end it sums up to this. 1) I couldn't bring any normal fresh material to the table. Clearly I could have just re-run what Nate ran and fed you guys the same material from a month back. 2) I should have asked to be paid off. If I'm being accused of it I should at least get some of the financial benefits. I sure could use the excess cash to buy some GTX 480s and liquid nitrogen. 3) Tessellation makes for beautiful tech demonstrations and I hope in the future we can see real games use it.

Now for the individual comments.


geokilla wrote:Wth? The GTX 470 destroyed the 5870? Is that even possible? All the reviews I've seen thus far, the GTX 470 is on par with the 5870 or its faster by a bit.

On your test configuration page, it says a XFX GTX 470 was used.


Good eye, my last NVIDIA GPU was an XFX, lingering memory :lol:

Major_A wrote:This should be a crime. All video cards should ship with a game. Even if they have to get cozy with Valve and package a card that shows people where to get Portal. There is no reason to pay this much for a gaming card with no game. To me this is like a motherboard manufacturer shipping a motherboard without SATA cables because they connect to drives you might not have.


Bundling games is usually a good marketing option but I have a feeling NVIDIA is cutting it close with this card. In the end also most of the games I have seen bundled gamers typically already have. It would be pretty sweet if GPU manufacturers would include something like a $25 or $35 credit to Steam so end-users could pick the game of their choosing.

Sttm wrote:Dont they all ship with a game on Newegg, Ive been looking through them and almost all have Just Cause 2, or Dirt, or MW2... oh and $70 off a thermaltake power supply combo!


They have weird time-slot based coupon codes going on, likely to push these cards out the door before the GTX 460 hits the shelves.

pwcmed wrote:Hmmm only one resolution and benchmarks that favor Nvidia? Something smells fishy.


I chose one resolution as my 24" monitor is temporarily unavailable and if you have a GTX 470 why would you game at 1280x1024? 1680x1050 was the highest resolution I could support at the time I did the benchmarks for this. I didn't explicitely choose NVIDIA biased benchmarks, I chose repeatable time-demos that support DX11. Unfortunately these are also tessellation heavy benchmarks as that is the new fad with DX11. AMD's RV870 is a great GPU, it has cornered the $300-$700 market for nearly 6 months, but it just isn't that strong in tessellation.

Raven1001 wrote:LoL just had to register to point out this is the most Nvidia bias review and benchmarks I have ever seen, one crap game tested that has been shown to favor Nvidia hardware and two benchmarks that favor Nvidia, embarrassing really, so much so that it looks like Nvidia have payed you off big time, Just another site to go on my blacklist with a number of others. [-X


I take offense to this comment. I'm glad an article got the emotionless masses slightly riled up but to claim I was paid off is insulting. Firstly, this card was a loaner, so I have zero incentive to paint a pretty picture. If you read the conclusion I frequently reference the HD5870 being a more economical and power-friendly option and I still stand by that. This is just like RV770 vs GT200 except AMD isn't playing catchup this time around and is priced very competitively. Lastly, if you thought I was being paid off you could have emailed me and asked me about it. My email address sits at the top of the article and I'd point out the same points. What have I got to lose by being honest? This claimed NVIDIA sponsorship? :lol:

mccawpa wrote:I too had to register to voice my surprise. What a crock of sh1t :evil:

I'm a Nvidia fan but this review was cringeworthy to the extreme. Just how much brown nosing did you do to Nvidia to get a free card to test? I really don't want to use the word "test" as it's an affront to other benchmarked tests others have done on this card. [-X


*sigh* card is a loaner, this card has been reviewed to death already, and I decided to have a little fun with it re: overclocking. No, I didn't run a ton of benchmarks, but I tested it pretty thoroughly with software tools that the average joe can acquire with a bit of Google searching and showed that this card just keeps on scaling. Guess that is the last time I attempt to show the overclockability of a VGA to normal people.

Raven1001 wrote:Your review is more acceptable if a bit over done on the TWIMTBP titles, although I suppose you have to pander to some of Nvidia's request, this current review should be taken down IMO, you're getting a load of stick for it on a number of sites, makes your site look like a joke. It should be left in the forums only as it looks like it's been done by an Nvidia fanboi. :oops:


I still stand by the numbers as I did the normal run 3 times, scan for inconsistencies, average the runs, dump the results into excel.

tl;dr -> 1) No, I am not paid off. 2) GTX 470 is "old" in the review world w/ no fresh changes(until 256 driver release today).
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:51 am

Very embarrassing for Legit Reviews and Nvidia.
It looks as if LR has sold it's soul to the devil, who ever it was at LR who thought that trading their credibility with Nv was a good idea... is in for a bit of a shock!
MANY other forum members are grabbing their sick buckets, and adding LR to their list 'untrustworthy' review sites, so I seriously don't no how anyone at LR thought this was going to be good for them.

