help me out.

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hercules71185
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help me out.

Post by hercules71185 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:42 pm

I'm not stupid by any means about computers.
but, I have very little personal experience with intel systems vs amd.
I currently have an amd x2(brisbane) @2.85
and in the market for a new vid card.
I'm in debate. the 8800gt 512 or the 3870 and doing some aftermarket cooling to clock higher.
So far 8800gt pwns the 3870. So that looks like what I'm getting. Till the x2 3850 or 3870 comes out if its reasonable its mine. haha.
Now if I upgrade. Will I notice a difference from my processor to the phenom?
I know I SHOULD switch to intel. but, for the price of a new mobo and processor is it worth it? I have a good mobo and I like it. I'm, all about best for your dollar systems. I'm going slightly higher level than usual this time.
So I don't know to get the e8 series by intel and drop amd or just get the phenom.
Then the video card.. When is the x2 3850 coming out? would it be worth getting over the 8800gt?
I game at 1680 x 1050

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Re: help me out.

Post by martini161 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:56 pm

to upgrade to phenom, you would have to get a new mother board any way. phenoms are socket am2+. thats one thing i dont like about amd, they change their socket type too much soo you have to buy a new mobo more often. intel has been using lga 775 for (i think) about 3-4 years now, and it looks like they will continue to use it at least until nahalem

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Re: help me out.

Post by skier » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:58 pm

i thought Phenoms were backward compatible to regular AM2, disabling some AM2+ features
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hercules71185
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Re: help me out.

Post by hercules71185 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:36 pm

they are backwards compatible too. Some features are eliminated but, they do work fine. From the benchmarks they really don't seem to gain any benefit yet from am2+

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Re: help me out.

Post by dkarko » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:59 pm

martini161 wrote:to upgrade to phenom, you would have to get a new mother board any way. phenoms are socket am2+. thats one thing i dont like about amd, they change their socket type too much soo you have to buy a new mobo more often. intel has been using lga 775 for (i think) about 3-4 years now, and it looks like they will continue to use it at least until nahalem
Phenoms are backward compatible to AM2 as said, but you have to make sure there is a BIOS update for your motherboard.
Indeed intel has a stable socket, but that doesnt mean you can install a new intel on an old motherboard..
The cpu support is (very) limited by the chipset. So even if you have say a G965 chipset mobo you can't insert E8xxx or E6x50 processors. I think Amd's motherboards have longer lifespan than intel's in terms of upgradeability.
Of course there are some intel motherboards with old chipset that support everything but these are tweaked (take Asrock as an example) as the chipset was not meant to support them.
As a last example i upgraded my motherboard some time ago (which was less thatn a year old, a g965 one) in order buy one that will support the wolfdales/yorkfields (p35 chipset).

Now wether you should upgrade or not it depends on what you are willing to spend. If you upgrade to intel you have to change alot of things.
Intels are faster and higly overclockable, but phenom is not bad at all as long as the price is right (cheaper than a q6600 that is).
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Re: help me out.

Post by hercules71185 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:30 pm

anyone know if the phenom 9500 is overclockable? like a decent amount? Or if the only one that is able to clock , is the higher series that costs a bit more.
As for the intel. I want a computer that is an upgrade. Yet if the price is not WORTH it yet. Say 200 dollars for 10% isn't my result I'm looking for. If I should wait to upgrade my processor till something from AMD comes out.

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Re: help me out.

Post by w00fd06 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:53 pm

hercules71185 wrote:anyone know if the phenom 9500 is overclockable? like a decent amount? Or if the only one that is able to clock , is the higher series that costs a bit more.
the black series is unlocked, im pretty sure there is a 9500 black edition, but even so, they're not great overclockers, especially compared to the intel counterparts, i think the 9500 get up to 2.5/2.6max stable.
As for the intel. I want a computer that is an upgrade. Yet if the price is not WORTH it yet. Say 200 dollars for 10% isn't my result I'm looking for. If I should wait to upgrade my processor till something from AMD comes out.
At this point, it would be safe to go with Intel for now, don't spend too much, though, but as of right now, it doesn't look like AMD has anything spectacular planned until 2009 in terms of processors, considering phenom still doesn't perform that well even with the B3 stepping.

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Re: help me out.

Post by hercules71185 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:10 pm

the e8400 how does that compare to it?
Stock vs 4ghz? Is that processor really all that? Compared to a OC'd phenom or x2?
I'm talking about that 45nm in case there is another e8400 that isn't 45nm.
Compared to what I have will stock speeds be faster than mine? then OC'd how much stronger is it. I have YET to see a legit benchmark with these cpus

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Re: help me out.

Post by w00fd06 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:58 pm

every processor has it's ups and downs, the E8400 actually will perform better than the phenom in certain apps (that aren't multi-threaded) because of the higher core clocks and better architechture, but overall, the phenom will perform better, especially in data compression.
Compared to YOUR X2, the E8400 would beat it out in just about anything except for things that use the memory specifically, because most AMD processors since 2004 have had integrated memory controllers, as opposed to the intel processors which have to use the chipset to access the memory. (intel should start having IMCs in their processors by next year)
And a stock E8400 is 3.0Ghz, compared to your 2.8Ghz X2, and also factor in the much larger cache on the E8400(6Mb L2) compared to your...1Mb, I'm assuming, possibly 2Mb level 2, and don't even ASK about when it's overclocked, it may make you cry, :lol: considering the 5.4 Ghz "sbohdan" OCed the E8400 to.

PS: could someone point out if some of my facts are incorrect, thanks

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Re: help me out.

Post by hercules71185 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:55 am

So the phenom isn't as bad as it sounds? lol. I hear nothing but, horrid things about it. I'm doing this build in 2 steps.
Step 1 either phenom or mobo and processor combo.
Step 2 video card. I think the 8800gt 512mb.
I might also switch the steps depending. But, its being built within a few weeks. I just wnat to know if the processor should wait till AMD comes out with something better. or if I should wait on a new line of video cards...

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Re: help me out.

Post by Methious » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:17 pm

Before I throw my 2 cents in, how much ya want to bet some one (you know who you are) is going to jump in and say (in one form or another) "Intel pwns Amd" we already know that. Big :shock:

There's a whole thread on Phenom 9500 over http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... 82&page=10

Generally speaking the reviews I've seen the X2 6400 black at stock has about the same performance as the Phenom 9500 beating the Phenom very slightly in some areas. My thread on it is here: http://forums.legitreviews.com/about13093.html. Mines mostly X2 with a few phenom users dropping in.

I run about 10-14% slower at stock speeds than the Intel 6750 in a good overclockers hands, logic being phenom 9500 and X2 6400 run neck in neck, 6750 out performs both. Bang for buck wise I ran about 45-50% of the cost of the high end Intel. Mobo ran 99, x2 6400 processor 159. Phenom on the Egg 189. E8400 219, q6600 277.

At $268 mobo and processor I'm not unhappy with it, with the 8800gt 512 I can push 12000 3dmarks, 400fps lightsmark, and that's not even maxed out. I'm waiting on the Phenom though, most of what I run gets more benefit from the higher clock speed of the dual core.
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Re: help me out.

Post by dkarko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:53 pm

hercules71185 wrote:So the phenom isn't as bad as it sounds? lol. I hear nothing but, horrid things about it.
I Think the whole deal with phenom is that it didnt live up to the expectations at all. Mediocre performance, high wattage at high speeds and in general unable to compete with intel quads in performance. It makes a very good choice for a budget system (like athlon x2) in my opinion.
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