New Mushkin Memory Heat Spreaders

Bio-Hazard · Post by **Bio-Hazard** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:33 am

LOL.....you can buy retail water cooled ram sinks.......not the best idea due to the different socket spacing, but it's out there already.

Bio-Hazard · Post by **Bio-Hazard** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:37 am

Here's just one quick example I found real quick

http://www.directron.com/aframcooler.html

Bio-Hazard · Post by **Bio-Hazard** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:19 am

Just doing a little water cooling surfing and came across this one, it's a brand new model this month. It works great on DFI LanParty type of systems.................

http://www.watercooling.de/catalog/prod ... s_id=29627

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:14 pm

^^^

^^^

hmmm, can you say "overkill"?

LOL, jk, there's NEVER such a thing as overkill while overclocking!!!!!!!!

Post by **Apoptosis** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:22 pm

Those RAM Freezer water blocks look tight as heck. All billet and with the allen head bolts it really does look top notch.

I know they have them on the market overseas I was trying to say it would be nice for a memory company to come out with some that work with their coolers... good find on the RAM Freezers

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:33 pm

So someone with alot of money should build a completely nitrogen cooled system and make us all grovel to its OC-ed godliness...

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:17 pm

hell yeah, if only that were easy to come by......

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:54 am

Hopefully Kinston and others are reading this thread.......

There is a market for Extreme and many over the top solutions..

What I was trying to say in previous post and what i think Apoptosis was to say is....

Aftermarket Solutions are great, Problem is that with say the above H2O solution, You void your warranty.

DFI and now Saphire etc. are making boards with the enthusiast in mind...
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2481

What we need is Kingston and others to bring out a "ready made" products with will allow us to pump up the volts to say 4v WITHOUT voiding the warranty

We all are willing to pay for the products (ultra low latency proves this)..
The companies already screen their BH* chips, best goto the ddr500 rams, Why not screen again for stability under extreme volts

If the IC's are kept very cool, then I'd bet there would be more RMA's from the UTT rams with standard heatspreaders (58% more surface area or not!)

We need this solution soon as AMD are gonna switch to DDR2 next year

Apoptosis, Next time your are speaking to theese memory companies... :wink wink:

It's the enthusiast who pushes the boundries, which in turn pushes R&D in companies like Kingston.....

We will soon see all H2O cooled systems
H2O cooled PSU's have being around for a while now
Mayby Dell will make a new system, Runs refrigerant and is TOTALLY H2O cooled? ..... Yeah and Intel will unlock ALL multipliers, pigs will fly etc.....

Post by **Apoptosis** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:50 am

I'll be with the Kingston next week and have meetings with the entire crew. From the PR team to the MAN in charge of their HyperX/Value Ram line. I do not foresee Kingston getting involved in the UTT high voltage race though. Actually I'd be willing to bet on it. I was just out at Kingston's HQ late June 2005 in LA and in a meeting with John Tu (The Co-Owner) the high voltage memory line is not something Kingston Technology is interested in pursuing. Right now they are working on their new China Fab and increasing their Flash memory line.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:12 am

Good to know
@ least Kingston have their Goals and are sticking to them
With their new FAB, once fully operational and the fact they are building it, could mean they do something like this with DDR2

Mayby the next CBIT or what ever
I'm sure you get opertunities to speak to PR people in companies like OCZ
Heck, Bet you this isn't the only thread on the web regarding this
The powers that be, may already have a new product in the making!

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:33 am

Ken's right, it people like you Apop, the ones who actually can have an audience in the form of RAM and mainboard manufacturers, that can push upper management to implement more R&D in what they do, and can push out some spectacular products. I seriously can't wait for the day that water cooling, hell, even Nitrogen cooling, could come down to the price of air. That's when the floodgates will open, and we can have systems where we can run them like the old Macs (mid/late 90's), where they ran everything the same speed: CPU and RAM FSB, data bus, they all ran the same speed as the processor, which is why they were (and still are) touted as the best graphical computers around. Really, really can't wait for that day.

Post by **Apoptosis** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:38 am

The powers that be, may already have a new product in the making!

I am under the impression that you would be correct.

Post by **Apoptosis** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:57 am

Just got off the phone with Brian Flood who is the R&D guru over at Mushkin and he said the 58% surface area increase is in the heat spreader itself and is for one module not both.

He stated that on the old mushkin heat spreaders that on the top of the module the heat spreader actually sat on the memory PCB, so its bottom couldn't be counted as "surface area". On the new heat spreaders nothing touches the top of the PCB so the entire top and bottom arch on the new Mushkin Atomic heat spreaders can be counted as surface area.

The additional height of the module combined with the bottom of the top and the little cut outs on the side do indeed add up to 58% per module.

I still don't see a 58% increase visually and I am nearly 100% positive that temperatures wont decrease 58% due to the new heat spreader.

Innovation always needs to be picked on, so we gave Mushkin some pretty good feedback.

