Why all the fuss about temps??

[Merlin]

This is prbably the stupidest question you guys have heard all year but here goes. On AMD's website they list the max teperature for the BArton 2500+ at 85'C. My new mother board has an overheat CPU protection feature that will turn of the PC before CPU damage, and the lowest you can set it to is 75'C. Assuming that AMD is right and Abit knows a CPU won't blow until temps rise above 75'C. Then please tell me why I was, or am, depending on your answer, about to spend over $100, and have someone cut a hole in a new $150 case all to lower my CPU temperature from 46'C to 36'C. If you tell me its for performance I would really like to see some Benches that might convince me that my money might not be better spent on a Faster stock CPU rather than trying like the devil to keep my overclocked on cool.

[T-Shirt]

all electronics work better, and last longer at lower temps.
While modern processors can survive 75ºC for a while they're much happier below 40ºC
since tempature rise can be nearly instant (in human terms 1-4 seconds is too fast to deal with) having as much 'cushion' as possible seems the best idea.
If you think you're "overcooling" you could get a baybus to slow the fans to a quieter speed, and still stay in the safe range.

[capper5016]

What in the world is going to cost you $100?!! If someone is charging you that much to cut a whole in your case, make sure they kiss you while their at it!
All CPUs can handle high temps, it just seriously shortens their lives and affects not just there performance, but the performance and stability of your whole system. Why do you think cooling is such a big deal? why do you think i spend hours on end researching and modding my case to get the coolest temps possible? why do you think so many people have modded their caes, gone to water, or used phase change to cool their systems?
Heat is the enemy of all electronic components, not just your CPU.
If you don't want to cut the hole, or spend $100, i would recommend some ducting, there are some interesting solutions out there, among them is a solution that runs a section of tubing from an intake fan to the cpu fan/heat sink, thereby bringing fresh air to the CPU and not recirculating the warm case air.
Another solution is to do what i did, just run your computer without the side panel on. I even made a mod out of that and zip tied a 92mm fan to the bottom of the PSU mount that blew cool air onto the CPU and the mosfets.
For about $200, you can quash the whole thing and buy an external W/C kit like the Corsair EX 200 or the CoolerMaster Aquagate, an interesting idea as it is a Cool Master product and fits in two of your drive bays

[Merlin]

The hole was/is free the $ 100 is for an Aerogate II fan controller, 1 panaflo 120mm fan, 1 thermalright heat sink, 1 panaflo 92mm fan , and finally 4 new panaflo 80mm case fans since the fans I have don't seem to move that much air. I asked you about the ducting and I don't recall your answer. My idea was to put an 80mm fan in the door/side pannel and run a duct from it to the heatsink. The hole is the least of my worries. I have spent about $900 in the last 8 months and I thought I was done until I asked about temps. Every respnose I got was about more fans more holes better heat sinks etc. I know cooler is better but how far should I go to stay below 40' if the whole shootin match will be outdated in the next 12 months? Will a PC work well in the 45-50' range for 12 months or more?

[Merlin]

I realize that cooler is better but I think some if not most of the rage in case mods and extereme cooling is done for the fun of it. How fast can you make your PC go and still keep it cool. I understand that and if I had the money, tools, time, and space to do that , I would but I think sometimes a guy like me comes into a forum like this just trying to make the processor I could afford at the time ran like the one I wanted but couldn't afford. Here I am two months later and with the money I've spent so far I could have bought the XP3200+ retail package with a 3 year guaranty and I would be running faster than I am now. I guess what I am saying is that I know and understand why you do what you do but all the posts you guys do can give someone the wrong idea. Case in point: I was just looking though the post and saw yours about your water system, under one of the pictures you wrote that at 3.9GHZ your temps were 37'C or so and that at that temp you could not play games etc. I don't know why that is but it made me think I had to get my temps lower and so I start thinking about spending more money to get lower temps when in actual fact my system will probably work fine at 50'C until long after the CPU is way outdated. You asked whaT we want to see in case/cooling forum and for my part I just want to know what is practical and doable for the avarage user. I want to play games on a cool looking system that doesn't lag. Please don't missunderstand, I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me and I realize that if you all weren't always pushing the envelope for the same reason we landed on the moon in 1969 you wouldn't have as many answers as you do and the tech. wouldn't advance. Just try to keep in mind that a lot of the people that read this forum are not pioneers and won't even ask questions they will just read what you say and act on that without knowing who you said it to and why.

[capper5016]

