New computer

This is the place to discuss the latest computer hardware issues and technology. Please keep the discussion ON TOPIC!
bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:31 am

Hi guys,

I just bought this new system from iBuypower:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IC ... ss_product

Its main Specs are:
Ati Radeon 5750
Processor i5-750
MSI H55M-P31 Motherboard
Adata DDR3-1600G 2x2GB
Generic 480W PSU (it says its a Maxpower PX-480, is this really generic?)

Before turning this on for the first time, I want to ask you first if I would have any problem with this PSU. After researching a bit, I saw that an almost identical system would use up no more than 190W under load. I also saw that some people had random hardware parts damaged because of a generic PSU.

The second question I would like to ask is if I also need to purchase some sort of voltage regulator. I'm not sure whether if this PSU is supposed to come with its own voltage protection. If so, what kind of protection I buy. Could it be something like one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/APC-Outlet-2525J- ... 666&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-Automa ... 799&sr=1-1

The first one costs half the second one, but I don't know if it suffices for voltage protection (if needed)
My main concern is to prevent hardware damage, and to avoid having the PSU causing system instability.

I'm kind of tight with my budget, so please base your recommendations on the things that are indispensable to be done (if anything has to be done).

User avatar
skier
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: New computer

Post by skier » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:04 pm

the PSU should be fine for light use like web browsing/youtube, but before you start overclocking/benchmarking/games or stress tests i'd pick up at least a 600W+ Corsair/OCZ/antec/thermaltake etc. known brand unit at least, my preference is to Corsair personally (and i would trust a corsair 400W over most any noname 500-650W+ units)
-Austin
Image
Screamin' BCLK: Image
775 System (Overclocking Platform): Q8400/Q8300/E8400/E7400/E7500 - GA-EP45-UD3R v1.1 - 4GB (2x2) OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066 CL5 2.1v Corsair TX-750w
Gamer: Asrock Z77 Extreme4, i7 3770K @4.6GHz, ThermalTake Armor A90 modded, 2x4GB GSKILL RipjawsX DDR3 2133 CL9, Corsair HX-750w, MSI GTX660 Twin Frozr
Server2012: Q9300 - 8GB DDR2 - Asus P5QL Pro - Corsair CX430 - Mirrored 2TB Seagate's with 2TB WD cav for fileshare backups, 1TB WD for OS backups

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:39 pm

skier wrote:the PSU should be fine for light use like web browsing/youtube, but before you start overclocking/benchmarking/games or stress tests i'd pick up at least a 600W+ Corsair/OCZ/antec/thermaltake etc. known brand unit at least, my preference is to Corsair personally (and i would trust a corsair 400W over most any noname 500-650W+ units)
I forgot to say that this system would be used a lot for gaming, with games such as Assassin's creed II, Fallout 3, Farc Cry 2, and the like.

But I will never overclock this system.

So, if you personally would pick at least 600+ of a brand name PSU, do you mean that this generic PSU would cause hardware damage and/or system instability while gaming?

User avatar
hnzw_rui
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:42 am

Re: New computer

Post by hnzw_rui » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:04 pm

bandieramonte wrote:So, if you personally would pick at least 600+ of a brand name PSU, do you mean that this generic PSU would cause hardware damage and/or system instability while gaming?
Maybe, maybe not. The issue with generic power supplies is the lack of quality control. It's likely you won't ever have a problem, however, there's also the chance that you'll get a fireworks display taking your other parts with it. Assuming you're not overclocking, I'd suggest a Corsair 400CX if you're on a tight budget.

Personally, on an uber-budget build (~$200-300 with just onboard graphics), I'm fine using generic power supplies. If I've spent $500 on mobo, CPU and GPU alone, I sure wouldn't take any chances with it.
File Server/Media Encoder/PVR PC
Antec P182 / Corsair 550VX / Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R / Core 2 Duo E7200 @ 2.53 / Wintec AMPX 2x2GB DDR2 800 / Sapphire 100233L Radeon HD 3450 / WD Caviar SE16 750GB x3 / WD Caviar GP 750GB / Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7190A x2 / XP Pro SP2

unRAID Server
Antec 300 / Corsair 520HX / Abit AB9 Pro / Celeron 430 @ 1.80 / Kingston ValueRAM 2x1GB DDR2 667 / ATI Rage XL / Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB x9 / unRAID 4.3.3

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:03 pm

Don't know what you can get in Venezuela but OCZ sells decent power supplies for good prices. They have a good warranty, good customer support (what limited dealings I've had with them) and it has to be better than the Homer Simpson PSU.

OCZ Affordable Power Supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

Homer Simpson reference:

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:13 pm

By your replies it seems that there is really a significant chance that I would have permanent hardware damage with this PSU while gaming.

I found in the local market (for a reasonable price) the Thermaltake Purepower W0329RU 450 Watts. Is this PSU decent enough, or still a risk?

If not, I also got this one (considerably costlier, is it necessary, or does the thermaltake suffice?): Corsair Cmpsu-400cx 400W.

