XP or Vista?

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Cannyone
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Cannyone » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:38 pm

Zelig wrote:
Cannyone wrote:Because really basic OS features like disk to disk transfers (presuming you have 2 hard drives) is ridiculously slow!
It's better in SP1, I'm getting speeds over 100 MB/s from one of my RAID 0 arrays to the other.

And Vista has better support for multiple cores and large amounts of memory, running 4GB+ and quad core on XP is wasting potential.
I am acutely aware of the fact that XP is "wasting potential" with some of my hardware. #-o And I was hoping that SP1 would indeed fix the issues that are the most prevalent. However, what really buggs me is Microsoft's attitude about the situation. I didn't feel like "testing" their beta software (specifically SP1 beta), so my problems must not be that bad. And now that they've finished the Service Pack, they don't want to let me use it for 6 weeks... As if to punish me, or something, for not "participating".

At the same time, now that I've gone back to XP, I look back on other Vista features, like the UAC, and I wonder why I really need what Microsoft is offering? My conclusion is that the only reason I've stayed with Microsoft's Operating Systems is for gaming. And now that impetus almost seems to be obsolete. See I don't play WoW anymore. I don't play any other MMORPG either. I haven't tried to play some of the FPS, for a long while. Primarily because they all seem so much the same to me. And no other PC game offers the type of experience that I enjoyed in Fallout 1&2, or Diablo 2, or Privateer,... etc. Yeah I know Hellgate London was supposed to be like Diablo 2, but somehow it's not the same at all. Well maybe I just got sidetracked.

See I got an Xbox 360 last October. The adjustment of moving to the controller wasn't easy. Though I'd had a few consoles in the past. However, the games have really progressed from the time that I used to play on the N64, Saturn and Playstation. And considering how easy it is to play co-op games, and just keep in touch with friends, on Xbox Live. I'm starting to at least conceive of the notion that a gaming console could take the place of a PC, at least for gaming.

And that simple concept, changes everything! It means I don't have to constantly upgrade my hardware. It means I don't have to worry about about "how badly Microsoft can screw things up?" Ahem! It even means I might consider using a "Mac", or learning to use Linux. But what I am certain it means is that I don't have to upgrade my OS!, even when Microsoft decides to pull the plug on XP. Heck!, by that time, all you Vista users will be the target for viruses, and XP will be ignored like a red-headed step child.
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Cannyone » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:42 pm

capper wrote:...No antivirus applications support & you'll also not find drivers for most of your devices.
Actually that's not true! But Vista, including the x64 version, still sucks! At least in my, not so Humble, opinion. :P
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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:42 am

Sorry for my posts regarding pirated Vista. I didn't know that even talking about that is wrong. I'm new to all this hardware and software talking, I'm new to all these forums.

I live in a country where it's very difficult to import things because of the severe control exchange we have here, preventing us from bringing stuff from the outside. But even so, I did my efforts and found an intern seller who has original copies of Vista and decided to buy it.

I do really dislike playing console games, it's too simple and childish for my likes. The computer games in my personal opinion and tastes, are more complete and professional, and the most important thing is, with the correct hardware, the graphical quality of the games using DirectX10 with Vista is far superior than the graphical quality offered by the best consoles . These are enough reasons for me to use vista even with all its known driver issues, performance degrades, etc etc.

All this is my initial attitude towards the present topic. When I finally get my rig, install vista and start to play DirectX10 games, and start to have the vista problems that everyone here talks about, then it's when I will really personally judge whether if it's worthy to really have all this mess because of DirectX10. There I will have a more solid decision. Time will tell...