This reminds me of my Biology/Chemistry classes in college... if you know the outcome you want all you have to do is adjust the numbers till you get it. In this case certain areas were dropped out for one reason or another and I'm sure their math is correct, but we all know deep down inside what is going on. In the end that is all that matters right?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:00 am

tells ya how they can manipulate numbers to pull off sales; I guess the recent divestiture of the company has left them something to be desired in the profits pool

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:11 am

Apoptosis wrote:Innovation always needs to be picked on, so we gave Mushkin some pretty good feedback.

Who's next

lets put the world to rest in 1 thread !

Actually - I wanna se the likes of Corsair and OCZ showing some innovation!
Corsair have their "pro" series, LED's are cool but don't allow the RAM to go faster! They are supposedly the biggest?
All it takes is 1 company to take a chance. If they get it right, their sorted.

Look at the water cooling companies. They know they can charge us ~$70 for a waterblock because it runs your cpu degrees lower than a ~$40 - $50 block.
why not offer RAM with innovative cooling in low numbers (limited edtion), This will show if there is actually a market?

Anyway.......

Post by **Apoptosis** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:36 am

I have spoken to many memory companies on the issue and one MAJOR issue is MSI motherboards... the Dual Channel slots are touching... no water blocks, thicker heat spreaders, or finned heat spreaders will work in this slots. MSI is a tier one mobo maker so Mushkin, Corsair, OCZ have to walk a fine line because they don't want consumers to avoid MSI boards if they already have memory and don't want to buy new.

Too many factors are in play in a very small industry... Intel, AMD, SIS, ULI all have a say in memory not to mention the JEDEC board and then the mobo makers who do the layout and voltages... UTT would be nothing if DFI didn't come out with a higher voltage rail... OCZ would be out hundreds of thousands if not a couple million dollars in sales if DFI never produced their latest boards. It's a big risk and unless you are friends with every company and even then it's very risky.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:41 am

Well Apop, I hate to say it, but after my experience with the KT6V-LSR, I'm completely turned off by MSI's offerings. I used to always go with Asus to build customer units, but I decided to try something different as my last customer wanted a cheap solution, boy were we both taken for a ride! DFI and Asus have it right (though I lean more toward DFI), so I think it's time MSI got it right, there's a mutual give and take involved, it's the only way you can not be perfect in the industry and still have a decent sales volume.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:38 am

Completly see your point Apoptosis.

But since you say UTT ram is nothing without the DFI mobo (and now the new ATI one), Heck we are talking about a niche market.
Just like the one for UTT ram.

People who get UTT ram Don't buy MSI! (unless with a OCZ ddr booster)
MSI people get TCCD Ram.

Heck OCZ created some of the market for hi-volt RAM with the Booster!

OCZ (and Corsair) CAN release "limited" edition Modules, which will not work with MSI, because they know their customers read reviews etc.

Also MSI are not the only Tier 1 company who have probs - Some mobos were/are made with little clearance arround the CPU, Yet people read reviews and check first b4 buying large HSF's

Many HSF combos like the Zalmans advise you to check for compatabilty b4 buying (they also exceed intel/amd recomendations), Yet people still buy their product

If the problem is that the memory companies are afraid of peeing off teir 1 companies, then the whole industry is screwed! The likes of Corsair are so big they don't have to worry about this as as i said its a niche market and the bulk of all sales will be for "standard" ram.
Remember there will not big BIG numbers of theese products sold. Low latency Ram is still kind of a niche market, Remember most preople still air cool thier cpu's. So if we are talking about water colled ram then it will be a big upgrade for alot of people.

The companies could even do it as a marketting ploy!
Release it during QuakeCon of something?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:54 am

I agree too ken, personally top-end memory manufacturers such as OCZ and Corsair should be less concerned with the tier 1's and concentrate more so on performance mainboard manufacturers such as DFI. Compatibility would be much better, thus the product would be more stable for the mainboard it goes with.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:19 am

killswitch83 wrote:I agree too ken, personally top-end memory manufacturers such as OCZ and Corsair should be less concerned with the tier 1's and concentrate more so on performance mainboard manufacturers such as DFI. Compatibility would be much better, thus the product would be more stable for the mainboard it goes with.

Exactly!!

90% of ram sold by companies are cas 3,3,3 (jedec spec), or worse
5% would be "low" latency (cas 2.5,3,3,5)
he rest is "Ultra Low" -> the likes of TCCD
All theese can conform to the standard size restrictions and keep MSI happy

Less than 1% of ram is UTT (marketted as pc4000)
OCZ have thier UTT market with the GX and VX series

We the comsumers are willing to pay the premium already for theese.
Why not release the point 2% of UTT which can scale to DDR600 @ ~3.8V
They can add on another price premium as I'm sure extra testing will be needed.

Heck I have a P4 setup and run OCZ plat rev2 RAM, I know latency means nothing in the real world with Intel, i still bought it!

To be honest, I think i have made my point clear, If any Ram companies are reading this, then pls take it on board
It's like flogging a dead horse,

I STILL CAN'T SEE A ~50% INCREASE IN SURFACE AREA IN THOSE HEATSPREADERS EITHER !!