Webcam - setup/hosting??

[bigblockmatt]

My girlfriend and sister run a child daycare. I gave them the idea about setting up a webcam so that parents could see what their kids are doing during the day. they liked the idea so now i have to figure out how to make it work (since it was my idea...) So, i have several questions:

1. What type of webcam? it would be on for 8-10 hours a day. Would want pretty good quality but don't need anything amazing.

2. hosting it? i dont know if that would be the right term. I would guess they would need some sort of 3rd party hosting so that the parents could log in somewhere and view the kids. along that, how would they be able to charge for it? since it will cost them some money to run it and such, they will want to charge the parents and extra 10-20 bucks a month for the service.

Any suggestions or comments would be great!! thanks!

[FZ1]

Check this out...I have one that I was using to keep an eye on my dogs. It's wireless and they offer free internet access:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BL-C131 ... 680&sr=8-1

[vicaphit]

I have one that I was using to keep an eye on my dogs.

We are getting further and further into an age where we don't even blink an eye at video surveillance... what if your dogs don't want to be watched?

[KnightRid]

http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/w ... lance.html

Older article, but with webcamXP you can use your own broadband connection to host the service with no online fees - just make sure you have enough bandwidth to support it. Even if you go with the one like FZ1 has said, you have to have enough upload bandwidth to send the data to the server to share.

You can also have multiple webcams for different angles, rooms, etc.

Webcams are your choice really - do you want them to be able to pan and tilt? I would think the computer and bandwidth will be more important than the webcam now a days. I do not think anyone would expect broadcast quality ;) ( although I would )

Mike

Oh and webcam xp allows the setting up of users and passwords so you can only allow those in that have paid. I am sure other programs do this also, but when searching, this was the first one I found that sounded simple and not so expensive.

[Darkstar]

I use a network camera myself;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-81121026

it has a built in web server so no hosting, just plug it into a switch or use the wireless. You can have the web interface customized with the child care centers name, different logins with passwords, ability to set a snapshot button, and you can even configure motion detection say, for after hours or weekends and have the camera email you the pics of what ever sets it off.

(Fz1, that panasonic looks pretty cool, good price for the package down below too)

[bigblockmatt]

Great info!! i will look into these things you suggested - at work now...

Do you know any systems/ways to have the people pay for being able to sign up? or if it allows mutliple users, is there some sort of approval process?

[DL126]

I use a network camera myself;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-81121026

it has a built in web server so no hosting, just plug it into a switch or use the wireless. You can have the web interface customized with the child care centers name, different logins with passwords, ability to set a snapshot button, and you can even configure motion detection say, for after hours or weekends and have the camera email you the pics of what ever sets it off.

I have 2 of these, and 11 more of various models from Axis running for 3 different customers.
2 of which are PTZ models.
IMO, you'd be hard pressed to find anything better or easier to set up.
But they ain't cheap! The wireless one that Darkstar linked above is the lowest price model we've bought so far.
The PTZ units were $1200.00 each!

Each camera will come with recording software that will allow recording if you desire on ONE camera only.
To record multiple units, you'd have to buy the full version of Axis Camera Station.
If I remember correctly, it was about $1100.00 for 10 camera capability.

They all allow for multiple users at once, and all users are required to supply a username & password.
To a small degree, you can even specify user rights per user.

If you'd like, I can set up a temporary account in one of them for you to peek in and see the quality.

Edit = Forgot to mention ... All units I've installed, except the wireless ones, are POE. That's what drew me to them from the start.

[Darkstar]

I actually won 2 of the $500 models, and purchased several more for work, they have alot of flexability but like DL126 says they are not cheap. I would love to get one of the PTZ cams for home, but they are out of my price range.

I dont know of anyway of charging per view unless you set up some logging and bill the customers. The easiest thing i can think of to do is set a flat fee and give out personal passwords to seperate logon accounts with payment.

[KnightRid]

Great info!! i will look into these things you suggested - at work now...

Do you know any systems/ways to have the people pay for being able to sign up? or if it allows mutliple users, is there some sort of approval process?

Oh and webcam xp allows the setting up of users and passwords so you can only allow those in that have paid. I am sure other programs do this also, but when searching, this was the first one I found that sounded simple and not so expensive.

Mike

I just cant see a daycare center needing to spend thousands of dollars on a system that wont earn them much of a return. If you get 50 people to sign up, then grab the equipment for thousands of dollars, but for maybe 10 people - stick with the basics or you will throw money away.

[bigblockmatt]

ya, i think webcam xp looks to be the way to go. if i read the site correctly, they have a 10 day trial. i think i will try it and see how it works with the multi user thing. if multiple users can log in and they can be regulated (ie if they dont pay a month, they accounts can be suspended or something), then it will work perfect.

Knightrid, do you know if there is a max amount of users allowed and/or max user logged in at one time?

[Darkstar]

the Doc;

http://www.darkwet.net/private/webcamxp5.pdf

it looks like a nice little program, let us know how it turns out..