Of course the other option is it is down to Nv and the reviewer 'CM', but still, someone higher than CM must give the review the ok before it's published???
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:57 am

Gomeler wrote:
I chose one resolution as my 24" monitor is temporarily unavailable and if you have a GTX 470 why would you game at 1280x1024? 1680x1050 was the highest resolution I could support at the time I did the benchmarks for this. I didn't explicitely choose NVIDIA biased benchmarks, I chose repeatable time-demos that support DX11. Unfortunately these are also tessellation heavy benchmarks as that is the new fad with DX11. AMD's RV870 is a great GPU, it has cornered the $300-$700 market for nearly 6 months, but it just isn't that strong in tessellation.


First of all you should have waited until the monitor wasn't temporarily unavailable (why was it unavailable in the first place?).
Secondly, So you didn't think it right to highlight the fact that in tessellation benchmarks Nv Architecture is pretty much able to dedicate all of it's shaders to tessellation processing, but that performance gap soon drops when you add other workload to the card, for example a REAL game!
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:12 am

Gomeler wrote:
mccawpa wrote:I too had to register to voice my surprise. What a crock of sh1t :evil:

I'm a Nvidia fan but this review was cringeworthy to the extreme. Just how much brown nosing did you do to Nvidia to get a free card to test? I really don't want to use the word "test" as it's an affront to other benchmarked tests others have done on this card. [-X


*sigh* card is a loaner, this card has been reviewed to death already, and I decided to have a little fun with it re: overclocking. No, I didn't run a ton of benchmarks, but I tested it pretty thoroughly with software tools that the average joe can acquire with a bit of Google searching and showed that this card just keeps on scaling. Guess that is the last time I attempt to show the overclockability of a VGA to normal people.

Raven1001 wrote:Your review is more acceptable if a bit over done on the TWIMTBP titles, although I suppose you have to pander to some of Nvidia's request, this current review should be taken down IMO, you're getting a load of stick for it on a number of sites, makes your site look like a joke. It should be left in the forums only as it looks like it's been done by an Nvidia fanboi. :oops:


I still stand by the numbers as I did the normal run 3 times, scan for inconsistencies, average the runs, dump the results into excel.

tl;dr -> 1) No, I am not paid off. 2) GTX 470 is "old" in the review world w/ no fresh changes(until 256 driver release today).


The only game you saw fit to benchmark was HAWX?
How can you actually defend this review without some feeling of either gilt or embarrassment?
I could also make a review and choose one game and come up with the exact opposite conclusion you have.
However with a good review that uses a cross-section of games, it's allot harder to skew the conclusion.

And about the benchmarks, do you expect average Joe to dump a load of $ to run a few benchmarks? No he buys the card to play games!!!
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Gomeler » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:23 am

rhys216 wrote:Very embarrassing for Legit Reviews and Nvidia.
It looks as if LR has sold it's soul to the devil, who ever it was at LR who thought that trading their credibility with Nv was a good idea... is in for a bit of a shock!
MANY other forum members are grabbing their sick buckets, and adding LR to their list 'untrustworthy' review sites, so I seriously don't no how anyone at LR thought this was going to be good for them.

Of course the other option is it is down to Nv and the reviewer 'CM', but still, someone higher than CM must give the review the ok before it's published???


Ahh yes, trading credibility in exchange for... what exactly? Did you get my caravan of GTX 480s and liquid nitrogen?

On a more serious note I am displeased that this review was able to do what you say it is doing regarding tarnishing Nate's reputation. Guess I'll have to win back some brownie points with the upcoming Rampage III Extreme review..

rhys216 wrote:
Gomeler wrote:
I chose one resolution as my 24" monitor is temporarily unavailable and if you have a GTX 470 why would you game at 1280x1024? 1680x1050 was the highest resolution I could support at the time I did the benchmarks for this. I didn't explicitely choose NVIDIA biased benchmarks, I chose repeatable time-demos that support DX11. Unfortunately these are also tessellation heavy benchmarks as that is the new fad with DX11. AMD's RV870 is a great GPU, it has cornered the $300-$700 market for nearly 6 months, but it just isn't that strong in tessellation.


First of all you should have waited until the monitor wasn't temporarily unavailable (why was it unavailable in the first place?).
Secondly, So you didn't think it right to highlight the fact that in tessellation benchmarks Nv Architecture is pretty much able to dedicate all of it's shaders to tessellation processing, but that performance gap soon drops when you add other workload to the card, for example a REAL game!


I am in the middle of moving apartments and the 24" monitor is boxed up along with the vast majority of my other personal belongings. It would appear I shouldn't have spent my weekends playing with this GTX 470 and instead spent it moving my belongings between apartments.
rhys216 wrote:
Gomeler wrote:
mccawpa wrote:I too had to register to voice my surprise. What a crock of sh1t :evil:

I'm a Nvidia fan but this review was cringeworthy to the extreme. Just how much brown nosing did you do to Nvidia to get a free card to test? I really don't want to use the word "test" as it's an affront to other benchmarked tests others have done on this card. [-X


*sigh* card is a loaner, this card has been reviewed to death already, and I decided to have a little fun with it re: overclocking. No, I didn't run a ton of benchmarks, but I tested it pretty thoroughly with software tools that the average joe can acquire with a bit of Google searching and showed that this card just keeps on scaling. Guess that is the last time I attempt to show the overclockability of a VGA to normal people.