Major_A, unfortunately, the OCZs being sold here come with at least 700W, which is an overkill for this system, and with a price tag overflowing my budget.

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:26 pm

I'm not a big fan of Thermaltake power supplies unless they are their high end products. What are the available options to you? It's not so much that we don't trust the power supply during gaming it's just we don't trust the power supply period. When crap power supplies go out they usually do it in spectacular fashion and take other things with it (i.e. the motherboard, CPU, video card, peripherals, etc...).

Try to find the UL number on the power supply and see who made it. For all we know it could be the same people that make Corsair's products.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ ... urer/370/2

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:49 pm

It does not have any UL number in it. I have attached a photo of this PSU, though it looks kind of far.

I don't know of this helps, but here I post the detailed specs regarding amperage distributions:

+3.3V: 24A
+5V: 15A
+12V1: 17A
+12V2: 18A
-12V: 0.3A
+5Vsb: 2.5

+3.3V and 5V MAX: 120W Max Power: 480W

I understand that the video card would be powered by a 12V rail, and after researching a bit a saw that this card uses a peak of around 75 W when gaming. This would translate to a but more than 6.25A (75W/12V). The other 12V rail would power the CPU, and the i5-750 is not so power hungry, I think. (I'm also not sure whether if the two 12V rails are summed to have a total of 35A). The ram kits would be powered by, what?

My knowledge regarding PSU electrical functionality is limited, so maybe I wrote something awfully incorrect. If so, please help me correct this. I would also like to understand in what specific ways is this PSU technically incapable of properly handling this system when gaming something like Fallout 3.
Attachments
IMG000002.jpg
IMG000002.jpg (12.86 KiB) Viewed 8152 times

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:22 pm

The picture is so small I can't make out anything on the label. At this point and without money keep it. The system is under warranty correct? I doubt they would put a POS in their computer and call it a day.

User avatar
hnzw_rui
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:42 am

Re: New computer

Post by hnzw_rui » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:22 am

Major_A wrote:I doubt they would put a POS in their computer and call it a day.
You clearly underestimate the lengths people would go to in order to cut costs. :P

@bandieramonte
Again, a lot of generic PSU's work well enough. If they didn't, there wouldn't be a market for it. I've seen a lot of PC's 10 years or older with generic power supplies that are still working. It's just that when they do fail, you sometimes get fireworks display and surges instead of the graceful shutdown with higher quality units. As long as you still have warranty, keep the current PSU. If your warranty is 3 years or longer, I wouldn't even bother changing the PSU. By the time something fails, you'll probably want to replace the system, anyway (or at least MB/CPU/GPU).
File Server/Media Encoder/PVR PC
Antec P182 / Corsair 550VX / Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R / Core 2 Duo E7200 @ 2.53 / Wintec AMPX 2x2GB DDR2 800 / Sapphire 100233L Radeon HD 3450 / WD Caviar SE16 750GB x3 / WD Caviar GP 750GB / Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7190A x2 / XP Pro SP2

unRAID Server
Antec 300 / Corsair 520HX / Abit AB9 Pro / Celeron 430 @ 1.80 / Kingston ValueRAM 2x1GB DDR2 667 / ATI Rage XL / Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB x9 / unRAID 4.3.3

User avatar
skier
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: New computer

Post by skier » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:12 am

bandieramonte wrote: +3.3V: 24A
+5V: 15A
+12V1: 17A
+12V2: 18A
-12V: 0.3A
+5Vsb: 2.5

I understand that the video card would be powered by a 12V rail, and after researching a bit a saw that this card uses a peak of around 75 W when gaming. This would translate to a but more than 6.25A (75W/12V). The other 12V rail would power the CPU, and the i5-750 is not so power hungry, I think. (I'm also not sure whether if the two 12V rails are summed to have a total of 35A). The ram kits would be powered by, what?
basically 90% of modern systems are powered by 12V lines: PCIe connections, Motherboard connections(including ATX power cable, 4 or 8pin), as well as the molex connectors (i believe SATA only uses 5v) so that is where you want a majority of your amperage.

as far as amperage goes that PSU doesnt actually look too aweful and if it is under full system warranty then you dont have too much to worry about except make sure you have a backup storage ;)
-Austin
Image
Screamin' BCLK: Image
775 System (Overclocking Platform): Q8400/Q8300/E8400/E7400/E7500 - GA-EP45-UD3R v1.1 - 4GB (2x2) OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066 CL5 2.1v Corsair TX-750w
Gamer: Asrock Z77 Extreme4, i7 3770K @4.6GHz, ThermalTake Armor A90 modded, 2x4GB GSKILL RipjawsX DDR3 2133 CL9, Corsair HX-750w, MSI GTX660 Twin Frozr
Server2012: Q9300 - 8GB DDR2 - Asus P5QL Pro - Corsair CX430 - Mirrored 2TB Seagate's with 2TB WD cav for fileshare backups, 1TB WD for OS backups

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:52 am

The PSU died.
Your concerns just came out true, and faster than I thought.