Thanks everyone for all help.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:17 am

bandieramonte wrote: All this is my initial attitude towards the present topic. When I finally get my rig, install vista and start to play DirectX10 games, and start to have the vista problems that everyone here talks about, then it's when I will really personally judge whether if it's worthy to really have all this mess because of DirectX10. There I will have a more solid decision. Time will tell...
I'm just curious as to why you even asked our opinion on Vista if you already had your mind made up. I typically ask for opinions only when I'm on the fence, and then I go with the majority, assuming that I respect their opinion in the first place. My opinion still stands...it is NOT worth all that mess for DX10...it just isn't...but now you can be the judge as personal experience is always best.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:00 am

ibleet wrote:
bandieramonte wrote: All this is my initial attitude towards the present topic. When I finally get my rig, install vista and start to play DirectX10 games, and start to have the vista problems that everyone here talks about, then it's when I will really personally judge whether if it's worthy to really have all this mess because of DirectX10. There I will have a more solid decision. Time will tell...
I'm just curious as to why you even asked our opinion on Vista if you already had your mind made up. I typically ask for opinions only when I'm on the fence, and then I go with the majority, assuming that I respect their opinion in the first place. My opinion still stands...it is NOT worth all that mess for DX10...it just isn't...but now you can be the judge as personal experience is always best.
Excuse me?

You didn't even read all this thread right? Didn't you see all the positive votes for Vista? I said what I said on my previous post because of all the things I read in this thread. I made my mind AFTER reading all the posts of this thread and then I wrote my previous post to conclude.

It's disappointing to have someone think this about me. I'm not silly as to start an opinion thread to not even consider the opinions.

I do respect your opinion although. But if the majority here is voting for Vista, then obviously I will support the majority's opinion, and this was my idea for starting this thread: to see if the majority voted for vista.

Thanks everyone for your help on making me up a decision.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:02 pm

Well you said that one of the deciding factors was DX10, and its clear that XP will always outperform Vista in games, regardless of DX10, so whats really the point behind that argument? I also noticed that many people who voted for Vista, did so with reservation, or simply said, "well since you're running 4GB ram", or "well since you already have a DX10 card", but no one was really totally "Gung Ho"?

So to answer your question...YES, I read every post, but I read more between the lines, and to me your decision was based on what you wanted to hear rather that what was actually said.

Don't get offended by my opinions, we're all friends here. No reason to get your panties all in a wad. :mrgreen:

Vista is a "love-hate" relationship...You either love to hate it, or you hate to love it....but both seem to apply.

And just to be fair, I will change my vote to "dual boot". :P

Enjoy your Vista, as I will be waiting for your honest impressions! 8)

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:22 pm

ibleet wrote:Well you said that one of the deciding factors was DX10, and its clear that XP will always outperform Vista in games, regardless of DX10, so whats really the point behind that argument?
That's not true, Vista has far better support for multiple processors and large amounts of memory, and actually outperforms XP in games now in some situations, and is comparable in most others.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:46 pm

ibleet wrote:Well you said that one of the deciding factors was DX10, and its clear that XP will always outperform Vista in games, regardless of DX10, so whats really the point behind that argument? I also noticed that many people who voted for Vista, did so with reservation, or simply said, "well since you're running 4GB ram", or "well since you already have a DX10 card", but no one was really totally "Gung Ho"?

So to answer your question...YES, I read every post, but I read more between the lines, and to me your decision was based on what you wanted to hear rather that what was actually said.

Don't get offended by my opinions, we're all friends here. No reason to get your panties all in a wad. :mrgreen:

Vista is a "love-hate" relationship...You either love to hate it, or you hate to love it....but both seem to apply.

And just to be fair, I will change my vote to "dual boot". :P

Enjoy your Vista, as I will be waiting for your honest impressions! 8)
??

Friend... I got no time to blabber along with you.

It is not necessary to complicate the things.... Let's keep ts as simple as it is:
I want to play DirectX10 games, period. Vista is the only OS that offers it, and I also needed this thread to clarify me whether if DX10 is available on XP too or not. XP may only perform better in DX9 games since it can't even play DX10 games....

So it's impossible to have based my decision on things I wanted to hear.. XP can't even satisfy me since it can't play DX10 games. This thread gave me even more reasons to install Vista other than DX10.

This is simple enough huh? No need to complicate. I already achieved my goal with this thread.

Have a nice day.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:11 pm

Like I said, you had your mind made up in advance...case closed. No need to get hostile with me...I don't need that crap. Its not my fault that you cannot debate a matter as a mature adult. I don't know why you go right for hostility. Its not very mature to refer to my opinion as blabber.

