help troubleshooting

[hnzw_rui]

This is my first AMD build in years and it decided to die on me while trying to undervolt. Now, I'm having trouble trying to pinpoint what exactly is the problem.

MB: MSI 890GXM-G65
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T
HSF: Cooler Master Hyper TX3
RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3N9K2/4G (using just 1 stick for troubleshooting)
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD5670 512MB GDDR5 (removed while troubleshooting)
PSU: Antec Neo Eco 620C (same as Seasonic S12II?)

Symptom:
System won't turn on. The case fan and PSU fan jerks very slightly when the power switch is pressed.

I've removed all drives and extras. I tried using each of the sticks on different RAM slots. I've tried clearing CMOS and also tried removing the battery but still no go.

How reliable are power supply testers? I bought this: Antec Digital PSU Power Tester and it indicates that the PSU is working fine and within tolerances. I can try swapping out the PSU but I don't feel like gutting one of my other desktops at the moment.

I kinda have the feeling it's the motherboard that got killed. Unfortunately, I don't have a spare AMD CPU or motherboard on-hand to eliminate possible suspects. Any ideas?

[Major_A]

Try draining the capacitors. Pull the power plug out of the PSU and hold down the power button for 10 seconds. Reattach the plug and see what happens.

Side note:
I have a power supply tester (seen here) and from what I can tell it's only good for seeing if the power supply works yes or no. I don't have a multimeter to verify it's findings but it seems like it's in the ballpark with what EVEREST reports.

This might not help:
http://forums.legitreviews.com/about27495.html

[hnzw_rui]

Tried doing that, still nothing. The PSU fan continues running when it's plugged to the power supply tester. I think that's an indication that the problem lies elsewhere.

Oh well, seems like I've just got to bite the bullet. I think I'll just grab a Sempron 140 from Fry's. I recall seeing the tray version for $20. If it boots with the Sempron, then I RMA the Thuban. If not, I RMA the motherboard. *sigh* This is one reason I stuck to Intel after I built my first two LGA-775 systems - I'd have parts available to swap around for troubleshooting.

[Major_A]

Is the power supply working when connected to tester? In the post I linked to the PSU just decided to quit working for 24 hours then worked again with presumably no problems.

[hnzw_rui]

Is the power supply working when connected to tester? In the post I linked to the PSU just decided to quit working for 24 hours then worked again with presumably no problems.

Yeah. Power supply works just fine, at least according to the tester. I do plan on swapping out the PSU but at $20 for the processor, it's just like buying a pair of jeans. I figure it'll be handy to have.

[Major_A]

What were you undervolting? The CPU, HTT, RAM, chipsets? I don't know how undervolting is any different than overclocking and getting a hard lock or no boot. But if the power supply is working and the fans only twitch then I'd say it's the motherboard. Going on past experience it's a hell of a lot easier to kill the motherboard than it is the CPU (actually I don't think I've ever killed a CPU before).

[Raraniel]

Last time I had a mobo die, the case fans, cpu fan, and PSU fan would spin when power was turned on, despite the lack of a POST.

[hnzw_rui]

What were you undervolting? The CPU, HTT, RAM, chipsets? I don't know how undervolting is any different than overclocking and getting a hard lock or no boot. But if the power supply is working and the fans only twitch then I'd say it's the motherboard. Going on past experience it's a hell of a lot easier to kill the motherboard than it is the CPU (actually I don't think I've ever killed a CPU before).

I was undervolting the CPU. But yeah, I think I killed the motherboard, too. Just want to eliminate all possible suspects before I RMA. The MB+CPU was a combo from Fry's so the mobo was pretty much free.

[smilingbounder]

if you have another PSU I'd test it in the system. If you get the same problem then you'll be even more assured it's not the PSU. Also, you should try a single stick of RAM, and switch between RAM sticks to eliminate RAM as the culprit.

I just had to replace my mobo today, my old one died a couple weeks ago after overclocking. I think it was just a low quality mobo, wasn't meant for overclocking. Could be yours just didn't like the change in settings and decided to fry itself My problem was just like what Raraniel described, everything would power up. Fans, graphics card, etc. All the LED's came on. I wasn't even able to get into the BIOS though.


That probably doesn't help you at all, but you'll get it fixed. Keep us updated.

[kenc51]

Undervolting can be more stressfull on the mobo than overvolting in some senarios.
The power circuitry is designed to push stock vcore or higher, going lower on the vcore causes the mosfets to heat up quickly, especially with mobos that have ~4 phases.
I've killed a couple of boards doing this.

