XP or Vista?

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:26 pm

bandieramonte wrote:1) Does Vista 64 bit has a good support for the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Sound Card ( 70SB073A00000 ) ?
Creative generally has bad support for all operating systems, it's not a matter of the OS's supporting their cards.

That being said, I've got my Audigy 2 ZS working in Vista 64-bit, so I'd be surprised if Creative doesn't have working drivers for their X-fi line yet.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by vicaphit » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:42 pm

dual boot sounds like the best idea. DX9 games would run much better in XP than vista, unless you have all of Vista's pretty graphics turned off.

That would require you to buy both OS, and that is expensive.

If I had the computer you will be getting, I would put vista in just because you probably won't see a difference between the 2 OS.
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:59 pm

Zelig wrote:
bandieramonte wrote:1) Does Vista 64 bit has a good support for the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Sound Card ( 70SB073A00000 ) ?
Creative generally has bad support for all operating systems, it's not a matter of the OS's supporting their cards.

That being said, I've got my Audigy 2 ZS working in Vista 64-bit, so I'd be surprised if Creative doesn't have working drivers for their X-fi line yet.
64-bit works fine for my extreme Music (as well as any other Creative drivers for me so far, which isn't saying much). One caveat is that Vista has redone the sound engine and remove directsound (OpenAL and ASIO still work well though). What this means is that some "not so old" games that use directsound only for surround only work in stereo (GuildWars, CoD2 come to mind but there are plenty). Creative has provided Alchemy to allow these games to use full surround with EAX.

Alchemy (Vista 32 and 64 bit) = http://us.creative.com/support/download ... &details=1

List of Alchemy supported games (click the "Games List" tab) = http://www.soundblaster.com/alchemy/

Creative 64 bit drivers (please note that I did a "driver only" install and not any of the Creative apps as they are C#%P IMHO) = http://us.creative.com/support/download ... &x=27&y=11
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DemonicDerek » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:25 pm

bandieramonte wrote:Hello everyone;

I'm about to finally get my new machine and I'm having a hard time deciding whether if I should install XP or Vista. My primary concern is gaming.

I want to get the best performance, while at the same time get the best image quality. So, this is hard for me because I know that games perform better on XP, while XP can't activate DirectX10. To help you help me, here I also post some of my new machine's specs:

4GB OCZ Reaper PC6400 CAS4 800 mhz
(2x) Geforce 8800GTS Pcie 512MB GDDR3 3PORT Dual Dvi Tv Out Oc SLI
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Sound Card ( 70SB073A00000 )
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 quad-core processor, 2.40GHz, 8M L2 Cache, LGA 775
Nforce 680I Lga 775 Dc MAX-8GB DDR2 Atx 4PCIE 2PCI X-fi Aud Esata

Since my machine will have far more memory than what a 32 bit OS supports, I would need a 64 bit OS. I have heard that the support for XP 64 bit OS is terrible.
So I really need your help to decide the best OS for my machine considering my primary concern.

Thanks a lot.
I would say that what you shoud do is get XPSP2 and then download a cool feature my friend has that allows him to have the aero desktop (looks like vista but is really XP). Then also there are downloads out there to allow DX 10 on XP.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:53 pm

DemonicDerek wrote:
bandieramonte wrote:Hello everyone;

I'm about to finally get my new machine and I'm having a hard time deciding whether if I should install XP or Vista. My primary concern is gaming.

I want to get the best performance, while at the same time get the best image quality. So, this is hard for me because I know that games perform better on XP, while XP can't activate DirectX10. To help you help me, here I also post some of my new machine's specs:

4GB OCZ Reaper PC6400 CAS4 800 mhz
(2x) Geforce 8800GTS Pcie 512MB GDDR3 3PORT Dual Dvi Tv Out Oc SLI
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Sound Card ( 70SB073A00000 )
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 quad-core processor, 2.40GHz, 8M L2 Cache, LGA 775
Nforce 680I Lga 775 Dc MAX-8GB DDR2 Atx 4PCIE 2PCI X-fi Aud Esata

Since my machine will have far more memory than what a 32 bit OS supports, I would need a 64 bit OS. I have heard that the support for XP 64 bit OS is terrible.
So I really need your help to decide the best OS for my machine considering my primary concern.

Thanks a lot.
I would say that what you shoud do is get XPSP2 and then download a cool feature my friend has that allows him to have the aero desktop (looks like vista but is really XP). Then also there are downloads out there to allow DX 10 on XP.
No such thing as a download that will give you DX10 on XP (might give you a bit of a bug though).