Its strange, but i try to answer your questions, and it seems that you miss that part of a post or don't understand. I wrote a bit about ducting and how there are kits out there that don't require any cutting or case modding.
As to temps, several of us have told you that your temps are too high, borderline bad. I told you that I personally don't have alot of experience with AMD CPUs, but I told you I would research it for you. I told you what i found was that everyone recommended keeping the load temps under 50C (yours were over,52C).
You have to understand, temps affect performance, and the lifespan of your components. Your mobo, video card, RAM, and CPU are all susceptible. And while you think $100 of preventitive maintainaence now is expensive, it is nowhere near as expensive as replacing any one of those components in a couple of weeks/months when they burn up.
i think the reason alot of us recommended some of this stuff was that you mentioned over clocking, any overclocking requires more than normal cooling. I think the Thermalright is a great heat sink, IMO, the best. I mounted a 92 mm panaflo on it and it was awesome.... to be honest. That is all I would add, if you O/C, take the cover off so it gets good cool air. If you are worried about cost, don't replace the case fans, don't buy a fan controller. Buy the most important part, see what kind of affect it has, if you are happy, fine, if not....buy the next part....etc
As to buying a prefabbed system, Alot of people do that because they think they are better computers, what they don't understand is that those builder take several shortcuts. 3 very good components, one bad one.....making systems so they aren't upgradeable, etc.
As to my system, 39GHz is a pretty big O/C for a 3.2 that burns extremely hot, my problem isn't even the CPU, it is the voltage irregularity in my system, the ASUS voltage droop is a well known problem, and seriously affects performance at that level. what I am going to do is replace the ASUS with a supermodded ABIT IC7

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_prod ... e=CP-BAS80

http://www.crazypc.com

[grunt]

my cpu cooks my breakfast for me :wink:

[capper5016]

My cpu isn't the problem, my problem is the mosfets, they get smoking hot. i fabbed a couple of coolers for them, it dropped the temps abit, but i'm waiting for these coolers from Micro-cool. i have seen other reviews that claim they drop temps 7-10C. I think sometimes people don't look at the effects of heat on the overall system, just the cpu....remember, heat is our enemy

[Merlin]

Hey guys,
I ralize that my last post sounded a tad hostile and I appologize. Part of my problem is that I never really intended on getting this deep into modding and overclocking. My original idea was to get my 2800+ to perform like the 3200+ that I really wanted and in my haste to accomplish that I rushed into territory I had no business in yet. I had a substandard PSU and that led me to believe that I had blown my 2800+ (OEM to save $) with no warranty. Part of the reasom I thought I had blown it is that the last temp reading I saw was 58'C and rising. Based on what I had heard that was way to hot. I DID NOT ASK and you guys did say that you had not heard of a CPU blowing that way I thought mine had. When I put my old CPU back on the motherboard it worked fine so I waited 1 day and then I tried the 2800 again after reseting CMOS. I got a two tone beep signal and no post. I changed back to my old one and got a BIOS BOOT lock error from the MOBO which MSI said meant I had a bad BIOS chip and they were going to send me another. That was all on Thurs. and I couldn't wait so I bought a new MOBO and called AMD and when they agreed to replace the CPU even though I had no warranty I was so excited I jumped on it. Now come to find out my PSU was the problem the whole time so I feel sure I gave AMD a perfectly good 2800 for a 2500 because of my own ignorance. So I am mad at myself for spending over $150 trying to get a 2800 to run like a 3200 when by now I could have just bougght the damn 3200 and been better of than I am now.MOst of this is my own stupid fault for not telling you guys what my intentions in overclocking were then you could have told me to go buy the 3200 and leave overclocking to you pros but I am addicted now so I better quit crying over the broken eggs and start on my omelette.

[capper5016]

LOL, it is addictive. You are doing okay!!!! The best way to learn, albeit not the cheapest, is trial and error, and experimenting.
Just as a thought, you might try contacting AMD and asking them about that CPU, if there was nothing wrong with it and it was the mobo, they should send it back to you. But who knows.
As to the rest, don't frey the small stuff, you are actually a very nice guy, and I know that I, and i'm sure everyone else, are glad to help in anyway possible. Sometimes people get frustrated, some times people go over the edge, but I'll stick with you and help as much as possible, for as long as you need help. Thats why i'm here.
As to overclocking, Infinite is working on a guide to help people like you who are starting out, i would laso like to point out a guide I saw elsewhere that might help you understand what you are doing, along witrh the benefits and drawbacks of doing it. Soon enough you'll be well on your way and laughing about all this.... or throwing your computer out a window and taking up beads or something.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/

I really don't like the group of people, they are pretty full of themselves, don't know any more than the people here, and always like to flame guys like you who might have a legit question that someone kinda answered about 2 yrs ago. but they do have some good ideas and posts.

[Merlin]

Thanks I'll go have a look. Just an update. I switched out my fans and put the faster adjustable fan on the Heatsink and I put in the I/O slot fan and changed out the rear blower fan with a faster one from my old case. New idle temps with the CPU fan on lowest is 42'C when I turn it up to full speed its load as hell but temps drop to 31'C. When I game I wear headphones anyway so I'll just jack up the fan speed to high for load and down to low for surfing ther net etc. It will work for now. I'm running my 2500 at 2.2GHZ@1.719 volts not bad I'd say.

[Merlin]

The fan mounting bracket for the I/O slot on this case is way too restrictive its like fine wire mesh. Any ideas on how to mount a fan in it without that shroud? Capper you have one of these WAve masters right?

[infinitevalence]

Now were talking. Thats the kind of tempretue and speed we like to see around here. Not only did you reduce the temps on your cpu but you were able to overclock. I hope your starting to see why we emphisize cooling as much as we do. Heat, like capper said, is the enemy. It makes the system unstable, increases power consumption, decreases the life of your parts, and it risks the funy magic smoke and burning electronics smell. Look for your preformance/noise sweets spot. that way you can listen to the sounds around you with out the roar of your computer. just try to keep your OC temps below 50c load and you will be golden.