http://congress.org/congressorg/issues/ ... ngress=108
http://congress.org/congressorg/issues/ ... ngress=108
While i am interested in a two year national service this seems limited to military. they suggest that there will be other options but i think this is two years manditory service with noting in return. If they want to slip a draft in after the eledtion and after our government screwed up. I for one will be pissed. I think its rediculus that you and i have to bail out our government for its shortsighted actions. Not that either canidate is going to read this but restassured that i will be writing letter to my representitives and senitors.
For the rest of you sound off i want to know what people think. I think i would feel better about this if they gave us free college or something like that. then maybe i would not feel as though this is a bail out.
Drat!!!! this is for real! two bills S89 and H163
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infinitevalence
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Drat!!!! this is for real! two bills S89 and H163
"Don't open that! It's an alien planet! Is there air? You don't know!"
I went to college and played baseball before joining the service, while i had a blast I was a rather lost soul.
I will tell anyone that my time in the military was the very best and very worst of my life, but that I am a much better person for it. It gives you direction, motivation, and opens your eyes to alot of things. You will gain a totally different perspective on life and the world than what you are told in the media or by a teacher.
I think conscription is a great idea, let people serve for two years, and pay for their trade school/college. Make comabat arms voluntary, let the people who just want an education serve in support roles and get some schooling while in service. There are alot of countries that use conscription with great success.
I will tell anyone that my time in the military was the very best and very worst of my life, but that I am a much better person for it. It gives you direction, motivation, and opens your eyes to alot of things. You will gain a totally different perspective on life and the world than what you are told in the media or by a teacher.
I think conscription is a great idea, let people serve for two years, and pay for their trade school/college. Make comabat arms voluntary, let the people who just want an education serve in support roles and get some schooling while in service. There are alot of countries that use conscription with great success.
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Wolfgang70
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Bad idea. It's a draft by another name.
Capper,
I respect your view and thank you for your service. I truely do. Having said that, do you think you would hold true to that statement if military service were forced upon you? Military service does help a lot of people and helps to give them purpose but not everyone needs it and it would be wrong to require it of everyone.
Also, those countries that have conscription also have things like a free education system or state sponsored health care.
Honestly? The only people I think should be forced to serve their country are the criminals. Take those who are looking at a 10 year sentence and tell them they can serve the 10 or they can go into the military for two years. They are the ones in need of the kind of help the military can give. Structure, discipline, motivation.
My 2 cents.
Capper,
I respect your view and thank you for your service. I truely do. Having said that, do you think you would hold true to that statement if military service were forced upon you? Military service does help a lot of people and helps to give them purpose but not everyone needs it and it would be wrong to require it of everyone.
Also, those countries that have conscription also have things like a free education system or state sponsored health care.
Honestly? The only people I think should be forced to serve their country are the criminals. Take those who are looking at a 10 year sentence and tell them they can serve the 10 or they can go into the military for two years. They are the ones in need of the kind of help the military can give. Structure, discipline, motivation.
My 2 cents.
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Apoptosis
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I actually think Wolfgang70's comments are interesting. Instead of paying to lock people up in over crowded jail cells and giving them cable TV and meals for years on end why not put them in the service for a bit. Not only would they learn a trade, but they would also be shown the military structre/lifestyle.
I don't think we should put the murders and rapists in the armed forces by any means, but those people serving 1-5 years for minor felonies or drug charges should be put directly into boot camp and to the front lines. I think that would make people think twice about commiting crimes.
If it happened think of the anti-drug commercials...
"one day I was in my urban home making meth for my upper middle class friends, and after I was caught selling/making meth I was in the military on the front lines in Iraq."
I don't think we should put the murders and rapists in the armed forces by any means, but those people serving 1-5 years for minor felonies or drug charges should be put directly into boot camp and to the front lines. I think that would make people think twice about commiting crimes.
If it happened think of the anti-drug commercials...
"one day I was in my urban home making meth for my upper middle class friends, and after I was caught selling/making meth I was in the military on the front lines in Iraq."
See, we're getting off topic, but they are great ideas. We need federal healthcare. the reason it won't happen is we have become the evil empire run by big business (God, I sound like a liberal). Health care companies will never go for it.
I think it might be too late to try conscription, there are alot of people with jaded views of our government and military, not all off us are/were baby killers, some of us actually try to make the world a better place.