While you can use third party apps to give you a Vista "look" and "close" to some Vista features Windowblinds is NOT Aero (have run Stardock apps since the OS2 Warp days). My experience with Windowblinds is that it is cool on XP but, even though I can get the Vista enabled version for free I have no need to.

Two of the biggest complaints against Vista are:

1. It is too expensive

To answer point #1

From Newegg as of this writing:

Windows Vista Home Premium (OEM) = $109.99
Windows MCE 2005 (the closest "out of the box" to Vista Home Premium) OEM = $114.99

Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit (OEM) = $179.99
Windows XP Pro SP2 (The closest thing to Vista Ultimate but not even close in features) OEM = $139.99

When you add the price of ObjectDesktop apps (roughly $20 each) the price difference almost points to Vista being cheaper than XP on a new system but Vista has added security and search features. As well you need to add to a Vista Ultimate vs. XP Pro system the cost of Ghost or Acronis .

2. Vista is a resource "HOG"

While Vista has it's issues. from what I've read Vista is actually more "resource efficient" especially with RAM. Features like "Readyboost" (for lower RAM systems), and "Superfetch" actually, for those of us not stuck in the "DOS" realm of free memory is a must (my belief is that unused RAM is a waste of my money).

I have had about, oh I don't know, ZERO issues with Vista on several systems of varying ages. That is not to say that anyone else has not had very real issues but, in my experience so far, I haven't met any...





http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/51 ... ?tag=fdpop

Windowblinds can give you "kind of" a Vista Aero look but it's a 3rd party app
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:50 am

Thanks for your explanations.
With every day that passes, I get even more inclined towards installing Vista on my new incoming system.

Now, this really interests me: Do the downloads for XP to enable DX10 really exist? With these downloads, will I be able to play DX10 on the very high settings on XP? Games as UT2007 and World In Conflict? If they do exist, is it a download for every game? And do they work EXACTLY the same as on vista and without bugs?

I ask all these questions because if this is really true, then I would really consider installing XP and forgetting that Vista even exists.
Thanks.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by capper » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:52 am

You only have one choice if you wanna use the full 4GB of your memory.Vista X64 is the way to go.Don't ever install XP 64 bit.It sucks.No antivirus applications support & you'll also not find drivers for most of your devices.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:26 pm

bandieramonte wrote:Thanks for your explanations.
With every day that passes, I get even more inclined towards installing Vista on my new incoming system.

Now, this really interests me: Do the downloads for XP to enable DX10 really exist? With these downloads, will I be able to play DX10 on the very high settings on XP? Games as UT2007 and World In Conflict? If they do exist, is it a download for every game? And do they work EXACTLY the same as on vista and without bugs?

I ask all these questions because if this is really true, then I would really consider installing XP and forgetting that Vista even exists.
Thanks.
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While I may be wrong, I don't see this working well if at all. Some linkage:

http://letskilldave.com/archive/2006/10 ... 2E00_.aspx

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=370

This page actually shows a DX10 to DX9 comparison screenshot from Flight Simulator, but it doesn't state whether it was taken on XP using these Alky libraries and, while I'm not an expert I don't think that, with the fundamental graphics subsystem differences between Vista and XP (and with MS wanting to "end of life" XP ) that "true" DX10 will ever happen on XP. Also I would think that the XP driver would play a big part in supporting DX10.

http://www.techmixer.com/download-direc ... indows-xp/

In short I would:

1. Go Vista Ultimate 64 and enjoy or,

2. Dual boot Vista 64-bit and XP 32-bit if you are bothered by Vista performance in DX9 and can afford it.
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:09 pm

Whaaaaaat? There is this guy who is really trying to enable DX10 on XP....!

Is this really feasible? Is it really worth it to install XP and to wait for DX10 support for XP?

Anyways, I don't really think this is possible.... But if it gets to be possible, this news would greatly devastate the Vista selling....

So I guess I will stick with your idea. I will initially install Vista 64 and play some DX10 games such as Crysis and World In Conflict, as well as DX9 games such as Gothic 3, NeverWinterNights 2, DOOM3 and the like. If performance is poor, I will have to play DX9 games in XP using dual boot, and I would have to suffer to play DX10 games condemned to Vista..... I don't see any other viable solution..

