Mobo advice

Discussion about Intel CPU Motherboards
guiri
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Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 pm

Guys, getting a new computer built and I want to have several SSD's in raid 0 for faster performance because I constantly access
folders with many thousands of files and it takes forever to index them, make thumbnails of the folders, sort them by size, date, etc.

So, I wanted to stripe a few SSD's but most boards only do a couple of units in raid o and 6gb speed.

Found this one but it's very expensive ASRock X79 Extreme11. It DOES however have a raid controller for up to EIGHT drives at 6 gigs.

Here's the thing, I am NOT a gamer so I have absolutely NO need for four way sli support. I will be using ONE video card only.

May main thing is lots of connectors for drives in 6gb and I would like 6 or more.

I ALSO like having lots of usb ports (2.0 or 3.0)

16gb memory support is enough

Mobo size not important

Video on board or not, doesn't matter

Gigabit lan, at least one connector

I've found these but the way the sata connectors (6gb) are listed, I don't understand if they're on one controller or different controllers
and I don't know if you can run them all together so to speak? Ie, they list 2x satas at 6gb and then further down they list 4x satas at 6gb but can they
all be connected into ONE raid 0 unit?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128532
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157288
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128562
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128531

Thanks and please, post links if you can

George

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby egloeckle » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:37 pm

Why not get a board more suited to your other needs and get a proper RAID controller?

Onboard RAID is not what you are looking for, dont try to force it to be something it isnt.

Edit: Really not sure this will even give you the performance you need/want either. But since there isnt a ton of info about the specific problem and it is just a question about throwing hardware at the issue I will leave the above.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby KnightRid » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:19 am

I agree with eglo. Get a separate RAID controller.

I would never buy a $600 MB unless it was for a company server. A RAID card will not be super cheap but at least if you change MB's down the road you will not have to rebuild everything.

I also am with eglo in that I don't know if raid will solve your problem or not. High end CPU and more memory would help also. If you are talking folders of pictures then you may notice a bit of a speed up with ssd but for a massive increase just change the folder and all sub-folders to a general category so there are no thumbnails. You will see aa HUGE increase if you do that.
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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:19 pm

Yeah, the raid cards (or at least the good ones) ARE expensive :(

The thumbnails are the whole purpose (at least when I'm in Windows explorer and ACDSee) because that's how I find the pics.

I have 8 gigs of ram right now and a processor running at 4gHz so exactly how can I speed it up on THAT end?

Thanks

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby XstollieX » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:47 pm

guiri wrote:
I have 8 gigs of ram right now and a processor running at 4gHz so exactly how can I speed it up on THAT end?

Thanks

16Gb of ram and 4.1GHz :lol: but seriously, it depends on what processor you are running, a dual core athlon II at 4GHz isn't going to be anywhere near as fast as something like a Intel Core i7 3960X at 4GHz. Frequency isn't the only key to the speed of the processor. If you're running an older generation i7, your either limited to SATA II, or a third party SATA III controller like Marvell. While the Marvell controller isn't bad, the Intel SATA III controller that was introduced with Intel's P67 chipset is significantly faster. I think Joe did a comparison between the two, I'll see if I can find the one I'm thinking of. Before deciding to go with a wild RAID setup, let's take a look at your current rig and see where your bottleneck might be.

Dan

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:37 am

Alright, here's the info that I DO have and my current system uses 8 gigs of ram and no, i don't game or do video editing and
usually do ONE thing at the time.

Intel Core 2 Duo E8600, Overclocked to 4.0Ghz
ASUS P5Q Premium LGA 775 Intel P45
CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 - Note, total of 8GB of RAM

Western Digital WD20EADS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive Frankly, I did an informal test where I copied the same amount of pics (usually very small files) to the drive and to a OCZ Vertex 4 (120 or 128gb SSD) and couldn't notice much difference in the time it showed me what's available in the folder with around 5000 pictures in it.

Is this the info you need?

Also, I'm pretty sure my mobo only has Sata II

Thanks

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:21 am

IMHO, What you need is a processor (cpu) that can do the job faster. Clock speed is one thing, but having more cores is better.

