Best AGP Video Card?

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:58 pm

sbohdan wrote:
kenc51 wrote:the X850XT IS the best......Full Stop....

PS 3.0 is only a minor performance thing for the Gforce6 series....

PS 3.0 does allow for great effects like HDR but with the Gforce6 series of cards, performance is crippled seriously....

So basically the GForce6 series is fast, not as fast as the X850 but allows you to use HDR in select games......BUT if you use HDR you need to seriously drop the resloution to get playable frame rates....

The ATI cards support PS 2.0b.....they can't use HDR but are wicked fast!!

IF your willing to pay, then the ATI X850XT is the best $$ can buy for AGP

current games will support HDR but not require it, don't worry about PS 3.0 support
I couldn't have said it better
for what you said about the price of the GT - it's true. I just said that the GT AGP is faster then the GS AGP. it costs more too

but it's clear you know your NV cards!....I'm just learning them LOL

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:00 pm

hehe, yeah, by time we learn them - they are outdated

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:41 pm

X850XT...... Great..... But I'm NOT paying another $400 for a video card.
Screw it, maybe I'll just go and get a hooker.........

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:32 am

Ok, so then it looks like it's between these two cards:

ATI Radeon X850 Pro 256MB
GeForce 6800 GS 256MB

Which one should I buy?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:56 am

I like the ATI card, however I would have to go with the 6800GS......I'm more partial to Nvidia myself...plus, sbohdan has done a cool-ass cooling mod to a 6800 he has (not a GS, but should still work) using a Thermalright HSF.......it's all in what flavor you prefer.......and I guess you could do that mod I'm talking about to an ATI card, but I saw it on an nVidia card first, lol

LINKY

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:17 am

I looked around on google and it seems the x850 pro can be easily opened up and OC'd with ATI tool to XTPE levels or just flashed to XTPE. I'm not sure if the 6800GS AGP version can be opened up. logically since it is a NV40 core it could be but I found no proof so far.
other than this both cards have 12 pipes at default but the 850pro has higher clocks and as much as I gathered 1.6ns memory as oposed to the 2.0ns in GS (the lower the better - more OC headroom). I would go with the 850pro in this case, flash it to XTPE and OC like mad

eighter way you go I would also invest in a good aftermarket cooler or do a cooling mod if you intend to open up pipes and OC because the temps will definitelly go up from that. if you leave the card at stock speeds then I guess don't have to bother with cooling.
keep in mind that if you flash the card's bios or OC you loose the card's warranty so make sure before you do that that the card is perfectly operational and you don't have to RMA it. if you decide to open up the pipes and OC or flash the bios we will help you on how to do it properly (OC'ing and flashing is risky business if you don't know what you doing - but well worthed with some types of cards)

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:58 am

Topher wrote:I'm a bit out of touch with the current specs of video cards, what benefits would I get from this? Which games use it?

FarCry, Splinter Cell 3, UT2007, etc.
Games generally don't list SM3.0 as a feature, they leave that up te graphics cards manufacturers so it's a little hard to find info.

Unfortunately, not too many games take advantage of it because of dev time constraints. Even in FarCry, SM3.0 shaders were only used sparringly instead of for everything, matter of factly, FarCry has quite a lot of PS1.1 shaders. Usually the performance is boosted in places where there's a lot of shader activity (shadows, light rays, mapping, etc) where SM3.0 could do it in one pass as opposed to two or three passes in SM2.0 which may range anywhere from a 1% to 300% performance boost depending on what's being shown on screen. Realistically, that percentage would be closer to 10%-15%, for current games that is.

FarCry is pretty much a SM2.0 game with SM3.0 support added mainly for a little performance boost in some areas. In other words, shader intensive games in the future would likely see a much more pronounced performance increase. Though I may end up eating my words if no game devs take advantage of SM3.0.

In short, SM3.0 just allows game devs to use more cool effects like HDR and parallax mapping without as big a performance hit.

If it's pure speed you want and don't care too much about image quality, go with the X850XT, if it's value, go with the 6800GS.

As for the whole unlocking business, RivaTuner even identifies the 6800GS's chip as "6800GT", as has been shown on a few forums. The only reason there hasn't been as much of a stir yet is due mainly to the cards only becoming available about a week ago. That, and tech sites (with exception to THG) seem to have all but abandoned AGP anything in their reviews.

The 6800GT had been available for AGP a long time, but it was just recently they went out of stock everywhere. Guess nVidia wanted to make a price drop and figured they may as well capitalize on the success of the PCIe 6800GS.

If you do feel like waiting, the G73/7600GTs (AGP/PCIe) are supposed to be coming out "soon" (whatever that means).

Also, eVGA announced at CES about an overclocked 400/1100 AGP 6800GS with a copper HSF a few days ago:
http://www.evga.com/about/pressrelease/ ... e=1/5/2006

As for your 9700 Pro... well... how to put it...
A 6600GT can whip a 9800 Pro six ways from Sunday (2x frames with max visuals), AND THEN SOME.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:41 am

Ok, that settles it. I'm getting the X850 Pro and flashing and OC'ing that sucker to an x850XT.

