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dilema

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:18 pm
by Merlin
I have a problem...I can upgrade my CPU to a Phenom II X4 965 Black for $150 and upgrade the OS etc. later or I can upgrade the OS and add some Ram now and get the 965 later. Both Are $150 give or take. What say you all??

Re: dilema

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:57 pm
by DaddyRabbit
While not an AMD guy my move would probably be to upgrade RAM and OS first (assuming XP to Win7). Depending on usage IMHO quad cores still don't gain you as much in performance as you would expect (although I'm not up on AMD CPUs anymore). Also I would recommend installing 64-bit if it is Win7 for the upgrade and go with Win7 Pro if it is in the budget.

Re: dilema

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:52 pm
by skier
definitely the RAM, 2GB is painful all around, it was good in the DDR1 days though :lol:

i would get one or two 2x2 kits

Re: dilema

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:41 pm
by Merlin
I have XMS (2X1) PC2-6400 I was hoping to add to for cost reasons. I know I will only have 4Gig in the end but I can live with that until I can go up to DDR3.

Re: dilema

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:31 am
by Darkstar
personally i would do the X4 and the Ram now and Windows 7 later. For one, i dont think that MoBo can handle anything other than DDR2 so if you want better it will require a Motherboard upgrade and from what i see of your specs Win7 isnt going to run all that fast on that setup.

:drinkers:

Re: dilema

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:01 am
by Major_A
Get the faster CPU, it will offer the biggest system boost per dollar. It will help with any program that uses the CPU (aka all of them). You better get the DDR2 soon too. From what I read the other day DRAM prices are about to go back up. And with DDR3 being the norm, DDR2 is getting harder to find/more expensive.

If you know someone in school (college) they usually can get a good deal on student copies of Windows. When I was at UH I bought XP Pro for $7. A few years back when my cousin was at TAMU I had her pick me up Vista Ultimate for $8. Last year my friend who's at UH picked me up a copy of Win 7 Pro x64 for $11. The student EULA are much better than the off the shelf consumer edition.

If you do get the CPU you better check that your current BIOS supports the Phenom. Otherwise you'll have to put the X2 back in the machine to flash the BIOS.
This is your friend if you have a GIgabyte board.
http://www.gigabyte.com/MicroSite/121/tech_a_bios.htm

Re: dilema

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:03 pm
by Merlin
Darkstar...you are correct I cannot run DDR3 on this board, I plan on upgrading the MB and DRAM later this year when I have some more cash. I planned on spending around $150 now then another $150 in about three months and then finish up with around $250 for a MB and RAM. According to Gigabyte my current MB will run the 965 and my current MB will support a newer video card as well, like the XFX 5770 jupiter. My thinking was to upgrade as much as I can that this board will support that can also tranfer to a new board. RAM will not but 2 GIG will run win7 like cold molasses so I dont see any choice on that one since the RAM and MB have to be upgraded together and I don't have the $$ right now.

Re: dilema

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:32 pm
by skier
Merlin wrote:2 GIG will run win7 like cold molasses so I dont see any choice on that one
i'm not saying 2GB is fantastic, but it will run 7 just fine (I would'nt even think about running Vista on 2GB though)

I threw a computer together for my brother that has a 2.7GHz Core2 duo, one 2GB stick of XMS2 (800MHz) that is on win7 pro x64, works great

it all boils down to if you plan on gaming heavily, as you can game on 2gb allright, but you just can't Alt-Tab and run more than one game instance at a time.


if you plan to go to a DDR3 board in the future anyway I wouldn't get any more DDR2, spend that wasted money on a better graphics card (or just get a good kit of DDR2 and stick with the current board, and get CPU, GPU)

Re: dilema

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:57 pm
by Major_A
To reiterate what skier just said I'm running Win 7 x64 just fine with 2GB of RAM.
System Specs:
Computer:
Computer Type ACPI x64-based PC
Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate
OS Service Pack -
Internet Explorer 8.0.7600.16385 (IE 8.0 - Windows 7)
DirectX DirectX 11.0
Computer Name XXXXX
User Name XXXXX
Logon Domain XXXXX
Date / Time 2011-02-05 / 22:51

Motherboard:
CPU Type TripleCore AMD Phenom X3 8450, 2100 MHz (10.5 x 200)
Motherboard Name Foxconn M61PMV Series (2 PCI, 1 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x16, 2 DDR2 DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN)
Motherboard Chipset nVIDIA nForce 6100-430, AMD K10
System Memory 2048 MB (DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)
DIMM1: Micron 8HTF12864AY-800E1 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (6-6-6-18 @ 400 MHz) (5-5-5-15 @ 333 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz)
DIMM2: Micron 8HTF12864AY-800E1 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (6-6-6-18 @ 400 MHz) (5-5-5-15 @ 333 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz)
BIOS Type Award (07/01/10)

Display:
Video Adapter ATI Radeon HD 5450 (512 MB)
3D Accelerator ATI Radeon HD 5450 (Cedar)
Monitor Generic PnP Monitor [NoDB] (H9NY639318)

Multimedia:
Audio Adapter ATI Radeon HDMI @ ATI Cedar/Park - High Definition Audio Controller
Audio Adapter nVIDIA nForce 6100-400/405/420/430 (MCP61) - High Definition Audio Controller