For your new rig I suggest the following:

Case Cooler Master Cosmos II http://www.coolermaster.com
PSU Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1050W http://www.thermaltakeusa.com
Mobo Asus P9X79 Deluxe http://www.asus.com
CPU Intel i7-3930K @4.8GHz (overclocked) http://www.intel.com
Cooler Corsair H100 http://www.corsair.com
GPU EVGA GTX 690 http://www.evga.com
RAM 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3/1600 http://www.corsair.com
Optical Drive LG WH12LS39 BD-R Burner http://www.lg.com
Solid State Drive Samsung 830 Series 256GB http://www.samsung.com
Hard Drive Seagate Barracuda 3TB (x2) http://www.seagate.com
OS Windows 7 Professional 64-bit http://www.microsoft.com

Approximate Price: $3,460


Give or take some different parts as far as brand names go, I think you get the idea. I got this parts list from Maximum PC.com

I think you can take it from there to decide what you really need. Just remember you can always get a larger SSD. Something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147194 That is 512GB SSD. Get two in RAID 0 and you are talking about some amazing speed.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:07 pm

So, why is quad core faster if I'm only doing one thing at a time?

Thanks

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:29 pm

From my experience your computer never does one thing a time. There is always some background program running whether you want it to run or not. Let's face it the more cores the better! I ran a google search for comparing dual-core vs. quad-core cpus. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406293,00.asp As you can see that the more cores the better.

The Intel Core i7 3930 is a 6 core rig. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116492 It will do whatever you ask it to do! Here is a review of the Intel Core i7 3930 cpu: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4435/i ... index.html

So in a nut shell you would be going from 2 cores to 6 cores plus 6 virtual cores, That is a HUGE difference!

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:34 pm

Well, I was gonna mention the stuff running in the background...I guess I should have.

Ok, more cores, more speed and sure, I DO understand that it's good to have more cores, I just didn't know if I needed them or not and I was trying to keep cost down at least a little. I'd have to get rid of a bunch of stuff to be able to afford the upgrade but hey, it IS doable. I just have to get stuff sold first :)

The bottleneck is still the drives isn't it?

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby KnightRid » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:14 am

Just FYI - copying a large amount of small files will be a lot slower than copying large files, no matter what drives you are using.

I wouldnt go as crazy with the CPU like Vibronchef did either. I would snag a quad core i7 rather than going higher end.

Also, the only thing you keep saying about is copying pictures from one drive to another. Is there anything else you do? Why not just set up a raid 1 and let it create a mirror image automatically? Is it necessary to copy data in a moments notice or something? Set up an external drive and mirror everything from your picture directories to it automatically that way you can always unplug the external and go.

I am just trying to figure out why you need to upgrade just to copy files as a newer CPU may make it a tiny bit faster, is it worth the money for a few seconds/minutes?
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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:34 am

guiri wrote:The bottleneck is still the drives isn't it?


I think your bottleneck is the whole LGA 775 platform.

KnightRid wrote:I wouldnt go as crazy with the CPU like Vibronchef did either. I would snag a quad core i7 rather than going higher end.


I just used that as a example. I do believe that the LGA 2011 is the fastest platform out there. Could always go for a Intel Core i7-3820 for 299.99. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115229

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:41 pm

That's one of the two processors my puter guy recommended depending on which mobo I wanted to go with
and here's the other one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116501

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:44 pm

KnightRid wrote:Just FYI - copying a large amount of small files will be a lot slower than copying large files, no matter what drives you are using.

I wouldnt go as crazy with the CPU like Vibronchef did either. I would snag a quad core i7 rather than going higher end.

Also, the only thing you keep saying about is copying pictures from one drive to another. Is there anything else you do? Why not just set up a raid 1 and let it create a mirror image automatically? Is it necessary to copy data in a moments notice or something? Set up an external drive and mirror everything from your picture directories to it automatically that way you can always unplug the external and go.

I am just trying to figure out why you need to upgrade just to copy files as a newer CPU may make it a tiny bit faster, is it worth the money for a few seconds/minutes?


No, no, you misunderstood. NOT copying, looking for files as in opening windows explorer and looking through 5-10,000 pics/files or doing it through
a graphics viewer like ACDSee or in one of the open dialogs when I go to open a file in say, Corel Draw or Photoshop or something.

I'm good if I just want to scroll through a list of files at the default setting but if I want to change the order by size, date or something else, it
can take forever before it does it. I mean, it can take 30 seconds before it does it and before it's done, I can't even access the files once
I tell it to reorder the files and this gets on my nerves :(

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:22 am

For RAID Controllers I would look at Adaptec by PMC. http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/products/all/. That is if you don't use your on board RAID controller. What concerns me about your build right now is in about 6 months Intel will probably introduce new motherboards and CPU's that will make your new build already last generation. I know what everyone is thinking, It's always that way. It just burns me up knowing that right around the corner their is something new and hopefully better products in the pipe line. I just had to bring it up because I know the 2011 and 1155 platforms will be replaced soon.