Thanks.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Cannyone » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:16 am

I got the opportunity to participate in the Vista beta because a friend of mine was working at Microsoft. The problem was that both of the times I tried to install it, the video would "power down" my LCD and I couldn't recover without reinstalling XP. For reporting this issue twice (for different release candidates), Microsoft "rewarded" me by sending me a retail copy of Vista Ultimate. And being the "Tech Guy" that I am, I decided I should use it. Really I thought there would be a value in knowing "how to configure" Vista.

Last Monday, I ordered a new copy of XP and proceeded to perform a fresh install using a copy I already had. Today I received my new copy of XP. And I can't help but want to kick myself for ever trying Vista. Now I know some of you undoubtedly think Vista is ok. To which I would opine that "DeNial" isn't just a river in Egypt. Because really basic OS features like disk to disk transfers (presuming you have 2 hard drives) is ridiculously slow! I could go on and on about all the stupid sh!t I've had to put up with for the last nine months. Instead I'll just say this: It's so nice to be back using XP!
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:06 am

Cannyone wrote:Because really basic OS features like disk to disk transfers (presuming you have 2 hard drives) is ridiculously slow!
It's better in SP1, I'm getting speeds over 100 MB/s from one of my RAID 0 arrays to the other.

And Vista has better support for multiple cores and large amounts of memory, running 4GB+ and quad core on XP is wasting potential.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:13 pm

There is more controversy and dissatisfaction with Vista than any other single piece of software in the past decade. Avoid the headache and stick with XP...at least for a while yet. Just my 2cents. Hell there are even interviews with Bill Gates where he admits the problems with Vista. Granted...other OS's of the past had their share of problems, even XP, but they never went to this extent or lasted this long.

I will be installing XP Pro on the new build with a Q6600 and I will be sure to run lots of benches for all your viewing pleasure. At this point in time, you could give me a free copy of Vista and it would just collect dust or serve as a fine coaster in my dining room. :mrgreen:

Yes, Vista is a resource hog!

And finally, No, XP does not support DX10...

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by w00fd06 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:58 pm

ibleet wrote:There is more controversy and dissatisfaction with Vista than any other single piece of software in the past decade.
OS X Leopard is starting to catch up, it needs way more RAM than Tiger, thus we have the pop-off cover under the RAM in the new iMacs.

Although, Vista has less productivity out of the box, nothing file sharing networks can't fix! :mrgreen:

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:14 pm

bandieramonte wrote:Hello everyone;

I'm about to finally get my new machine and I'm having a hard time deciding whether if I should install XP or Vista. My primary concern is gaming.

I want to get the best performance, while at the same time get the best image quality. So, this is hard for me because I know that games perform better on XP, while XP can't activate DirectX10. To help you help me, here I also post some of my new machine's specs:

4GB OCZ Reaper PC6400 CAS4 800 mhz
(2x) Geforce 8800GTS Pcie 512MB GDDR3 3PORT Dual Dvi Tv Out Oc SLI
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Sound Card ( 70SB073A00000 )
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 quad-core processor, 2.40GHz, 8M L2 Cache, LGA 775
Nforce 680I Lga 775 Dc MAX-8GB DDR2 Atx 4PCIE 2PCI X-fi Aud Esata

Since my machine will have far more memory than what a 32 bit OS supports, I would need a 64 bit OS. I have heard that the support for XP 64 bit OS is terrible.
So I really need your help to decide the best OS for my machine considering my primary concern.

Thanks a lot.
From the OP quote above he wants the best image quality (his performance is covered by the beast he's building), that would mean DX10 = Vista.

To fully use his 4GB RAM means 64-bit and XP 64-bit is bad and will not get any better as MS has no reason to spend money on it = Vista 64-bit.

While Vista has gotten it's share of bad press XP got a TON of it on release and it's detractors lasted much longer I mean SP2 took what, 3 years to be released, and was initally plaqued by broken apps and connectivity. XP had the same resource and pricing issues as well as issues with activation (I well remember the problems with my $10.00 "Customer Preview" release).

While Vista does have some issues in SOME cases IMHO the good outweighs the bad. The issues I had upgrading from 2000 to XP Pro were absent in my switch to Vista entirely and fully functioning driver availability for my PSC-2175 was my only problem (HPs fault not MS). I have upgraded all of my PCs and several friends to Vista without a hitch.

Not everyone has done so unscathed and I'm sure that there are software incompatibilities (as with XP), driver issues (as with XP). And in some cases remaining with XP is a good idea but IMHO building a new gaming rig, especially with the specs stated above, is probably not one of them. By this time next year most of these issues will be resolved and forgotten just like XPs growing pains were and many more games that make effective use of the DX10 engine will be out.