I think conscription would work if we implemented it, Like I said, leave the combat arms stuff to the hard core, let others fill support roles and got to school for their two years, then pay to let them finish their education once their out. I disagree in that I think most everyone needs a little structure in their lives, that is something the military definetly gives you. Plus look at how many kids waste their grants/scholarships/ etc by partying and screwing up at college, then dropping out. For 90% of us, it is a long and lonely leap from high school to college. I think we would save alot of money doing this.
As to prisons, I think they have too much luxury, people should not want to go back to jail. I think our system has gotten out of control. This is punishment.
I think lesser offenders should be put to work in public works projects that improve communities and teach them skills to help them succeed, there are plenty of things in this country that need fixing.
Serious and repeat offenders usually aren't going anywhere, take away their cable, take away their comforts, put them to work in the prison doing something useful.
I think it might be too late to try conscription, there are alot of people with jaded views of our government and military, not all off us are/were baby killers, some of us actually try to make the world a better place.
I think conscription would work if we implemented it, Like I said, leave the combat arms stuff to the hard core, let others fill support roles and got to school for their two years, then pay to let them finish their education once their out. I disagree in that I think most everyone needs a little structure in their lives, that is something the military definetly gives you. Plus look at how many kids waste their grants/scholarships/ etc by partying and screwing up at college, then dropping out. For 90% of us, it is a long and lonely leap from high school to college. I think we would save alot of money doing this.
As to prisons, I think they have too much luxury, people should not want to go back to jail. I think our system has gotten out of control. This is punishment.
I think lesser offenders should be put to work in public works projects that improve communities and teach them skills to help them succeed, there are plenty of things in this country that need fixing.
Serious and repeat offenders usually aren't going anywhere, take away their cable, take away their comforts, put them to work in the prison doing something useful.
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Wolfgang70
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Hmmmmm. Maybe I should have clarified regarding the criminal/military aspect. No, serious offenders belong in jail without creature comforts. It is, after all, supposed to be punishment. The people I was refering to were the same as Apoptosis. The felones looking at 10 years or less where they can have their sentences reduced in exchange for serving their country. Sure, they'll go in with bad attitudes but the military has a habit of changing those.
The problem I have with conscription is that it means DRAFT. Look it up if you don't believe me. The bill says people could work in many different parts of government but what will happen when there is a war? Read the bill. The President will have the power to assign those in civilian posts to military ones. Not cool.
Also, we are a nation of "What have you done for me lately?" It appears this bill would require service without benefit and I don't mean a steady paycheck for 2 years. And where is the country going to get the money to implement something like this? We're already in a deficit situation. This kind of program will cost a pretty penny. There are trainers. There are payrolls. There are expenses like insurance coverage. There is a myriad of costs that are not addressed in this legislation. Before the government starts asking the people to step up and be responsible, they should look at their own practices first.
Capper, you and I will have to agree to disagree regarding the need for military service. I respect your opinion but I have experiences that are different from yours. I know people who went into the military wholeheartedly, got out, and then didn't know what to do with themselves. Some went back. Some went on to college (some dropped out).
The problem I have with conscription is that it means DRAFT. Look it up if you don't believe me. The bill says people could work in many different parts of government but what will happen when there is a war? Read the bill. The President will have the power to assign those in civilian posts to military ones. Not cool.
Also, we are a nation of "What have you done for me lately?" It appears this bill would require service without benefit and I don't mean a steady paycheck for 2 years. And where is the country going to get the money to implement something like this? We're already in a deficit situation. This kind of program will cost a pretty penny. There are trainers. There are payrolls. There are expenses like insurance coverage. There is a myriad of costs that are not addressed in this legislation. Before the government starts asking the people to step up and be responsible, they should look at their own practices first.
Capper, you and I will have to agree to disagree regarding the need for military service. I respect your opinion but I have experiences that are different from yours. I know people who went into the military wholeheartedly, got out, and then didn't know what to do with themselves. Some went back. Some went on to college (some dropped out).
We already tried the lesser felon joining the military thing. It was big in the 60's and 70's, all it did was move one problem from on area to another, it didn't really solve anything or help anything.
As to your thoughts about conscription and war. I think it would be fine to keep conscripts in the rear, let them do support jobs, while going to school and learning a trade, that is fine, your concern about war is valid, but lets look at it from a realistic standpoint. When, not if, we enter the next world war, there will be a draft regardless, so that really has no impact on things. Trust me when I say you are in better shape already serving and filling a support role then being drafted. They aren't going to waste time and money teaching you a skil, then send you out into the field, have to teach you something else, then teach someone the job you were doing.
