Skier's Stereo

A place to talk about A/V receivers, Blu-Ray players, LCD or Plasma TV mounting, audio tips or anything else that you think fits.
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Skier's Stereo

Postby skier » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:43 pm

so i play my laptop/desktop/mp3 player through my room stereo(JVC reciever from ~'75) a lot, and i want to UP the bass as my main speakers have 2 brand new 750W 10" speakers in two boxes, and soon to be 2 new 850W 12" speakers in two other boxes(currently two 30yr old duct-tape-fixed 12's) so what kind of amp do i need, and how do i hook it up?(the boxes have internal cross-overs)


TIA!
Last edited by skier on Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Austin
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:27 pm

Ohm load? And I find it very difficult to believe they're 750W

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:22 pm

the subs are, i bought them a few months ago and slapped 'em in, i replaced the 6 speakers in two of the boxes(the ones with 10's)

10" spkr box 1
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homemade tweeter-box on the receiver
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10"spkr box 2
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the two with 12's
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:04 pm

i'm just in the process of refurbishing, and am realizing how insufficient my receiver is... either need an amp, or a new receiver, or both :x
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm

Well, for starters you're using car audio speakers in a home speaker. There's nothing wrong with that, but the ohm diffrence will make a diffrence in the output of your reciever. Are they 4 ohms? I don't know what model Lighenings you're using.

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:25 pm

i think they're 8, but i'll pull em out right now and check..
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:30 pm

okay, 4 Ohm, 750W..

-i knew that they were for car audio, as that's the section of walmart i got them in ;)
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:41 pm

skierkid450 wrote:okay, 4 Ohm, 750W..

-i knew that they were for car audio, as that's the section of walmart i got them in ;)



LMFAO! Lightening Audio! From IASCA and USACi comps down to sold at WalMart. What happened?

As you decrease ohms the output of the amp doubles on most Class A/B amps which given the age of your reciever it has to be. So if it's good at 120W per channel at 8 ohm it should be good for 240w per channel at 4 ohm IF it will run 4 ohm stable. I see many a blown fuse in your future if you try this!

IF you want to do this, you'd need to bridge the amp on the reciever, which it was never designed to do. Running it in bridged you might be able to crank out 480w depending on what it's ohm rating but I got a strong feeling you'll blow your amp before you get what you want out of it.



Course I could be wrong and it'll work just fine. But you're going to be pulling A LOT of amps through that reciever. Average wall outlet is rated at 15-30amp. Your average car audio sub amp uses that much BY IT SELF and is far more efficent as it's straight 12V DC/DC, not 120V AC to 12V DC. Plus the ohm loads are diffrent between home audio and car audio with home being 8 ohm and car audio being from 4 down to 1 ohm.

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:46 pm

would it be worth jumping up to
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115193
or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120068
or http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STR197B/Sony-STR-DE197.html?tp=33&tab=review
?

also, when i remove the current 12's(probably 8ohm) would it improve sound(aside from the duct tape NOT rattling) to go with 4 Ohm subs as well to make it even? or should i just get all new subs, 8 ohm and go from there?
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:15 pm

Theres a web site for people who want to build thier own drivers. It's called DIY Audio. Thier forums can give you a wealth of information about building your own speakers from enclosure to driver to even crossovers if you got soldering skillz.

Many people who do what you're wanting to do order from companies like Parts Express who sell individual drivers at various ohm ratings. Almost all home audio receivers and amps are rated at 8 ohm. While they can run lower ohm loads (6 ohm being most common in homes) it does heat up the MOSFETS and can cause total catastropic amp failure.

As for drivers, I hear EXCELLENT things about Tang-Band drivers. They're cost effective, efficent, and come in some rather unsual shapes.

As far as receivers, I'm biased towards Yamaha. I have three Yamaha's at home (HTR-5150, RX-V1600, RX-V1800) and love them. For the money it's hard to beat them. That Onkyo isn't a bad choice but I'd stay away from Sony. Sony tends towards more "features" and less "amp".

