New computer

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hnzw_rui
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Re: New computer

Post by hnzw_rui » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:14 pm

skier wrote:the better+higher wattage the unit the less it Actually draws
Not true. AC power draw is dictated by the efficiency of the power supply. Heat also plays a factor. In general, the hotter the PSU runs, the lower the efficiency. Power supply efficiency curves often peak at around 40~60% and trail off on both ends. Buying an extremely high wattage power supply might even affect efficiency adversely when running low loads. The 80 Plus certification only tests for efficiency at 20%, 50% and 100% load. Below 20% and efficiency can be as low as 50~70%.

By the way, I'm incredibly curious what parts do you have installed on your PC that you're able to draw 500W from the wall just by loading the CPU? Watercooling perhaps?
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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:02 pm

I've never had a CPU go bad... So if it was would the motheroboard beep at you like when the RAM is missing or installed incorrectly? I'm not trying to worry you bandieramonte just trying to help figure out what is still broken.

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Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:07 pm

skier wrote:
bandieramonte wrote:The corsair psu I got is supposed to be always operating at 81% efficiency or more, and 450x.81= 364.5. This is above the recommended wattage, although is close. But I wonder why the difference with respect to tom's actual power results are huge.
actually it works the other way around, 450 is 80% of its actual peak (i have an OCZ 600W that draws 750W safely, well, not shutting itself off like it does @870W, lol) but basically how it works is, the better+higher wattage the unit the less it Actually draws (ie, my system with the 600W draws 500W with JUST max stress on my CPU, where i can stress the CPU and a 260 and 240 and still draw under 600W with my TX750)

basically, power supply is the most important part of any build, regardless of budget

my 3.1GHz Core2Quad + gts 250 pulls a max of 330W at the wall with the 600W unit, so yours with more (+faster) RAM and a higher power CPU should still be around the same even though the gts 250 draws much more. the 450 should be fine, and you checked all the other parts, and its not a short, or a faulty pwr switch, and its not overclocked, and you reset the CMOS, and you tried individual ram sticks in each slot separately. does your board have integrated gfx or on-chip?
Thanks for your explanation concerning psu efficiency. So this means that the corsair psu is more capable than I had thought it to be.

I've checked all the parts. It can´t be a short since the motherboard is outside the case and over a cardboard, it's not overclocked, the CMOS has been reset already, I also tried individual ram sticks in each slot separately, and as far as I know, the MSI H55M-P31 motherboard does not come with an integrated gfx, but it has installed an ati 5750. The power switch is not the issue either, since I tried a working power switch cable from other case, and this did not solve the issue.

So, if the corsair 450W should be fine, I got no idea on what is going on here..

Major_A, the motherboard does not beep whatsoever regardless of the dozens of hardware combinations I`ve tried here. It just spins fans on and off, without any sounds.

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Re: New computer

Post by skier » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:21 pm

hnzw_rui wrote:By the way, I'm incredibly curious what parts do you have installed on your PC that you're able to draw 500W from the wall just by loading the CPU? Watercooling perhaps?
Corsair H50 with the pump off a molex connector - dual fan, the corsair as exhaust and a high power, high flow intake
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all idle: 220W with the TX750, CPU load: 410W, + both GPU load(folding @home): 600W
the OCZ 600w idles around 350w, cpu load 550w, gpu load around 750w, shuts off over 820w
and Gomeler has had a HX1000 pulling 1400w and said this about my 600w pulling that much:
remember that the PSU is rated at 600w DC so you have to factor in the inefficiencies. 750w AC * 80% = 600w DC.
which is why it can pull way more at the wall than it is rated
and nate has had a HX620 pulling 800w

also, just going from 3.8GHz to 4.13GHz, my 1055T went from pulling 500w to 600w at the wall with the OCZ unit
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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:22 pm

I still think the motherboard is dead. I've had boards go before when you turned the computer on the fans would spin for 5 seconds then turn off. Another thing you could try is flipping the power switch on the power supply and hold down the power button for 10 seconds to drain residual electricity. Flip the switch back to the on position and try to turn the computer on.

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Re: New computer

Post by hnzw_rui » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:03 pm

skier wrote:Corsair H50 with the pump off a molex connector - dual fan, the corsair as exhaust and a high power, high flow intake
1055T 3.9GHz (or 4.2GHz depending what i'm doing) was at 1.65vcore 1.5v NB, now at 1.5vcore 1.4v NB
4GB 2x2GB DDR3 1600 CL9 1.5v @ 1488 CL8 1.5v
GTX 260 Black -overclocked shaders, GT 240 -overclocked Shaders (was running a GTS 250 secondary when i did the previously mentioned testing, which draws much more than the 240)
<snip>

all idle: 220W with the TX750, CPU load: 410W, + both GPU load(folding @home): 600W
the OCZ 600w idles around 350w, cpu load 550w, gpu load around 750w, shuts off over 820w
and Gomeler has had a HX1000 pulling 1400w and said this about my 600w pulling that much:
remember that the PSU is rated at 600w DC so you have to factor in the inefficiencies. 750w AC * 80% = 600w DC.
which is why it can pull way more at the wall than it is rated
and nate has had a HX620 pulling 800w

also, just going from 3.8GHz to 4.13GHz, my 1055T went from pulling 500w to 600w at the wall with the OCZ unit
I'm well aware of power efficiency calculations. I guess I just haven't personally owned a PC that consumes that much power. None of my PC's idle above 100W and I think the worst power consumption I've ever recorded is still less than 400W from the wall (stock Phenom II X6 1055T + HD 5670 running IBT+Furmark). The oc'ed Phenom and dual oc'ed GPU would definitely up the load, though. Just didn't think it would go up that high. I guess I got spoiled by Wolfdale and Clarkdale. Assuming you had the same system connected to the Corsair TX750 and the OCZ 600W, I have to say the OCZ is awfully inefficient. At system idle, I calculated 50% efficiency (220*0.8/350), at CPU load - 60%, and at GPU load - 64%. *shudder* Assuming 24/7 operation the difference in power consumption (based on idle power) is 1,138.8kWh/year. With the electricity rates in my area ($0.16/kWh), that's $182/year which actually makes replacing the power supply with a higher efficiency one a cost effective move.