The thing to remember is cooling. Even if the cpu is running with good temps, you need some direct airflow around the socket, especially if you are going to try passive cooling. You don't need much airflow, but it does have to be going directly to the mosfets.
Case cooling alone isn't enough.

Ken

[Jodox]

Thinking its probably the motherboard as well, see tons of MSI boards not starting up. Seems like 80% of hardware problems is a faulty motherboard. My M3A78-EMH apparently can't handle the wattage of my cpu and has major instability issues, get like annoying 2 seconds stutters even in super old games like WC3.

[hnzw_rui]

Thanks for all the tips. I have a known working Corsair PSU and bought an AMD Sempron 140 just to eliminate the CPU as culprit altogether. I should be able to find time to work on the build (and a new Clarkdale-based one) tomorrow. After that, it's RMA time.

[smilingbounder]

Good luck man, let us know how it goes.

[hnzw_rui]

Motherboard's really dead. Placed an RMA request on MSI's website.

Spent the better part of the day working the Intel build. It's not exactly Clarkdale, though. I have a Lynnfield chip that's going to be used for a mini-workstation build and I figured I'll use it temporarily while I'm waiting for the Gigabyte H55N-USB3 to be available on Newegg/Amazon/eWiz.

[Major_A]

Why not take it back to Frys?

And don't forget to add ZZF to that list of etailers. When newegg wants to charge $20 shipping for an item ZZF has the same item shipped for free.

[hnzw_rui]

Why not take it back to Frys?

I'm already past 15 days. They've got a really short return period for motherboards and processors.

[smilingbounder]

Why not take it back to Frys?

I'm already past 15 days. They've got a really short return period for motherboards and processors.

Understandable, because a LOT of people "fry" those parts with ESD (electrostatic discharge). You would be surprised how many people are oblivious to the fact that you can ruin a part with a static shock small enough that you can't even feel it when you touch the part. That's why it's important to use an anti-static bracelet while working in a PC, and make sure you discharge yourself by touching a grounded piece of metal on the case. I have read that to make sure your case is grounded, it needs to be plugged into a power strip, but the strip needs to be turned OFF so you don't electrocute yourself while working on the computer. This makes it so when you touch the metal on the inside of the case it can discharge any static build up on you. Lastly, I've read it's a good idea to make sure to humidify the room you work on your computer in slightly by using a mist spray bottle and spraying a couple times into the air (NOT near the parts). Static builds up easier when the air is dry.

That's from my research on building PC's, and I practice it while working on my PC. Use the anti-static bracelet and make sure to touch a metal part in the case every 5 minutes or so to discharge, and so far I have not killed any parts other than when I overclocked and my crappy old mobo couldn't handle it

http://www.pcguide.com/byop/byop_Detect ... yParts.htm

Near the middle of that article it is said that ESD causes millions/billions of dollars in PC parts damage a year. I don't know how accurate that claim is, but if it is, it shows that a lot of people are definitely oblivious to ESD part damage, which explains of lot of the negative reviews found on sites like newegg


I'm not saying any of this applies to you, you might already know all of this, just putting these tips out there for anyone reading who might benefit from it.


Just an example of how dumb some people are, I watched a video of a guy on youtube who set his motherboard on a table with some kind of cloth cover, in a carpeted room... He then proceeded to open his new Intel i7 CPU and handle it without discharging or taking any other steps to prevent static damage to it. It made me cringe. He was probably wearing wool socks to boot, but alas I couldn't see his feet

[Major_A]

Didn't realize that Frys was that picky. Half of their "open box" items look like they're a year old.

Bingo with the air. In Houston it's not that big a problem, it's always humid as hell. When I would travel up north, especially in the winter, I would shock myself every time I got out of the freaking car. Ground yourself, and if you can keep yourself grounded to the case/metal then you don't need a wrist band thingie.

[smilingbounder]

Didn't realize that Frys was that picky. Half of their "open box" items look like they're a year old.

Bingo with the air. In Houston it's not that big a problem, it's always humid as hell. When I would travel up north, especially in the winter, I would shock myself every time I got out of the freaking car. Ground yourself, and if you can keep yourself grounded to the case/metal then you don't need a wrist band thingie.

Kinda hard to stay grounded at all times, because any time you take a step or move away from the case it's possible you're building static from something. It's just smart to have the anti-static bracelet on at all times (while it's attached to the case) while handling the sensitive parts.