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:14 pm

OKAY!! so after Consulting the resident Audio tech, Skippman :), i'm ditching the car audio crap, and updating the crossover for two of the speakers to start out with..
here we go:
Dayton DC250-8 10" Classic Woofer, SPL: 89 dB 1W/1m, 8ohm, xmax:4.5mm, Frequency response: 25-2,500 Hz, Power handling: 70 watts RMS/105 watts max
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Dayton DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer, SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m, 8ohm, Xmax: 3.15mm, Frequency response: 30-4,000 Hz, Power handling: 50 watts RMS/75 watts max
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Tang Band 25-302SH 1" Shielded Neodymium Dome Tweeter, SPL: 91 dB 1W/1m, 8ohm, Frequency range: 1,400-20,000 Hz, Power handling: 80 watts max
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Crossover 3-Way 8 Ohm 800/4,500 Hz 200W, The woofer section rolls off 6 dB at 800 Hz while the tweeter section uses a 12 dB per octave roll off at 4,500 Hz. The midrange section uses a true band pass filter with a response of 750-5,000 Hz. 12 dB per octave roll off. all at 8ohm
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the two duct tape 12's will have to wait as they still produce decent sound, and the other speakers can prolly carry the extra load of sound, and it's currently looking like $100 per speaker box(which is perfectly acceptable) for the boxes with 10's, i'm gonna have to save before those come
-Austin
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby DaIceMan » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:37 pm

Nothing wrong with Sony receivers. Obviously, they aren't top of the world, but mine does just fine with my Polk Audio speakers to satisfy my tastes. Of course, I avoid listening to really high end stuff because if I actually were to hear a difference (~ 10-15% hearing loss in each ear), I can't afford anything more than I have right now. :)

I'll have to look into the Tang Band drivers. I have an old pair of Advent Prodigy speakers that I LOVED, but the woofers have long since shredded and they don't make direct replacements for the Advent woofers.
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:42 pm

me and skipp had quite the discussion on steam, those are what's decided, and i accept the $100 price tag per speakerbox, and i enjoy that they are rated to "loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage for prolonged periods of time(a few hours)" aka, 85db+ (they're all at a max Sound Pressure Level of 88-91db!)

i cant wait to buy these!
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:46 am

I hope everything works out for ya Skiier.

I wasn't trying to imply Sony makes crap. What I intended by my statement was that if you're only going to use it for two channel stereo or as an amp then Sony probably isn't the best choice as pound for pound thier internal amps tend to be weaker than a Yamaha's at the same price. Sony tends to focus on features like diffrent DSP modes, video switching and transcoding, etc. That's part of the Sony "thing" though. Sony is a consumer electronics company. Yamaha is a audio company, that's pretty much thier main industry from pianos to amps.

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:43 pm

would it be worth getting this for the 12's instead of going new? it'd save like $40
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:22 am

Refinishing speakers is really an art more than a hobby. If you put glue on the wrong part it will eat clear through the cone. If you put to much glue on one side of the cone than the other it'll buzz as the cones now unbalanced. Really, if you're going to spend the money spend the money.

I used to have a set of Accoustic Research AR series back in the late 90's. They were some of the best sounding speakers I'd ever heard. Blew a seal on one of the woofers. Tried to have a professional in town repair them by rebuilding them. Ended up destroying the drivers.

Skiier might get lucky and have the right touch for doing it. But to spend $25 on something that may destroy the driver causing thim to have to replace it anyway seems a gamble.

These refinishing kits are more for old Hi-Fi cabinets where sound quality isn't so much an issue as not being able to find a replacement driver is.

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:13 pm

okay, i'll go new and get speakers that would be much better(much bigger magnet at least)

i just used contact cleaner in the receiver, i'm letting it air out a bit before i put it back together and use it
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby skier » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:19 pm

contact cleaner =WIN!!!! :) receiver works perfectly now
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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby Skippman » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:47 am

skierkid450 wrote:contact cleaner =WIN!!!! :) receiver works perfectly now


Glad to hear it! Try not to get any of that stuff on your skin if you need to use it again as it's pretty darn caustic.

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Re: Reciever-> Amp?-> Speakers

Postby martini161 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:07 pm

i guess im a bit late on hear but it would probably be worth it to get some real cabinets...


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