By the way, it's a darned good thing Corsair underrates their PSU's. Even at a fairly low 80% efficiency, the HX1000 was delivering 1,120W.
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Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 pm

Major_A wrote:I still think the motherboard is dead. I've had boards go before when you turned the computer on the fans would spin for 5 seconds then turn off. Another thing you could try is flipping the power switch on the power supply and hold down the power button for 10 seconds to drain residual electricity. Flip the switch back to the on position and try to turn the computer on.
After so many tries, that was one I still did not do. And still this did not help me.

So the motherboard can now be considered mysteriously dead, after having being tested as prime95 stable immediately after the incident with the generic psu?

This is hard, it would be a shame to spend in a new motherboard, having the issue persist. After so many tries, it seems that the probability of an obvious and easily solvable cause of this issue is fading, and perhaps maybe a hardware comp was damaged, strangely, after all was prime95 stable. And if this is the case, I still can't find which is the damaged piece.

I'm getting drained of new ideas here.

It would be easier if Ibuypower could help me with their warranty, since I wrote them 2 weeks ago already. I'm still waiting if Nate can help me with them.

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Re: New computer

Post by skier » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:35 pm

bandieramonte wrote: It would be easier if Ibuypower could help me with their warranty, since I wrote them 2 weeks ago already. I'm still waiting if Nate can help me with them.
in general, actually calling support is better than email/chat
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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:59 pm

He said earlier in the post that he's very hard of hearing. I also imagine that the phone call would be pretty expensive calling from Venezuela to the US.

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Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Before sending them the email, I tried calling them and was completely lost in the auditive point of view.

Also, it's true that they would attend you more by phone, but I'm hoping that Nate could tell them something, so that Ibuypower could attend me by email or chat. But I don't know if that will happen. (I already pm'ed him)

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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:37 pm

At this point I'd contact Amazon and ask for a exchange. Hell the original power supply went and took something else with it. I also imagine that it's easier to deal with a giant e-tailer than a small/mid-size company like iBuypower.

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Re: New computer

Post by bandieramonte » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:47 pm

Amazon's 30-day period has already expired, and I understand that they can't do anything. However, before the expiration, I could replace the psu with the corsair, and I did all the tests that rendered all the hardware pieces in good condition. But now, the period has expired, and I ended up strangely with the system not staring.

How do you explain that the system passed the prime95 tests after the generic psu's incident?

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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:28 pm

Maybe transferring the components around damaged them somehow. Maybe when the power supply went it broke something and now it is completely dead. No real way to know.

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Re: New computer

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:41 pm

I haven't read this thread until today and just fired of an e-mail on your behalf to my contacts inside ibuypower.

Please PM me your order number as they will need it to verify purchase dates and so on. You are the original purchaser right?
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Re: New computer

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:15 pm

I have been in contact with ibuypower and I sent them the PM that you sent me and they had this to say:
I cross referenced the customer’s name with our registration database, but neither his name nor email is coming up in our databases. It might be just that we’re searching for the wrong info, or there might have been a problem with delivery. I am going to forward this to our customer service department and ask them to contact the customer directly.
They can't find you in the system with the name or e-mail you provided me, so please get back to me if you could with the name it was bought under and the order number. I'm trying to get you taken care of.
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Re: New computer

Post by XstollieX » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:07 pm

bandieramonte wrote: I just bought this new system from iBuypower:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IC ... ss_product
I don't think he bought it from iBUYPOWER, he linked to amazon.com I think he bought it there, I could be mistaken. It happens every once in a blue moon :lol:

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Re: New computer

Post by Apoptosis » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:19 pm

XstollieX wrote:
bandieramonte wrote: I just bought this new system from iBuypower:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IC ... ss_product
I don't think he bought it from iBUYPOWER, he linked to amazon.com I think he bought it there, I could be mistaken. It happens every once in a blue moon :lol:
Well sometimes Amazon sells stuff straight from the manufacturer. I wonder if he bought it used on Amazon then as they do sell used items on Amazon.
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Re: New computer

Post by jinxwolf69 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:35 pm

Just on a note of personal experience. I bought a PC from cyberpower back in February. i had a very similar problem to what you are experiencing. My PC crashed and blue screened on me. I had to play with it for a good bit to get it working again. Then it would crash again every time I left it alone for more than 30 mins. My PC would do the same thing yours is doing when i powered it up... I would hear the fans come on, no beeps or errors, my display would never come up and it just sat there with the fans running.. ( the HDD activity light would flicker a few times in the first 10 -15 seconds of powering it up then not come back on at all or hang on a lit up status by nothing would power up). Being as i have many many friends who work on comps for a living I ran the symptoms by them and i was told repeatedly that it sounded like a bad PSU. I was already running a 600Watt PSU.

Anyway, long story short, I had to send the comp back to cyberpower and the culprit ended up being the MB. they swapped it out and sent it back and it has been running fine since for the most part.

So not sure if you are still having issues or already fixed this problem, but I lean towards a Mother Board failure rather than a PSU. If the warranty through the manufacturer is still valid i would try to arrange to have a new MB sent or schedule to send it in for replacement.

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Re: New computer

Post by Major_A » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:00 am

So whatever became of this? Did you fix the computer or did you get in contact with iBuyPower?

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