I'll be back to bug you guys for help with the OC procedure.

Thanks a million for everyones input!

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:52 am

Topher wrote:Ok, that settles it. I'm getting the X850 Pro and flashing and OC'ing that sucker to an x850XT.

I'll be back to bug you guys for help with the OC procedure.

Thanks a million for everyones input!

I don't think the X850pro will mod to a full x850XT!!!

It's the X800GTO2 that can be modded.....

The X800pro was able to mod to an X800XTPE but you can't get them cads anymore........

bigblockmatt · Post by **bigblockmatt** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:49 am

what is the difference in the x800 pro and the x850 pro? I was looking and some places have the x800pro more expensive...what the deal?

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:00 pm

The X800 line is on a newer 110nm manufacturing process over the X850's 130nm manufacturing process.

ATi's had more experience with 130nm so they've been able to get faster clocks on it.

Well... the X800GT cards used R480 chips too, so it's a bit confusing, and... there were some X800 cards on the 130nm R420/423, but hey that's ATi's marketing department for ya.

How many suffixes is that now? SE, Pro, XT, XL, PE, GT, GTO, GTO2, CrossFire and then all the combinations, lol. Ugh...

Why they couldn't use a more intuitive naming scheme like 800, 820, 840, 860, 880 with one or two different suffixes to mark differences is beyond me.

Interestingly enough, a friend of mine just went with a 6600GT because he got so frustrated trying to figure out what X8## card was faster/slower for its price, lol. He wasn't much of a computer person though, he just wanted to play SplinterCell.

bigblockmatt · Post by **bigblockmatt** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:20 pm

so the x800 line is better than the x850?

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:26 pm

bigblockmatt wrote:so the x800 line is better than the x850?

It depends on the suffix.

An X800XTPE will likely perform better than an X850XT.

X800XL cards have been known to pass by X850 Pro cards.

And of course, X800GTO cards have been known to perform better than many X850 cards.

Marketing at it's finest.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:33 pm

they gotta have a flavor for everyone, so they do, lol

it's maddening.....even I have a hard time sometimes keeping up with the numbering scheme.

funny how the newer stuff they keep releasing within a certain series can outperform the previous, lol.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:44 pm

$$$$$$$

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:27 pm

I don't think the X850pro will mod to a full x850XT!!!

Hmmm.... So I CAN'T open up the pipelines from 12 to 16 on the X850 Pro?
From what I've read that's about the only difference between the X850 Pro and the x850XT. See this chart at this link:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/content/176/

And Sbohdan said the following earlier:

I looked around on google and it seems the x850 pro can be easily opened up and OC'd with ATI tool to XTPE levels or just flashed to XTPE.

If it CAN be OCed then I think that would be my best bet.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:43 pm

Ok, here are exact step by step instructions to mod the X850 Pro agp to an X850XTPE.

http://www.overclock.net/faqs/44936-how ... xt-pe.html

So I'm going to go ahead and purchase the pro card. Although I'll be VERY nervous when performing this procedure.

I've flashed countless numbers of devices in the past. I have about 12 years experience working in IT. I just haven't really kept up on graphics cards nor have I ever overclocked one.

I'll be sure to get benchmarks before and after the mod and let everyone know how it goes.
Can anyone suggest a good after market cooling system? Looks like I'll need one.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:46 pm

I done the mod from an X800pro to an X800XTPE......It's scary when your doing it, But it's easy....Remember to follow instructions exactly!!!

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:59 pm

BTW. no need to be that nervous because if let's say you mess up the flash (not the right bios or you restart the computer during flash) and end up with an unusable card - don't panic. you can flash it back with your previously saved bios. it can be done by:
1. using an old PCI card (not PCI-E) - you can get those in a used computer parts store for cheap or
2. a blind flash if you know the exact steps (harder but not at all impossible)
If I were you, I would visit MVKTECH forums - these guys specialize on video cards and will help you with anything concerning flashing, blindflashing, modifying your original bios (ram timings, voltmod etc.)

http://www.mvktech.net/component/option ... Itemid,34/

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:21 pm

hey Ken, I have a suggestion:
why don't you start a sticky thread eighter in the modding or separatelly ATI and NVIDIA sections for flashing guides for all video cards or make an entirely new section devoted to modding and flashing video cards where members could attach guides they found on internet. for ex. a thread: how to flash an x850pro to XTPE with links to as many guides as possible or how to turn a 6800LE to GT and OC to ultra with flashing, voltmoding and videocard bios flashing guides attached?

with time the flashing, modding database would grow to a considerable size and would allow members to find out which cards are modable, flashable and how to do it, instead of individually trying to look for guides on the internet and asking the same questions again and again.

moderators and members: what you think?