ATI's Radeon X1900 Video Card Series Part II

A place to give your thoughts on our reviews!

ATI's Radeon X1900 Video Card Series Part II

Postby Apoptosis » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:57 am

Armed with a faster dual core processor, we take a deeper look at the performance of the ATI Radeon X1900 video cards. We take the fastest enthusiast video cards from ATI and nVidia and benchmark them on the leading game titiles and 3DMark05/3DMark06 to show you where your hard earned money should be spent.

F.E.A.R. Benchmarking Results:
Image

Article Title: ATI's Radeon X1900 Video Card Series Part II
Live Pricing: ATI X1900 Series
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Postby sbohdan » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:29 am

the review is very nice, allthough I have to say I would never spend my hard-earned money on any of these ridiculously overpriced cards and to prevent overpricing - no one else should either :x
Image
my complete GFX tuneup & cooling mod: viewtopic.php?t=3263&highlight=
User avatar
sbohdan
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Canada

Postby Apoptosis » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:03 am

Although many will side with you there are an equal number who rack up credit cards and/or have money in the family that are buying these up! Plus we all read and dream of these high end cards!
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Postby Bio-Hazard » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:15 am

sbohdan wrote:the review is very nice, allthough I have to say I would never spend my hard-earned money on any of these ridiculously overpriced cards and to prevent overpricing - no one else should either :x


I agree with you 100%, although, I'd love to have a X1900XTX, I just can't see going into dept for one............ :shock: When you're living on a fixed income, those extreme prices are really hard to justify.
User avatar
Bio-Hazard
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Back Woods Of MO.

Postby Bwall » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:27 am

I've never spent more than $400 on a video card, but I am so impressed by the X1900's that I would consider springing for the X1900XT.
Bwall
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:22 am
Location: St. Louis

Postby kenc51 » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:37 am

Apoptosis wrote:Although many will side with you there are an equal number who rack up credit cards and/or have money in the family that are buying these up! Plus we all read and dream of these high end cards!


"electronics envy"........:)

I spent over $500 on my GTX....all I play @ the 'mo is UT2004 for 20mins @ a time......and I'm thinking of going SLI in the next month or two!

If they build them, we will buy them ;)
User avatar
kenc51
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 5166
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland

Postby Apoptosis » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:38 am

You got it :)
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Postby sbohdan » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:22 am

Apoptosis wrote:Although many will side with you there are an equal number who rack up credit cards and/or have money in the family that are buying these up! Plus we all read and dream of these high end cards!


It's not that I wouldn't like to have one. I just think that it's way overpriced. you don't see a loaf of bread being sold for a $1000 just because there are some who would pay that much. I love new technology and gadgets but prices of gfx cards went totally out of control in recent years and I see no reason why? few years ago a top of the line card was $150 and now you pay $900. if you want crossfire or SLI of the same, it's twice as much. I just think it's totally unreasonable, therefore outrageous :x
Image
my complete GFX tuneup & cooling mod: viewtopic.php?t=3263&highlight=
User avatar
sbohdan
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Canada

Postby Apoptosis » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:27 am

sbohdan wrote:few years ago a top of the line card was $150 and now you pay $900. if you want crossfire or SLI of the same, it's twice as much. I just think it's totally unreasonable, therefore outrageous :x


Not true... Let's go back over 4 years ago when ATI launched the ATI Radeon 8500!

"Given that the technology-leading RADEON 8500 graphics board was unveiled worldwide on August 14, 2001, with an MSRP of (US) $399 and, further, that it was originally introduced with a core clock speed of 250 MHz, (megahertz) but will now ship at 275 MHz, ATI has, once again, over-delivered on its commitment to its customers," said Toshi Okumura, Senior Product Manager, RADEON 8500, Desktop Marketing, ATI Technologies Inc.


So back in 2001 the fastest card from ATI cost $399. Look at the price of lumber, gas, housing, or medical cost increases from 2001 to 2006. Nearly everything has doubled and so it seems that video cards have also, but only in line with nearly everything else.

Now don't get me wrong I don't think these cards should cost that much and I see your point 100%, but don't forget to look at other things and take that into consideration also.
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Postby Bio-Hazard » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:46 am

If I remember right I paid like $200 for my 8500, $270 for my 9500 and well over $300 for my 9800............. :shock: My X800XL was basicly free, got it in a trade, it had a broken cooling fan on it when I got it.

But I think prices are going up faster on video cards than alot of other stuff......... :(
User avatar
Bio-Hazard
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Back Woods Of MO.

Postby sbohdan » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:47 am

allright. it just freaks me out when they ask $1800 for an SLI or crossfire setup. and for that price all you get is 2 video cards that will be outdated in few months and unplayable in couple of years...
Image
my complete GFX tuneup & cooling mod: viewtopic.php?t=3263&highlight=
User avatar
sbohdan
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Canada

Postby kenc51 » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:02 pm

Nice review wickedld9 BTW...... ;)
User avatar
kenc51
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 5166
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland

Postby Apoptosis » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:07 pm

sbohdan wrote:allright. it just freaks me out when they ask $1800 for an SLI or crossfire setup. and for that price all you get is 2 video cards that will be outdated in few months and unplayable in couple of years...