I hope that makes sense.
As to your thoughts about conscription and war. I think it would be fine to keep conscripts in the rear, let them do support jobs, while going to school and learning a trade, that is fine, your concern about war is valid, but lets look at it from a realistic standpoint. When, not if, we enter the next world war, there will be a draft regardless, so that really has no impact on things. Trust me when I say you are in better shape already serving and filling a support role then being drafted. They aren't going to waste time and money teaching you a skil, then send you out into the field, have to teach you something else, then teach someone the job you were doing.
I hope that makes sense.
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Bio-Hazard
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I guess I'll add my .02 in on this cause it's something I really beleave in..... 
So all you younger folks out there get ready to shoot me.......if you can see me....... 
J/K
I enlisted in the Army while they still had the old draft..........during OUR countries last war that no one wanted or liked much, sometimes you just have to suck it up and serve YOUR country, peace or war time...... When I enlisted, we were still being shot at in the far east and Americans were coming home in American Flag covered Coffins by the hundreds. OK, enough of my story, everyone doesn't have the same standards as I do. And I don't expect them to, it seems that Duty, Honor, Country are words of the past and are fading into history.
I myself think everyone should serve at least 1 term in the service of their country. Like capper5016 says, it will do you alot of good.......IMHO. You'll see alot of things differently after you serve.....trust me.....I know.
I guess I was raised a little differently that alot of folks, my family believed in the old JFK speach about "ask not what your county can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
My family stats:
Father, USAF, 25 years, Retired, Disabled
Brother, USMC, 15 years, Retired Disabled
Myself, US Army, 20 years, Retired, Crazy as He!!
So do your time folks......it's good for you........... :twisted:
So all you younger folks out there get ready to shoot me.......if you can see me....... J/KI enlisted in the Army while they still had the old draft..........during OUR countries last war that no one wanted or liked much, sometimes you just have to suck it up and serve YOUR country, peace or war time......
When I enlisted, we were still being shot at in the far east and Americans were coming home in American Flag covered Coffins by the hundreds. OK, enough of my story, everyone doesn't have the same standards as I do. And I don't expect them to, it seems that Duty, Honor, Country are words of the past and are fading into history. I myself think everyone should serve at least 1 term in the service of their country. Like capper5016 says, it will do you alot of good.......IMHO. You'll see alot of things differently after you serve.....trust me.....I know.
I guess I was raised a little differently that alot of folks, my family believed in the old JFK speach about "ask not what your county can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
My family stats:
Father, USAF, 25 years, Retired, Disabled
Brother, USMC, 15 years, Retired Disabled
Myself, US Army, 20 years, Retired, Crazy as He!!
So do your time folks......it's good for you........... :twisted:
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infinitevalence
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Im not apposed to doing my time rather its the fact that they want to pull me out of college. I would be moved from my studies in computer science to god knows where. How does me dieing for a war i have never supported for a man that the majority of people did not vote for, and because of shortsighted and overconfident decisions help my county. i can do more for my country by getting my education and being productive. thats my big gripe. I want to serve my country but no by just holding an gun and pulling the trigger. if they want me to sit in a room and write code to crack codes fine, if they want me repairing stealth bombers ok. but dont waste my abilities on a gun.
"Don't open that! It's an alien planet! Is there air? You don't know!"
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Bio-Hazard
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There's alot more to military service than holding a gun...........Some of the best code crackers got their training in the military............lots and lots of high tech jobs in the military...........I was helicopter flight crew/mechanic for 20 years..........and everything thing on them is computer controled...........the Blackhawks I worked on had 3 onboard computers that controled the different systems.......That's where I started working with computers..........that was way back in the early '80s.........the military is only as good as you make it yourself.......you can't blame your failing on anyone else..........
Well, to me you are the exception rather than the rule. Alot of people would enroll incollege merely to escape service. i am with Bio here, no one is asking you to carry aweapon, I'm just saying you filling asupport role and getting your education at the same time frees up other who would fight. those support roles are just as important as a combat role.
As to supporting our President, it doesn't matter that you didn't vote for him, I did, but that doesn't matter either. what matters is he is our president, he represents the US, same as Bill Clinto did.