Whatever platform you choose, I really don't think that you will have to overclock your cpu to get the desired results you are looking for. More cores should do the trick. For me I would build on a LGA2011 board because of the better memory.

Here is a supposed road map for Intel. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/20 ... -2013.aspx looks like the Core i7-3970K is coming out in a few weeks.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:37 pm

I'm not necessarily in a hurry. If I can sell my current computers to pay for the new one, cool, then I'll do it, if not, I can wait till I sell something.

The question is really, will this solve my problem (see the explanation right above your post)

As for there always being new stuff on the way...that doesn't bother me as I know it does. As long as the computer does what I want, I couldn't care less.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:45 am

guiri wrote:The question is really, will this solve my problem (see the explanation right above your post)


vbironchef wrote:Whatever platform you choose, I really don't think that you will have to overclock your cpu to get the desired results you are looking for. More cores should do the trick. For me I would build on a LGA2011 board because of the better memory.


Let us know what you decide and we love pics. :)

edit: You never mentioned what graphic card you are using now. I highly suggest you buy a new graphic card. something like a Evga 670 gtx to handle all your needs. Graphic cards do make a computer faster.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:25 pm

Pics huh? I can do that I guess and here's something for you for now.

This is the original configuration, it's changed a little since then but mobo, video card and the main stuff is still the same
http://extuff.biz/forsale/Computer-Conf ... ture-1.jpg

Hmm, I see the video card is missing, this is what I have ASUS EAH3870X2

Here's the way the original case looked. I photoshopped and added the front bay stuff to see what it would look like
but because I don't have any GOOD pics, I'll just post this. The whole schematic thing is to show what I was going to hook up to it.
Note, those 16 usb ports DO come in handy...
Click the pic to enlarge http://www.1stchoicemonroe.com/images/N ... Jeff-3.jpg Note, shows the original Palit graphics card which I replaced with the Asus.
The case MAY be for sale the way you see it by the way. 12 fans with individual controller for each fan. 10x front bays and holds 18 drives inside without using the front bays.

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby guiri » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:25 pm

Also note that I DO NOT do ANY gaming whatsoever!

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Re: Mobo advice

Postby vbironchef » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:00 pm

guiri wrote:Also note that I DO NOT do ANY gaming whatsoever!


I totally get it! You do not do any gaming whatsoever! That does not mean that a video card is not important. Think of your computer as a link chain. Your computer is only as strong as its weakest link.

I was looking at your pics. It says your O.S. is XP Media Center. Really don't know much about that. I run Windows 7 pro.

I used to be a fan of fan filters, now I just throw them away. In my experience they just reduce fan flow and over heat the system. I guess I'm just lazy not to clean the filters more often than I should.

Here's the thing. I have a LGA 775 motherboard. (Badaxe2) with a Qx6700. That's 4 cores. It doesn't even come close to the speed of a Intel I7 W/ 4 core or 6 core rig that I have. I'm just saying that your rig is old and tired. It just can't do what you want it to do. I have a rule these days. It goes like this. For every core you have, buy 2GB of memory. So if you buy a Intel I7, 4 core with 4 virtual cores you would buy at least 16GB of memory.

How you set up you hard drives is up to you. I believe that if you keep it simple the better. That's just me. I also like a quiet computer. Also, I like a computer I can lift. So the lighter the better for me.

You have used your computer to the end of its usefulness. It's time to build a new computer. I hope that I helped. :)


Edit number 2: After a few beers I was thinking you could build a new computer like we talked about and use you old computer as a storage drive computer. If you change your O.S. to windows 7 64 bit as with your new computer you could have everything you need. Speed, storage, and all the ports you could want. With windows 7 it is easy to set up a home network.

Edit: Would it make sense to build two computers and have them in the same network? Use just one wireless keyboard and mouse and switch between the two computers to give you all the ports that you need? You can also switch between monitors if you have more than one. I run two computers on one monitor. I just change the wireless usb dongle between computers. I have a external drive to backup both computers.

Your computer needs are much more complex than mine. That's why I think you could run 2 computers in windows 7 64 bit and have all the connections you need. Just have to have them on the same home network so you could access all your files. Maybe just split your needs to have one computer with all your files and one computer for all your external needs. All in the same home network. Just a thought! :)


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