Raven1001 wrote:Your review is more acceptable if a bit over done on the TWIMTBP titles, although I suppose you have to pander to some of Nvidia's request, this current review should be taken down IMO, you're getting a load of stick for it on a number of sites, makes your site look like a joke. It should be left in the forums only as it looks like it's been done by an Nvidia fanboi. :oops:


I still stand by the numbers as I did the normal run 3 times, scan for inconsistencies, average the runs, dump the results into excel.

tl;dr -> 1) No, I am not paid off. 2) GTX 470 is "old" in the review world w/ no fresh changes(until 256 driver release today).


The only game you saw fit to benchmark was HAWX?
How can you actually defend this review without some feeling of either gilt or embarrassment?
I could also make a review and choose one game and come up with the exact opposite conclusion you have.
However with a good review that uses a cross-section of games, it's allot harder to skew the conclusion.

And about the benchmarks, do you expect average Joe to dump a load of $ to run a few benchmarks? No he buys the card to play games!!!


I tried to run the Batman Arkham Asylum benchmark but I couldn't get repeatable results from it with FRAPS. The Stalker DX10 benchmark was also all over the place, and the Alien vs Predator DX11 benchmark does a worse job of representing gameplay than 3DMark Vantage. Like I have said before, since the GTX 470 there haven't been any changes in actual performance on the GTX 470. Clearly though you would have been more satisfied if I had effectively reposted the benchmarks that you have seen a dozen times already. I apologize, if I do another GPU review I will conform with the rest of the reviewing world and run the same old benchmarks.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:36 am

Well,

I just talked with Chris on AIM and he is going to throw in the hat after finishing up a motherboard review that he is working on.

in the end though I think this just showed that my heart isn't into reviewing anymore. Sorry about this. I thought I'd have some fun, turns out the unwashed masses would have rather had me repeat the same benchmarks from mid March. I'll wrap up the R3E, should be a pretty comprehensive review, and then I think I'm done. actually no, I'm done. Back to overclocking I go. I just don't have enough time to be writing anything that can be considered of decent quality. once again sorry about this Nate, didn't realize the backlash that would result from it.


Like everyone that has done reviews know they are not easy, time consuming and when you get busy or burnt out it shows in the reviews. I respect Chris for saying that his heart isn't into reviews any longer. Chris doesn't want to damage the respect Legit Reviews has earned over the years and I'm sure he'll still be around here on the forums and doing some crazy LN2 overclocking articles in the future.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:40 am

Gomeler wrote:
rhys216 wrote:I apologize, if I do another GPU review I will conform with the rest of the reviewing world and run the same old benchmarks.

At the end of the day your review put the 470 in an unrealistically good light compared with it's competitors. It would be far better for LR to repost the same benchamrks than be accused of corruption, I mean it's not as if Hawx hasn't been benchmarked enough anyway.

Alternatively how about you do a better review than the other sites and benchmark more games, and take averages (or maybe 5 runs) with the games that you say show inconsistent results.
And above all, draw conclusions that are completely honest, perhaps get a second opinion before the review is published.

Bottom line:
Post good honest reviews (P-off manufactures if you have to), and you (LR) will gain creditability and respect and people will come to LR to read reviews instead of your competitors.
Companies with crap products may start to avoid you, but companies with good products will want to make sure they get a review from LR, and that is how you build a successful and respected review site.

Many Thanks

Rhys
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby Major_A » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:22 am

Well... you guys just forced one of the few people who do "extreme cooling" reviews to resign. Congrats, now the rest of us who enjoy his articles and overclocking expertise will be forced to look at more cookie cutter reviews.

Don't let the boo-hooing masses make you resign. If you don't feel like it is something you want to do any longer then that is a good reason. But letting other people dictate what you are doing shouldn't be the reason. I imagine that it is advantageous to have thick skin when you write up anything on the internet that has your name and thoughts associated with it. Keep in mind though that the people whining and crying here have no accountability other than a fictitious name to drag you down to their level.

I personally think you do a bang up job and I'd hate to see you go.


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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Postby rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:27 am

Just want to say I PM'd Apoptosis and from what he has now told me, I now genuinely believe Legit Reviews are indeed 'legit'.
Further I trust that this review will be cleaned up appropriately at some point also, because as it stands it is simply damaging to LR's.

@Gomeler
If your actually 'legit' then my apologies also for my accusations, but your next revision/review needs to be greatly improved from this.

Kind Regards

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