As to the war, i think alot of people are niave to think there was no chemical weapons, Saddam used them before, and he would use them again. I think they played the shell gamre for a long time, but there were weapons there, they were probably shuttled out through Syria or our good friend Saudi Arabia. These people think different than us, they don't forgive and forget, they don't play fair, and right now they are using their biggest weapon of all, the US media, to wage their war.
Our media is using its clout to try and affect the outcome of this election, I think they are shorrtsided by not seeing they are destroying world opinion of the US.. The people we are fighting use terrorism, they fight out of mosques, they strap bombs to kids, they use terror to get what they want. I think eventually we will be fighting gfor our survival.
I have spent a great deal of time overseas, to just about every place imaginable, and some not, Very seldom did i come across people who did not welcome us or appreciate what we did for them. Like Bio and I both said, serving your country will open your eyes to alot in this world.
As to public opinion in this country, people have a short memory, crying about privacy and fighting terrorism, they will be the first ones sniveling the next time someone attacks us on our soil.
As to supporting our President, it doesn't matter that you didn't vote for him, I did, but that doesn't matter either. what matters is he is our president, he represents the US, same as Bill Clinto did.
As to the war, i think alot of people are niave to think there was no chemical weapons, Saddam used them before, and he would use them again. I think they played the shell gamre for a long time, but there were weapons there, they were probably shuttled out through Syria or our good friend Saudi Arabia. These people think different than us, they don't forgive and forget, they don't play fair, and right now they are using their biggest weapon of all, the US media, to wage their war.
Our media is using its clout to try and affect the outcome of this election, I think they are shorrtsided by not seeing they are destroying world opinion of the US.. The people we are fighting use terrorism, they fight out of mosques, they strap bombs to kids, they use terror to get what they want. I think eventually we will be fighting gfor our survival.
I have spent a great deal of time overseas, to just about every place imaginable, and some not, Very seldom did i come across people who did not welcome us or appreciate what we did for them. Like Bio and I both said, serving your country will open your eyes to alot in this world.
As to public opinion in this country, people have a short memory, crying about privacy and fighting terrorism, they will be the first ones sniveling the next time someone attacks us on our soil.
we have that here, i think it's very important to help you country. of course US actually help other countries so it's not really the same because serving your country here means serving just a few hours away from home.
There are options to learn in the university first if you are willing to serve more time and your school grades are really good.
There are options to learn in the university first if you are willing to serve more time and your school grades are really good.
LOL yesterday (or was it the day before?) the Mossad opened a website where you can try to join
http://www.mossad.gov.il/Mohr/MohrTopNa ... hrAboutUs/
anyone interested?
http://www.mossad.gov.il/Mohr/MohrTopNa ... hrAboutUs/
anyone interested?
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Bio-Hazard
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This is the reason or should I say how I came to having my nick name "Bio-Hazard". Thanks to our old friend Saddam during the first Gulf War. Doesn't really matter what the news media said or what was reported to the world...........we were gassed during the first Gulf War. Our chemical alarms were going off during several attacks, granted some could be false alarms, but when people start getting sick after a attack, somethings up. And at 2 different times we had to use our nerve agent pills.........capper5016 wrote: As to the war, i think alot of people are niave to think there was no chemical weapons, Saddam used them before, and he would use them again. I think they played the shell gamre for a long time, but there were weapons there, they were probably shuttled out through Syria or our good friend Saudi Arabia. These people think different than us, they don't forgive and forget, they don't play fair, and right now they are using their biggest weapon of all, the US media, to wage their war.
That stuff is still over there, it may be burried deep under the desert sands, but it's still there and someone knows where it is. It's just a matter of time before it gets used and I pray to god it isn't used over in this country.again, amen brother Bio, preach on. People, I went through an NBC school as part of some advance training. Sarin, VX, Anthrax....nasty stuff kids.
What I think alot of people don't understand is most of it will last forever if stored and handled correctly, and that it takes very little to kill and injure alot of people. A container the size of a pepsi can could wipe out hundreds, or even thousands if done correctly (large gathering, correct dispersal unit).
People, they didn't have to have millions of gallons of the stuff, a couple of hundred gallons would be plenty to do damage, and easy to conceal or move.
What I think alot of people don't understand is most of it will last forever if stored and handled correctly, and that it takes very little to kill and injure alot of people. A container the size of a pepsi can could wipe out hundreds, or even thousands if done correctly (large gathering, correct dispersal unit).
People, they didn't have to have millions of gallons of the stuff, a couple of hundred gallons would be plenty to do damage, and easy to conceal or move.