Exactly!
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

CPU Bound?

Postby JohnnyVic » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:41 pm

Comparing with Part I, did you determine whether the cards were CPU limited?

Looking at the Doom 3 1280x1024 4x/8x/HQ test, you increased the CPU speed by 9.1% and saw a 7.3% increase in framerate for the X1900XTX (80.7 to 86.6 fps).

That tells me that the previous CPU was not holding back the graphics card significantly. If the CPU was holding the card back I would expect to see a 15-20% (or more) increase in FPS. Of course this is all conjecture since no one knows exactly how the work is divided between the CPU and GPU.
JohnnyVic
Legit User
Legit User
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:25 pm

Re: CPU Bound?

Postby Bwall » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:02 pm

JohnnyVic wrote:Comparing with Part I, did you determine whether the cards were CPU limited?

Looking at the Doom 3 1280x1024 4x/8x/HQ test, you increased the CPU speed by 9.1% and saw a 7.3% increase in framerate for the X1900XTX (80.7 to 86.6 fps).

That tells me that the previous CPU was not holding back the graphics card significantly. If the CPU was holding the card back I would expect to see a 15-20% (or more) increase in FPS. Of course this is all conjecture since no one knows exactly how the work is divided between the CPU and GPU.


Yes and no. The main focus was how performance was with one of the fastest dual core processors on the market.
Yes because we see that we gained performance in some tests.
No: Because we used a dual core processor it was small step up in frequency but it's hard to compare what the differences are due to dual core driver support.
Another issue is the average frames per second testing method. As it stands it's great for comparing grapics cards but when comparing CPU scaling in graphics cards it's unlikely that our numbers would reflect much of a change. In a graphics intensive game (the games we test) a faster CPU will almost always provide higher minimum frame rates, but the % increase will not scale directly on the average fps. This also depends on the game and video card tested.

I'm working on single core scaling vs. dual core scaling with mixed frequencies and you should expect to see an article coming in the next couple of weeks that will clearly answer this question.
Bwall
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:22 am
Location: St. Louis

More costs than you think

Postby BiGg RiE » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:52 am

Most of us who upgraded recently, have an sli capable rig. That means that in order to get the ati offering we would have to upgrade; mobo, ram, and cpu to use the ati cards. When you add that to the 1100 for the ati cards that price difference shrinks considerably.

Not to mention the time it takes to build a new system from the ground up. I mean sure if you slap the system together with no thought of cable management it takes less time but then you've got a supper hot rig with the best components that is in fact super hot when it comes to temp., which will hender your performance due to the heat issues.

When I built my asus sli-premium rig it was the hotest mobo out at the time. It's still a great mobo but the fact is that there will always be a bigger & better deal interms of performance.

I personally went with the 7800GT model card, and can run every game out right now with settings maxed and great frame rates including FEAR. now when I'm ready to get that SLI pumping through my system i can complete the package for less than $300. When I run the performance test in the FEAR options menu I get an average FPS of 68, with a low of 54 & a high of 88.

I was a loyal ati supporter from my "ATI Rage 128Pro" to my "Radeon 9800 Pro" until ati dropped that ball and Nvidia recovered the fumble & ran for an 88fps touchdown. Now ati is back with a worthy showing finally, and it's just to little to late as far as I'm concerned. And yes I have soft shadows enabled in FEAR.

Asus SLI- Premium
Athlon 64 3500+
2GB DDR400
2xWD 3GB's 120 Raid 0
7800GT Stock
Xp Pro Spk2

Nice rig specs sbohdan & kenc51.
System:
Lian-Li PC-A70A(blk)
Gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev1.0
i7 930 @3.5Ghz
18GB = (3x4GB Gskill)+(3x2GB Gskill) @ 1600Mhz 8-8-8-20-2n
2 x XFX 5770 1GB in x-Fire
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
500GB OS Drive WD 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Cooler Master 750Watt / Thermal Take 250Watt mini (5.25Bay)
37" 1080p LCD / 22" LCD / 19" LCD
Logitech G15
Sicuro 5.1 Surround Sound System
Novint Falcon w/Pistol Grip
Wolf King Trooper

"You must have very big rat, u need Hottori Hanzo's steel."
User avatar
BiGg RiE
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:23 am

Re: More costs than you think

Postby Bwall » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:10 am

BiGg RiE wrote:Most of us who upgraded recently, have an sli capable rig. That means that in order to get the ati offering we would have to upgrade; mobo, ram, and cpu to use the ati cards. When you add that to the 1100 for the ati cards that price difference shrinks considerably.

Not to mention the time it takes to build a new system from the ground up. I mean sure if you slap the system together with no thought of cable management it takes less time but then you've got a supper hot rig with the best components that is in fact super hot when it comes to temp., which will hender your performance due to the heat issues.

