80 C - What's wrong??

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TristanM
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80 C - What's wrong??

Post by TristanM » Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:59 pm

My brother (CMcGuire on these forums) just finished his first build, the details are (as far as I know) -

Processor: Intel Quad Core Q6600
Motherboard: EVGA nForce 680 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2
Memory: Corsair 2GB DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 TwinX
Graphic Card: XFX Geforce 8800GTX 768MB PCI-E
Sound Card: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
PSU: BFG 1000W UK/PFC Approved PSU

He's just given me a ring because he's discovered that the processor cores are running with no load at 80 degrees, and he's looking for help in finding out what's going on. I may take a walk up to his house tomorrow, but I'm not entirely sure what the potential issues are. It's air cooled, and as far as he can tell me over the phone the heatsink and whatnot is all arranged the way it should be. Anyone have any thoughts? He's sort of desperate to get this machine going...

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kenc51
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Post by kenc51 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:15 pm

How's he recording the temps? Via the BIOS? use "Coretemp" in windows to test...

Tell him to remove and replace the heatsink!
Make sure the fans are spinning too.

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Post by Zelig » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:39 pm

My guess is that the heatsink isn't properly seated, the heatsink fan isn't spinning, or something similar.

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vicaphit
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Post by vicaphit » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:53 pm

80 degrees farenheit, or centegrade? 80F isnt much more than room temp... not much wrong with that

TristanM
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Post by TristanM » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:59 pm

kenc51 wrote:How's he recording the temps? Via the BIOS? use "Coretemp" in windows to test...

Tell him to remove and replace the heatsink!
Make sure the fans are spinning too.
He downloaded something - didn't say what it was. I already asked about the fans and the heatsink and whatnot. Can you check the BIOS while the thing is running, or would you just run it for a while and restart to check once it's warmed up?

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kenc51
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Post by kenc51 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:16 pm

TristanM wrote:
kenc51 wrote:How's he recording the temps? Via the BIOS? use "Coretemp" in windows to test...

Tell him to remove and replace the heatsink!
Make sure the fans are spinning too.
He downloaded something - didn't say what it was. I already asked about the fans and the heatsink and whatnot. Can you check the BIOS while the thing is running, or would you just run it for a while and restart to check once it's warmed up?
Let it run for a bit first!
He could have downloaded any program. Software recorded temps can be wrong.
There's two temp readings for new CPU's. There's one on the motherboard (old style) and also an internal temp diode inside the cpu core(s)
Most software reads the temps from the motherboard. The problem there is the sensor chip isn't calibrated correctly and is normally way off.
The sensor inside the cpu core(s) is normally a lot more accurate.
CoreTemp records from this sensor. The bios reads from the motherboard, but a bios update normally fixes any weird temps

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Post by CMcguire » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:10 am

well both coretemp and everest report same temperatures of... well basically way to hot to be sitting idle.. (80C ..yes Centigrade idle)

all fans are spinning.. i applied thermal paste and attached heat sink (its not loose or anything dont see how it could be loose)

Im using sycthe ninja and arctic silver.

Now seeing as this is the first time i have built a computer what would you guess to be the likely cause?

Is the heatsink not seated properly? if not how do i know? (keep in mind heatsink is not loose)

Could i have too much or too little thermal paste?

etc etc..

P.S. until i figure this out im not doing anything on my new pc.. its back to the old one...

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Post by CMcguire » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:54 am

I reinstalled the heatsink this morning and i am now getting temps of 40-45 on 3 cores and around 50c on core 0 (according to core temp )

I ran everest stress test on cpu for 5 minutes and temp went up to about 80-85c on core 0 and about 80 on other cores..

Basically is this the sort of temps i should be seeing or should they be much lower?

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Post by kenc51 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:46 am

Conor, you got a PM!

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Post by CMcguire » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:51 am

i tried the stock cooler and im getting around 77 underload whihc is about 8c less then the sythe ninja... but idle like 57 which is about 7c more then the ninja idle..

arrgh..

O and btw im using bad axe 2 motherboard

I have a feeling the clips on the ninja aren't locking tight enough..

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Post by camaroguy1998 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:02 pm

Are you sure you have an adequate amount of thermal paste?
When you pull the HSF there should be an even amount over all of the core/CPU, if there are gaps this could cause a problem with heat transfer.
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Post by TristanM » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:33 pm

camaroguy1998 wrote:Are you sure you have an adequate amount of thermal paste?
When you pull the HSF there should be an even amount over all of the core/CPU, if there are gaps this could cause a problem with heat transfer.
That's what I said too - so far all the suggestions (thanks for the help from everyone btw) have been things I asked... I just didn't know if there was something "weird" that could cause the same thing...? Last time I talked to him he hadn't tried the stock cooler yet, but I suggested it and it doesn't seem to have changed much - lower high temp, but higher low temp. Does anyone know what the stock/standard temps are for the quad-core from a name brand are? Is it possible that those are normal temps for air cooling this processor?

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Post by DaIceMan » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:00 pm

difference in core temps could be because one "side" of the cooler is not as tight as the other. Try moving the cooler around VERY gently while it's running coretemp and see if you can get the temps to drop. If so, generally tightening that side/corner a bit more can help.

With my Tuniq Tower, the temps went up when moved in any direction, so we determined mine was positioned just right.
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Post by camaroguy1998 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:01 am

This may be a stupid check but you never know.
Are you sure HSF is mounted properly (ie:not backwards)
I dont know if this would be an issue on your setup but some older ones it is!
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Post by TristanM » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:21 am

camaroguy1998 wrote:This may be a stupid check but you never know.
Are you sure HSF is mounted properly (ie:not backwards)
I dont know if this would be an issue on your setup but some older ones it is!
Nice one. I didn't think to ask him about the direction of the fan, just whether it was spinning or not... Anyway, Ken's kindly gone to have a look to see if he can find anything C might've missed.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions...

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Post by CMcguire » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:51 pm

Well a big thanks to ken for coming over and checking out my system... there seems to have been two problems.. and both seem to be scythe problems..

For one the plastic clips(pegs) on the ninja were loose.. ie. when locked in they did not apply sufficent pressure between the cpu and heatsink.. this is a manufacturing error as its nothing to do with how you clip them in there is a gap when the clip is fully... um clipped.. even the intel stock cooler clips were far tighter then this..

Second thing is the fan runs too slow to cope.. this isn't really a design issue but more of a warning.. it wont cope with the heat from the quad core.. so if you are going to use it get a better fan .. but because of clips issue its still going to struggle...

The way we got around the clip issue was to fashion a mounting system out of some nuts,bolts, and metal/plastic washers

Temps now are about 45 idle and up to 75 with orthos(x2) running.. still not great.. but basically i think the fan that came with the ninja is to blame for this..

So long story short..

1. Don't buy a scythe ninja (rev b) as the clips may not be secure when locked and the fan is just not fast enough to cope with today's processors.

2. Buy a cooler that has a back plate and screws in.. this way you can ensure its on tightly.



O and
THANKS KEN!!!!
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Post by kenc51 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:34 pm

No problem Conor! It was nice to finally meet.........I still say you should watercool it and see what it can really do...or if you wish, loan it to me and I'll do it...I promise to go gentle!! :finga:

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Post by TristanM » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:42 am

I see how it is. No thanks to me, eh? Some brother... :P

:mrgreen:

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Post by CMcguire » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:53 pm

o yeah ment to say thanks to you as well tris... guess i just got caught up in the game playing and it slipped my mine :P

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