So, you're saying we can't be friends because we disagree on one small matter? Fine by me...your choice not mine.

You Vista lovers can disagree with me all you want, but fact of the matter is this:

I loaded Vista onto this comp and ran benchmarks. I couldn't even score 10k 3DMarks with Vista and I scored over 13k 3DMarks with XP...go figure. I had tons of driver issues with Vista and none with XP...again, go figure.

Next time you ask for opinions, be prepared to accept them all...good or bad...whether its what you want to hear or not!

Good Day..I wash my hands of this thread.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by w00fd06 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:26 pm

Before this gets out of hand: http://forums.legitreviews.com/about3.html

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:27 pm

ibleet wrote:Like I said, you had your mind made up in advance...case closed. No need to get hostile with me...I don't need that crap. Its not my fault that you cannot debate a matter as a mature adult. I don't know why you go right for hostility. Its not very mature to refer to my opinion as blabber.

So, you're saying we can't be friends because we disagree on one small matter? Fine by me...your choice not mine.

You Vista lovers can disagree with me all you want, but fact of the matter is this:

I loaded Vista onto this comp and ran benchmarks. I couldn't even score 10k 3DMarks with Vista and I scored over 13k 3DMarks with XP...go figure. I had tons of driver issues with Vista and none with XP...again, go figure.

Next time you ask for opinions, be prepared to accept them all...good or bad...whether its what you want to hear or not!

Good Day..I wash my hands of this thread.
You left me speechless. May God help you.
Zelig wrote:
ibleet wrote:Well you said that one of the deciding factors was DX10, and its clear that XP will always outperform Vista in games, regardless of DX10, so whats really the point behind that argument?
That's not true, Vista has far better support for multiple processors and large amounts of memory, and actually outperforms XP in games now in some situations, and is comparable in most others.
This is really interesting. I didn't know that Vista performed better than XP is some games. Can you happen to please display here a list of such games? This can help me decide to see which games to buy when I install vista.
Thanks.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:01 pm

bandieramonte wrote:This is really interesting. I didn't know that Vista performed better than XP is some games. Can you happen to please display here a list of such games? This can help me decide to see which games to buy when I install vista.
Thanks.
Unfortunately, I've had very little time to game recently (other than Civ4, fabulous game), so don't have as much information on this as I might otherwise. Supreme Commander on huge maps and The Witcher both run into memory issues on 32-bit systems, neither are DX10, but you should see smoother gameplay in Vista, even if the fps is similar.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Zelig wrote:
ibleet wrote:Well you said that one of the deciding factors was DX10, and its clear that XP will always outperform Vista in games, regardless of DX10, so whats really the point behind that argument?
That's not true, Vista has far better support for multiple processors and large amounts of memory, and actually outperforms XP in games now in some situations, and is comparable in most others.
Zelig wrote:Unfortunately, I've had very little time to game recently (other than Civ4, fabulous game), so don't have as much information on this as I might otherwise. Supreme Commander on huge maps and The Witcher both run into memory issues on 32-bit systems, neither are DX10, but you should see smoother gameplay in Vista, even if the fps is similar.
Thats all you got? After emphatically shutting my statement down, I was hoping for more! :mrgreen:

Listen guys, I got a bit carried away in this thread. Sometimes I let my distaste for Vista overshadow my better judgement. I'm glad we can have a healthy debate and still get along. 8)

I am genuinely curious what your impressions will be once you have had some experience with Vista. Just because I have had a bad experience, doesn't meat that you will. Please keep the thread posted.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by DaddyRabbit » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:06 pm

Cool ibleet, truce called :) No flames here.

The real fact is that some of us have bad experiences with ANY OS (or hardware) upgrades and we all have different needs. I have actually had great experiences with Vista on several levels of hardware (some considered ancient by enthusiast standards) and have had almost zero issues recommending it to friends and family (and have had zero complaints so far).

From the "resource hog" standpoint IMHO too much of the old DOS "have to keep free RAM available" mentality prevails here. Superfetch actually USES the RAM I paid for by improving my most frequently used programs load times. I paid for the RAM it should be used all the time not just when I occasionaly load a game.