When I built my asus sli-premium rig it was the hotest mobo out at the time. It's still a great mobo but the fact is that there will always be a bigger & better deal interms of performance.

I personally went with the 7800GT model card, and can run every game out right now with settings maxed and great frame rates including FEAR. now when I'm ready to get that SLI pumping through my system i can complete the package for less than $300. When I run the performance test in the FEAR options menu I get an average FPS of 68, with a low of 54 & a high of 88.

I was a loyal ati supporter from my "ATI Rage 128Pro" to my "Radeon 9800 Pro" until ati dropped that ball and Nvidia recovered the fumble & ran for an 88fps touchdown. Now ati is back with a worthy showing finally, and it's just to little to late as far as I'm concerned. And yes I have soft shadows enabled in FEAR.

Asus SLI- Premium
Athlon 64 3500+
2GB DDR400
2xWD 3GB's 120 Raid 0
7800GT Stock
Xp Pro Spk2

Nice rig specs sbohdan & kenc51.


I'm not sure why you're saying you need to upgrade RAM and CPU to get CrossFire working? SLI and CrossFire both use PC3200 and a 939 Athlon 64 CPU. The Asus A8R-MVP is an excellent CrossFire motherboard and can be found for $105.
Bwall
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:22 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: More costs than you think

Postby Apoptosis » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:52 am

BiGg RiE wrote:I was a loyal ati supporter from my "ATI Rage 128Pro" to my "Radeon 9800 Pro" until ati dropped that ball and Nvidia recovered the fumble & ran for an 88fps touchdown. Now ati is back with a worthy showing finally, and it's just to little to late as far as I'm concerned.


How did you miss out on the Radeon 8500? That was a great card! I had a Rage Pro and went to the GeForce MX-200 and then the Radeon 8500 and man did that card OC and when the good drivers came out I was a happy camper.

If you have an AMD SLI rig you will have to pay to change back to ATI's CrossFire platform, but those who are Intel i955X or i975X chipsets can convert without changing mobo/memory/cpu
User avatar
Apoptosis
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33002
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Postby -mogwai » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:26 am

pure pwnage
Image
-mogwai
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
 
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:16 pm
Location: st. louis, mo

Re: More costs than you think

Postby BiGg RiE » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:07 pm

wickedld9 wrote:
BiGg RiE wrote:Most of us who upgraded recently, have an sli capable rig. That means that in order to get the ati offering we would have to upgrade; mobo, ram, and cpu to use the ati cards. When you add that to the 1100 for the ati cards that price difference shrinks considerably.

Not to mention the time it takes to build a new system from the ground up. I mean sure if you slap the system together with no thought of cable management it takes less time but then you've got a supper hot rig with the best components that is in fact super hot when it comes to temp., which will hender your performance due to the heat issues.

When I built my asus sli-premium rig it was the hotest mobo out at the time. It's still a great mobo but the fact is that there will always be a bigger & better deal interms of performance.

I personally went with the 7800GT model card, and can run every game out right now with settings maxed and great frame rates including FEAR. now when I'm ready to get that SLI pumping through my system i can complete the package for less than $300. When I run the performance test in the FEAR options menu I get an average FPS of 68, with a low of 54 & a high of 88.

I was a loyal ati supporter from my "ATI Rage 128Pro" to my "Radeon 9800 Pro" until ati dropped that ball and Nvidia recovered the fumble & ran for an 88fps touchdown. Now ati is back with a worthy showing finally, and it's just to little to late as far as I'm concerned. And yes I have soft shadows enabled in FEAR.

Asus SLI- Premium
Athlon 64 3500+
2GB DDR400
2xWD 3GB's 120 Raid 0
7800GT Stock
Xp Pro Spk2

Nice rig specs sbohdan & kenc51.


I'm not sure why you're saying you need to upgrade RAM and CPU to get CrossFire working? SLI and CrossFire both use PC3200 and a 939 Athlon 64 CPU. The Asus A8R-MVP is an excellent CrossFire motherboard and can be found for $105.


The CPU was a mistake, and I was under the impression that Crossfire was only compatible with DDR2, you kinda killed a big part of my argument. However, the fact still stands that after shelling out $XXX amount of hard erned doh on an upgrade, now ati comes with the heat. they sure did take there sweet time. and the x1800's were a waist of time.
System:
Lian-Li PC-A70A(blk)
Gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev1.0
i7 930 @3.5Ghz
18GB = (3x4GB Gskill)+(3x2GB Gskill) @ 1600Mhz 8-8-8-20-2n
2 x XFX 5770 1GB in x-Fire
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
500GB OS Drive WD 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Cooler Master 750Watt / Thermal Take 250Watt mini (5.25Bay)
37" 1080p LCD / 22" LCD / 19" LCD
Logitech G15
Sicuro 5.1 Surround Sound System
Novint Falcon w/Pistol Grip
Wolf King Trooper

"You must have very big rat, u need Hottori Hanzo's steel."
User avatar
BiGg RiE
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:23 am

Next

Return to Legit Reviews Review Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests