Two 12V rails enough?

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Wavid
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Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:47 am

Hey guys, I'm looking at the GTX460 MSI offers, and i noticed that it requires 24 amps on the 12V rail. My PSU (500w OCZ ModXStream) has two 12V rails @ 18A. that should be enough to safely use the new GTX460, right?

On a different note, right now I'm using a 4850 from Sapphire, would the upgrade be worth it, or should I wait till there are more price drops?

Thanks guys! :)

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:30 pm

It's enough. I think they actually say a combined 24 amps on the 12V rail. So you have two at 18 so that would make it 36A. Off hand I would say you probably won't notice much of an improvement. But given the overclocking headroom that's where it would really shine. What resolution are you gaming at, cause anything 1680x1050 and below it might not be worth the upgrade.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by skier » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:53 pm

I would wait until GTX 560 surfaces, at the very least it would bring some more price drop, but you might also find that you can flash a 460 with a 560 BIOS which is what i'm hoping for, maybe
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:33 pm

I doubt you can just update the BIOS. Unlike ATi/AMD, nVidia likes to laser cut parts to keep people from doing this. The last nVidia card that could unlock anything was the 6800nu (if memory serves me correctly). I know the GTX 580/570 are new GPUs so I imagine that the 560 Ti (yeah they're bringing the Ti back) will just be a 580/570 with shaders/etc... laser cut/disabled.

But like skier said you might want to wait and see what unfolds. I think the 560 is supposed to be released within a few months.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:35 pm

@Major: Thanks for clearing that up! I have a 22' 1680x1050, so the difference (at stock speeds) would be negligible? If that's the case, then do the remaining 12V give me enough overclocking headroom? I haven't OC'd many cards/CPUs (I'm a total OC noob) so I'm not familiar with the increased power demands.

@skier: Thanks for the input! I am kinda lacking in the monies when upgrading is concerned, so i'll follow your advice.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by skier » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:48 pm

Major_A wrote:I doubt you can just update the BIOS. Unlike ATi/AMD, nVidia likes to laser cut parts to keep people from doing this. The last nVidia card that could unlock anything was the 6800nu (if memory serves me correctly). I know the GTX 580/570 are new GPUs so I imagine that the 560 Ti (yeah they're bringing the Ti back) will just be a 580/570 with shaders/etc... laser cut/disabled.
so what about all the 465's unlocking to 470's? Laser Cut parts are a fable, all about the BIOS or actual architecture modifications

also, you'd be fine overclocking depending on your CPU (if you plan to OC your CPU), GPU overclocks have minimal effect on power draw
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:36 pm

Wasn't aware about the 465 to 470 mod. But keep in mind that they share the same GPU (GF100). The GTX 460 is a completely different GPU (GF104).

Well Wavid I take that back, looking at your card again I initially misread it as the HD 5850, not the HD 4850. I think the HD 4850 is comparable to the HD 5770 in terms of performance. And I know that the GTX 460 will walk all over the HD 5770 before overclocking.
Here is the link to Legit Reviews' review of the GTX 460. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1360/1/

Overclocking the GPU is easier than overclocking your CPU. Download MSI's Afterburner software, crank up the voltage and start adding 10MHz to the core/memory and test using Furmark. If you see any anomalies then the overclock is too high. Once you find a stable clock speed I like to always back off about 10MHz just to be on the safe side. Here is an article/editorial from a different tech website about overclocking the GTX 460.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphi ... -gtx-460/1

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:02 pm

@skier: My CPU is a Pii 955 BE, so I hope that clears that up. On a side note, my CPU shouldn't be a bottleneck for a couple more years, right?

@Major: Thanks! I'll try to OC my 4850 and see how much mileage I can get out of that before I try to upgrade. Hopefully the double-slot cooler the Sapphire uses can handle some extra heat.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:58 pm

Sapphire has their own overclocking app, though MSI's Afterburner will work too. This is taken from the forums over at Techpowerup. These links are posted so you don't have to create an account with Sapphire. These utilities are for your video card only.
New version 3.0.2 Released with Support for HD 6900 series

File Name: SAPPHIRE_TriXX_Installer_beta_v3.02.exe
File Size: 3.29 MB
Signed by: Sapphire Technology Limited
Signing Date: ‎Friday, ‎December ‎24, ‎2010 5:26:17 AM

Download links:
http://rapidshare.com/files/439195577/S ... _v3.02.exe
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S71ZJ4SW
http://hotfile.com/dl/91907343/519af77/ ... 2.exe.html

Multiupload link:
http://www.multiupload.com/YLG6LRBYTQ
Hashs:
md5sum
fd565763862cffe59c3cb1921231d7d9 *SAPPHIRE_TriXX_Installer_beta_v3.02.exe

sha1sum
687648e6cc1fc7c278de9fcb70363803ff4c802d *SAPPHIRE_TriXX_Installer_beta_v3.02.exe

I have not yet tested the file myself and I do not have an HD 6900 series card to try it on. If I'm breaking any rules with this post please delete it!

Thanks :)
If you feel like trying your hand at overclocking your CPU then I'd start out with AMD's Overdrive.
http://game.amd.com/es-es/drivers_overdrive.aspx
Since you have a Black Edition CPU start by adjusting the multiplier (up/higher). I know that those series of Phenom's generally overclock to the 3.4-3.6GHz range without having to add voltage. A simple benchmark to see how your new clock speeds are affecting system performance is wPrime.
http://www.wprime.net/Download/wPrime204.zip
Last edited by Major_A on Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:02 pm

Thanks Major! Hopefully I'll be able to get the 4850 up to some nice speeds! :drinkers:

EDIT: I used CCC and got up to 700/1068 MHz on the GPU and memory. I know it's not the best, but for 25 minutes, not bad at all, right?

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:11 pm

What are the stock clocks? Did you run the benchmark of Furmark to see how much it helped?

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:56 pm

625/993. Not too impressive, I know.

I didn't download FurMark, but I saw an increase of about 15 fps in the games I tested (MW2, L4D2, Black Ops) at 1680x1050. MW2 and Left 4 Dead 2 i had 2x AA on and no shadows, Black Ops was turned wayyy down (low textures, no shadows, no AA, no anisotropic filtering, etc.) since for some reason ATI cards get a lot less FPS than their nVidia counterparts. :/

I didn't even have to raise the voltage from the stock 1.082V, and the max temps I saw never went about 70C.

I'll try FurMark later tomorrow.

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by lordvic » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:33 am

The 4850 seems to cap at 700 core and 1060,1070 or 1080 memory. I'm sure you can bring the core-clock higher, but CCC max is 700. You can try and flash a different 4850's BIOS and see if it changes your limit to 850 core or something. (check techpowerup.com http://techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.ph ... &memSize=0)
Increasing the memory past 1060/1070/1080 will most likely need more voltages which requires aBIOS flash chip/PCB mod...

I've never tried to do a BIOS flash for my Sapphire (single-slot) 4850, you as you can see in my sig, my 4850 maxed at 700/1060. :-k
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Major_A » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:50 am

There's always the Afterburner option to enable unofficial overclocking on ATi hardware (i.e. OC past the CCC limits).

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by Wavid » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:47 am

Yes, there is, but for now I'm happy where my 4850 is running. Until I want to OC some more, i'll wait. Thanks for all your guys' feedback! :)

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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by skier » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:54 am

Major_A wrote:Wasn't aware about the 465 to 470 mod. But keep in mind that they share the same GPU (GF100). The GTX 460 is a completely different GPU (GF104).
there were a couple vendors (not all 465's could/can, but a majority of the initially released 465's were simply 470s and featured the reference 470 PCB with the full 1280MB RAM, so all was needed was a BIOS flash to bring it to full 470 specs)
Also I want to say that some 9600GSO's with 768MB could unlock to the G92 8800GTS specs as well, again dependant on how many VRAM IC's were present on the PCB. so it all depends on how much Memory the 560 will have basically

my thinking is that the 460 is a 384-base Cuda core architecture (GF104), just trimmed down to 336 cores, and 560 is just supposed to have the full 384 in "GF114" form. hence the reasoning behind thinking it may unlock, both being the same 384-base die


on another note:

C:/Program Files (x86)/MSI Afterburner/MSIAfterburner.cfg (open with notepad)
there is a section of the config at the bottom labeled for ATI specific graphics cards:

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking	= 0
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod	= 0
change to

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking	= 1
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod	= 0
Save cfg, Restart afterburner
-Austin
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by lordvic » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:21 am

Major_A wrote:There's always the Afterburner option to enable unofficial overclocking on ATi hardware (i.e. OC past the CCC limits).
Hmm...I tried using Afterburner, but it didn't allow me to go past 700 for the core. It would just automatically jump back to 700 no matter what I do.
Tried ATi-tool also, it too was a no go.
:-k
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by skier » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:42 pm

lordvic wrote:
Major_A wrote:There's always the Afterburner option to enable unofficial overclocking on ATi hardware (i.e. OC past the CCC limits).
Hmm...I tried using Afterburner, but it didn't allow me to go past 700 for the core. It would just automatically jump back to 700 no matter what I do.
Tried ATi-tool also, it too was a no go.
:-k
read
skier wrote: C:/Program Files (x86)/MSI Afterburner/MSIAfterburner.cfg (open with notepad)
there is a section of the config at the bottom labeled for ATI specific graphics cards:

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking	= 0
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod	= 0
change to

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking	= 1
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod	= 0
Save cfg, Restart afterburner
-Austin
Image
Screamin' BCLK: Image
775 System (Overclocking Platform): Q8400/Q8300/E8400/E7400/E7500 - GA-EP45-UD3R v1.1 - 4GB (2x2) OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066 CL5 2.1v Corsair TX-750w
Gamer: Asrock Z77 Extreme4, i7 3770K @4.6GHz, ThermalTake Armor A90 modded, 2x4GB GSKILL RipjawsX DDR3 2133 CL9, Corsair HX-750w, MSI GTX660 Twin Frozr
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Re: Two 12V rails enough?

Post by lordvic » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:51 pm

skier wrote:
lordvic wrote:
Major_A wrote:There's always the Afterburner option to enable unofficial overclocking on ATi hardware (i.e. OC past the CCC limits).
Hmm...I tried using Afterburner, but it didn't allow me to go past 700 for the core. It would just automatically jump back to 700 no matter what I do.
Tried ATi-tool also, it too was a no go.
:-k
read
skier wrote: C:/Program Files (x86)/MSI Afterburner/MSIAfterburner.cfg (open with notepad)
there is a section of the config at the bottom labeled for ATI specific graphics cards:

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking = 0
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod = 0
change to

Code: Select all

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking = 1
AccessibilityCheckingPeriod = 0
Save cfg, Restart afterburner
Cool! I'll give that a try :) . Sorry skier, didn't look at your post carefully #-o
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