[KnightRid]

ya, i think webcam xp looks to be the way to go. if i read the site correctly, they have a 10 day trial. i think i will try it and see how it works with the multi user thing. if multiple users can log in and they can be regulated (ie if they dont pay a month, they accounts can be suspended or something), then it will work perfect.

Knightrid, do you know if there is a max amount of users allowed and/or max user logged in at one time?

I do not think there is a limit - only limitations are the number of input sources and they are increased as you buy the higher packages. I still say the major limitation will be the bandwidth available - it takes quite a bit to stream live video at an acceptable fps and quality.

They have a free home user version, but that does not allow any users/passwords.

Mike

They also offer ip webcam support - I think it is free in the high end package, but will cost with any package below the highest - just incase you get ip webcams.

[bigblockmatt]

I tried out webcam XP and i think it will work perfect for this application. easy to set up. easy to maintain. setting up mutliple ID's was really easy and logging into the camera from elsewhere was really easy too!!
Thank you for the recommendation!!

One more question. What is the difference in an IP camera and a regular camera?

[KnightRid]

I tried out webcam XP and i think it will work perfect for this application. easy to set up. easy to maintain. setting up mutliple ID's was really easy and logging into the camera from elsewhere was really easy too!!
Thank you for the recommendation!!

One more question. What is the difference in an IP camera and a regular camera?

NP

ip cameras have their own ip address assigned right through your network, where normal ones do not. You should not need ip webcams for what you want to do.

I would recommend AGAINST getting any of the pan and tilt cameras out there, since multiple users will have to wait in queue to be able to move the camera or it will get real crazy. Fixed point webcams should be fine.

Mike

I would take some money and go to local stores and grab some webcams to test with - let them know that you want to test them for your application and make sure you can return them after being opened for a full refund. Hook a couple up and then test through the internet to see about quality. Once you determine the ones you want, either buy them local or just go online and snag them.

If you need some help to test through the internet for multiple users, just holler. I have at least 3 computers I can use to test, maybe 6 if I can get the kids, wifes laptop and the ps3 to go online

[smack323]

I have another 3 computers at home I could help out if you need to load up the system.

[bigblockmatt]

cool, thanks for the offer. I tested it at home with having 2 computers connecting and it worked great. i think they are going to start off with one camera and see what kind of response they get with people paying extra for the service. if i was a parent, i know i would pay for it. i would love to see my kids messing around during the day when i am not home (if i had kids of course)!!

[turnbui]

knightrd said "They have a free home user version, but that does not allow any users/passwords." earlier in this post. Being on a very limited budget is it possible to have a login on the web page and then go to another page [only for logged on users] that uses a single webcam via webcamXP?
Thanks for any help

[KnightRid]

knightrd said "They have a free home user version, but that does not allow any users/passwords." earlier in this post. Being on a very limited budget is it possible to have a login on the web page and then go to another page [only for logged on users] that uses a single webcam via webcamXP?
Thanks for any help

You could say have a login page, then transfer those users to the actual webcam page, but unless you hide the site they are going to and encode the login page so it does not reveal the url you will send them to, anyone can just use the last sites page as their entry point.

example

page1 - login page
page2 - webcam page

well without having logins on the webcam program itself, anyone can go to page2 directly (if they figure out the URL) without having to login.

It IS possible, but there are a lot of ways around it, if you know a bit about the internet and such.

Mike

Even with encoding in flash or something cimiliar, someone could rip the flash and find the URL...guess it would be fine if they are just soccer moms or something.

[turnbui]

Excellent answer. Not quite the one I wanted but thanks for your info.
If I were to keep a database of the IP of logged on users and anyone going to the page 2 [in your example] and page 2 executed a program that checked the IP for having logged on or not and build the web page dynamically from the program if logged on or build a "no entry" page for others - would this have a chance of working?
If so how would one go about this? If you know of any further reading I'd welcome it.

[KnightRid]

Excellent answer. Not quite the one I wanted but thanks for your info.
If I were to keep a database of the IP of logged on users and anyone going to the page 2 [in your example] and page 2 executed a program that checked the IP for having logged on or not and build the web page dynamically from the program if logged on or build a "no entry" page for others - would this have a chance of working?
If so how would one go about this? If you know of any further reading I'd welcome it.

You are over my head now I understand what you are saying but it will depend on whether or not you can adjust the webcam web page or not. I mean does the program make a page for you to enter usernames and passwords on, or does it allow you to create your own.

logging of ip's will be ok, but still not fool poof ;) You will never be able to tie an ip address to a certain account because of people using dial up, anonymizers, or just isp ip changes.

I guess like you said - have them login, record their IP at that time, then allow that ip into the 2nd page. If the IP does not match any that have just logged in, then boot them back to the login screen. You would also have to make it to auto logoff the people after a certain amount of time, or just immediately after their ip address vanishes.

Mike

Like I said - over my head for knowledge - maybe post a question in its own topic about how to do this, maybe more people would see it.