I turned the system on for the first time, and did some tests to see if it could handle some gaming, did tests like prime95 (only for 2 min) and furmark, and everything went fine. I used the system for 3 hours with total stability. But then, this morning, I turned it on again, and after 5 minutes of use the system suddenly began to restart itself and a moderate to strong smell of burned started to come out from the PSU. I immediately went to turn off the machine to prevent further damage to it (if any damage was already done to other hardware). No sound nor strange noise came out from the PSU, just that fried odor.

I can't believe that Ibuypower sells a system with a PSU that would not handle it anyways. They turned out to be a scam, at least with this system model of theirs.

Now, I'm between trying to claim the warranty (hard enough since I'm in Venezuela and the shipment costs would almost equal the cost of the system..) or just saving money for buying the good branded PSU I need. But to save money for this, I first need to find some way to know if the dying of the PSU affected any other components of the system.

The clues:
-System was restarting
-No boom noise when this happened
-Only a moderate to strong fried smell
-No smoke came out

I got no spare comps with which I can test for damaged hardware. I'm believing that if system was attempting to restart itself, then perhaps maybe there couldn't be damaged hardware, because in this case, the system would just have shut off dead, or not?

Edit:
If the PSU emitted this fried smell without any sound, and system was restarting, this necessarily indicated that PSU died? I want to be sure.
Last edited by bandieramonte on Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
skier
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: New computer

Post by skier » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:05 am

wow that sucks.

it sounds like you are safe, but of course you will find out when the new unit comes in

im gonna say 20% chance another part got taken out, but 80% says you're in the clear
-Austin
Image
Screamin' BCLK: Image
775 System (Overclocking Platform): Q8400/Q8300/E8400/E7400/E7500 - GA-EP45-UD3R v1.1 - 4GB (2x2) OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066 CL5 2.1v Corsair TX-750w
Gamer: Asrock Z77 Extreme4, i7 3770K @4.6GHz, ThermalTake Armor A90 modded, 2x4GB GSKILL RipjawsX DDR3 2133 CL9, Corsair HX-750w, MSI GTX660 Twin Frozr
Server2012: Q9300 - 8GB DDR2 - Asus P5QL Pro - Corsair CX430 - Mirrored 2TB Seagate's with 2TB WD cav for fileshare backups, 1TB WD for OS backups

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:50 am

What are you guys running in Venzuela, 110 or 220? What was the power supply switch set to when you started it up?

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:06 pm

In Venezuela we run at 110V, and when I started the system, the PSU switch was set to 115V. Also, I had this connected to a TrippLite voltage regulator, model VR1209R.

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:18 pm

Well... sounds like the PSU bit the dust hombre. I didn't expect it to happen as fast as it did but hopefully it's only the PSU that crapped out.

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:24 pm

And the only way to know whether if it was only the PSU that died, is to buy a new one (a branded one) and test if system works?

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:47 pm

You can test the one that's in there with a multimeter. But if the supply smells burned then it probably is just dead.

I know it's Sunday but have you tried to contact iBuypower?

bandieramonte
Legit Fanatic
Legit Fanatic
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Caracas, Venezuela

Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:19 pm

I have severe hearing loss and can't call them, but I left them an email and am awaiting for response.

Meanwhile, I've been looking at the local market, and collected the immediately affordable PSUs for my present budget. I listed them, and if you can see that any of them is good enough for the aforementioned system, please tell me:

- Achieve 800W model: AX800.N ; specs as follows:
Achieve.jpg
Achieve.jpg (63.28 KiB) Viewed 8040 times
- Agiler 1200W model: AGI-PS1200; specs as follows:
agiler.jpg
agiler.jpg (51.39 KiB) Viewed 8040 times
- Corsair CX400W
- 450W ThermalTake Purepower 450W model: W0329RU

If unfortunately none of them are sufficient, I now list the PSUs from a higher price tier, which I could purchase a bit later:

-Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 500w Model: RS-500-PCAP-A3
-Corsair 450w Cmpsu-450vx
-Thermaltake 550W model: W0134RU
-Cooler Master 600W Model: RS-600-PCAR-E3

Please consider that I will never overclock, nor will change or add new components to the system, except for maybe a X-Fi sound blaster card. What I need is the minimum PSU that would be safe, without buying a PSU that would have spare power put to waste (and hence spending more money than necessary).

User avatar
Major_A
Legit Extremist
Legit Extremist
Posts: 3793
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:54 pm

The two listed are worse than what was in there to begin with. Any time you have a very high number on the +5V rail the power supply is a piece of $#*%. Bad power supply manufacturers over inflate the +5V rail so they can get a better "wattage" rating.
Example:
1500W Silverstone Power Supply
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 500w Model: RS-500-PCAP-A3
I've used this in several builds (4 or 5) and never had a problem with it.

Post Reply