Most of Vistas bad press is exactly that , bad press, (my DeNial ridden opinion that is) and I predict that we will see the exact same cycle of "Wow it's coming, cant wait to upgrade" to "Wow this bites I can't wait until the 1st SP" and "Dont switch, downgrade to Vista!" when Windows 7 hits the street ](*,)

Till then enjoy Vista, XP, one of the zillion distros of Linux, or OSX and rock on (I personally miss OS/2).
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:04 pm

Yes, I have been doing a lot of research on all this OS topic, and every time I'm even more inclined on installing Vista 64 bit. Is easy:

1) My rig will withstand the higher resource requirements of Vista easy enough.

2) My 4 GB of RAM + my 1GB of VRAM will strictly require a 64 bit OS. So it's roughly XP 64 Bit Vs Vista 64 bit. And taking in account the horrible support for XP 64 bit, this is very easy to decide.

3) I do REALLY want DirectX 10, so vista all the way.

4) I've also found out that Vista Ultimate will be the ultimate OS for gaming for the future. So I want to be gaming future proof too.

5) When it's about setting up a whole new machine, installing Vista is much more recommended, but when upgrading from XP to vista with old hardware, then it's not pretty much recommended. In my case, I'm setting up a whole new rig.

If anyone has any objections to my conclusions, feel free to correct me.

One last thing. I also found out that installing a pirated version of windows vista disables the Aero Glass interface, which many have said that it's cool enough. I want to ask, what other features are disabled when using a pirated vista? Is DirectX10 also disabled?

Thanks.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by stopthekilling77 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:10 pm

bandieramonte wrote:Yes, I have been doing a lot of research on all this OS topic, and every time I'm even more inclined on installing Vista 64 bit. Is easy:

1) My rig will withstand the higher resource requirements of Vista easy enough.

2) My 4 GB of RAM + my 1GB of VRAM will strictly require a 64 bit OS. So it's roughly XP 64 Bit Vs Vista 64 bit. And taking in account the horrible support for XP 64 bit, this is very easy to decide.

3) I do REALLY want DirectX 10, so vista all the way.

4) I've also found out that Vista Ultimate will be the ultimate OS for gaming for the future. So I want to be gaming future proof too.

5) When it's about setting up a whole new machine, installing Vista is much more recommended, but when upgrading from XP to vista with old hardware, then it's not pretty much recommended. In my case, I'm setting up a whole new rig.

If anyone has any objections to my conclusions, feel free to correct me.

One last thing. I also found out that installing a pirated version of windows vista disables the Aero Glass interface, which many have said that it's cool enough. I want to ask, what other features are disabled when using a pirated vista? Is DirectX10 also disabled?

Thanks.
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:25 pm

bandieramonte wrote:One last thing. I also found out that installing a pirated version of windows vista disables the Aero Glass interface, which many have said that it's cool enough. I want to ask, what other features are disabled when using a pirated vista? Is DirectX10 also disabled?
Like the poster above said, you're really better off buying the OS.

Do you really need Vista Ultimate? Check out the included features, and see if Home Premium (or Home Basic, if you don't want Aero) will work for you.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by w00fd06 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:04 pm

Zelig wrote:Do you really need Vista Ultimate? Check out the included features, and see if Home Premium (or Home Basic, if you don't want Aero) will work for you.
Zelig is right, there are only a few extra features in Ultimate, and you can just get Home Premium 64 if you want those 4 gigs of RAM.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:07 pm

Heck I haven't still installed any OS yet. I'm asking if it's worth the money to install the original version. What does the original version has that the pirated version doesn't have? Is DirectX10 available on a pirated version?

If it's worthy to have the original version then I will do whatever it's necessary to find more money to buy myself the original vista. I ran out of moeny when buying the hardware :(

Thanks.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:11 pm

Nobody here will discuss pirated software. My advice = "Dont' do it." I'm suprised the thread isn't locked or deleted yet.

That said, if you know someone who has the disk I believe it is legal to install it in a "trial" mode without a key and it will be good for 30 days I think. Should allow you evaluate it pretty well.

Also note that the prices I listed in a previous post are for OEM licenses that when installed on a PC are non-transferrable to another PC. If you have a valid XP install you may want to look at upgrade pricing. Running in trial mode will also give you breathing room :)
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