As for drivers, and this is a sticky point with me (especially with HP and Creative). MS is in the applications and OS business not the hardware and driver business. IMHO they go out of their way to, at least, give basic functionality for hundreds of thousands of 3rd party hardware configurations that they make zero dollars on. If a hardware vendor builds a "spanky new" product that they'll make millions on why is it Microsofts fault that the drivers suck and Microsofts job to pay developers to write drivers for them? I've never understood this mindset.

Granted, most of us on this board are squarely in the "enthusiast" category but some of us are "enthuasists in training". When you stated that "nobody was gung-ho" about Vista, well I was. I am not a MS HO but until I can find an OS other than Vista (or XP) that can meet my productivity needs, allows me to game as I wish, and that I can also recommend to my Mom I have to go with Vista.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by ibleet » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:28 am

Thats cool man, I do appreciate your perspective. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the driver issue, and that is the single most aggravating issue remaining with Vista. I have heard lots of people praise the prefetch system in utilizing the ram and I have to admit that its a nice bonus.

I will undoubtedly give Vista another try once most of the issues with drivers has been ironed out. Heck, you think I don't wanna play my new games with DX10? Hell yes I do! :mrgreen:

The fact of the matter is, that I still run into people who have issues with Vista and ask me to remove it and reinstall XP.

Ya, there are no flames here...never were. I was just having a lively discussion as I like when I am challenged, as well as challenging others. Sometimes I get carried away, but that is just my nature. I never intended to get anyone upset.

I still have the same opinion, and I think my expression rings true. Vista is a love / hate relationship...You either love to hate it, or you hate to love it. :mrgreen:

Thanks again for the great message, I do appreciate it! 8)

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by Zelig » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:18 am

ibleet wrote:
Zelig wrote:Thats all you got? After emphatically shutting my statement down, I was hoping for more! :mrgreen:
Hey, it was infinitely many times more than the 0 examples you gave. ;)

Like I said, I've been too swamped to do much gaming, I have a pile of new games that I haven't even installed.

Benchmark numbers between XP and Vista tend to be pretty similar, when Vista has an advantage, it tends to be in loading times, fewer "hiccups", more efficient multitasking, etc., rather than straight fps.

I'd actually like to see a good run of benchmarks done on XP and Vista, both properly configured, and with up to date drivers, there haven't been any decent comparisons since shortly after Vista's launch.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by bandieramonte » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:04 am

It's nice to know that I can count on this nice Vista feature SuperFetch I will give it a try to see how great it is.

What I'm planning to do is, considering all the info I've collected from this thread and the fact that some people say Vista is good while others say Vista is bad, the following:
I will install Vista Ultimate 64 bit, and give it a good try myself playing the many games I want to play as well as using all the working software I need. I will see the performance I get in every applications as well as possible bugs, installation errors, driver issues etc etc.
There are two possible outcomes:
1) Vista is in fact not bad as the Vista's opposition party says, and so I will in this case stick with Vista and completely forget about XP and enjoy.
2) I get too many problems with vista, the games' lags are far too unsupportable to the extent on which it's not justifiable to use Vista anymore. In this case I would then do dual boot with XP and use vista only to play DX10 games, since I got no choice => DX10 is only available for vista. I guess MS did this to receive a selling boost from the gamers' community. MS could have found a way to make DX10 available for XP, but well...

Now, considering my situation and thinking about all the things I've read from this thread and from other forums, I think that the 1st outcome is the more probable. I think this because I'm acquiring a new machine with new components, got plenty of ram, and got new legacy hardware which is vista friendly, and, according to Zelig, it's got more efficient multitasking which is convenient for me.

I'll wait to install vista and by that time, post again in this thread to tell my final personal verdict on vista. Not really final because in the worst case, MS will be launching better SP's to improve vista and it would be time to try again or see some benches to see if it's worthy.

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Re: XP or Vista?

Post by aloverof1 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:37 pm

i prefer xp....but i dont no because all new pc games r know in vista

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