Storage:
IDE Controller Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
Storage Controller NVIDIA nForce RAID Controller
Storage Controller NVIDIA nForce RAID Device
Storage Controller NVIDIA nForce RAID Device
Storage Controller NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller
Storage Controller NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller
Disk Drive Generic USB CF Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB MS Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB SD Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB SM Reader USB Device
Disk Drive NVIDIA STRIPE 298.10G (298 GB)
Disk Drive WDC WD16 00JS-22MHB0 SCSI Disk Device (149 GB)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Partitions:
C: (NTFS) 29898 MB (11528 MB free)
D: (NTFS) 268.8 GB (265.0 GB free)
E: (NTFS) 149.0 GB (120.5 GB free)
Total Size 447.0 GB (396.7 GB free)

Input:
Keyboard Standard PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse Logitech HID-compliant UltraX Optical Mouse

Network:
Network Adapter Belkin F5D8053 N Wireless USB Adapter

Peripherals:
Printer Lexmark 2500 Series
Printer Adobe PDF
Printer Fax
Printer Microsoft XPS Document Writer
Infrared Controller Built-in Infrared Device
Infrared Controller IrDA Protocol
USB1 Controller nVIDIA nForce 6100-400/405/420/430 (MCP61) - OHCI USB 1.1 Controller
USB2 Controller nVIDIA nForce 6100-400/405/420/430 (MCP61) - EHCI USB 2.0 Controller
USB Device Belkin F5D8053 N Wireless USB Adapter
USB Device USB Input Device
USB Device USB Mass Storage Device
Battery Microsoft Composite Battery
Here's a small pic of the available RAM, at the time of the screenshot I'm running FF w/ 6 tabs open and running WinRAR.
RAM_Usage.PNG
RAM_Usage.PNG (26.12 KiB) Viewed 4565 times

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:22 am
by Velo:Sity
I ran both Vista and 7 32-bit versions with 2GB- no problem. What problems with Vista did you exactly encounter?

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:58 am
by Merlin
Thanks fort he input everyone. I think I will get the Phenom II 965 black. At $150 it seems to be a really good CPU. on 3dmark 06 my FPS on the CPU test was 0.75 and 1.15 so I think that is a fair indicator that my CPU is my current bottleneck.

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:06 am
by Merlin
is there a program like 3Dmark that will test your system and tell you what component needs upgrading?

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:41 am
by Apoptosis
not really...

Like everyone said you need a memory update badly. 4GB total would be nice for that platform.

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:42 am
by Apoptosis
Would cost you $42 or so to get 4GB... Your mobo only has two slots, so you can sell off the other 2GB kit for something to help cover the RAM updgrade costs.

CORSAIR 4GB DDR2 (2x2GB) TWIN2X4096-6400C5C G $40AR @ Fry's B&M or $42AR shipped @ Frys.com

http://www.frys.com/product/6011558
* 2 x 2GB modules for use AMD and Intel DDR2 systems
* Mainstream 800MHz solutions
* Latency of 5-5-5-18 for maximum reliability and performance
* XMS Heat Spreader

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:57 pm
by Merlin
Major and Skier both seemed to say I would be OK with 2 GIG. This MB actually has 4 slots for ram but with XP I cannot go over the 4 gig. Which brings me back to my original question do I upgrade Ram and OS now and wait for CPU etc. Or do I go for the CPU now and do Ram and OS later finishing up with MB and final Ram to DDR3 8 gig or so.
It had sounded like Major and Skier were recommending the CPU but it sounds like Apop is saying Ram.....confused?
These are the upgrades I know I need to have in the end
1. CPU
2. RAM ( twice depending on order of upgrades)
3. MB to AM3 and DDR3
4.OS to 64 bit to allow for over 4 GIG of RAM ( would need to go with #2 to perform well)
5. Vid card
So what do I go for first considering, 2 and 3 will have to go together since I now have AM2+ socket, and I don't have more than $175 right now

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:18 pm
by Major_A
As I stated before, the most noticeable improvement you can make now is the CPU. It will speed up all your apps and games.

You add more RAM you probably won't notice it. You update to Win 7 x64 it won't make anything faster. All that will be is a new operating system. Oh and XP can use over 4GB of RAM, assuming it's the 64-bit edition.

Re: dilema

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:38 pm
by Merlin
Thanks Major. I hear you and that was going to be my choice as well but I think Apop disagrees...Apop care to expound on your advise?

Re: dilema

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:03 am
by Darkstar
CPU + 4GB ram is what i said, have to agree with Apop (and others) on that, you should have 2 open slots and memory is cheap to upgrade.

:drinkers:

Re: dilema

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:52 pm
by Major_A
Here's another example. I downloaded a triple screen wallpaper (from here, titled Roman Bath) and got it pretty close to 200MB in Photoshop. I took a screenshot of my available RAM before I ran the 185MB TIF through Hardware Heaven's Photoshop Benchmark minus the stops to record the filter times. The large photo is clickable to show the maximum RAM usage.

Picture Info Via Adobe Bridge:
Image

Idle RAM Info:
Image

Maximum RAM Info (Click to Enlarge):
Image

This represents a real world worst case scenerio. I doubt you'd very often be editing 185MB TIF files. Most FPS games I've run across don't use that much RAM. The games that tend to use a lot of RAM are RTS games (i.e. Company of Heroes, Warhammer 40K, Supreme Commander, etc...). But I still think that you'd be better off with the faster CPU first.

Re: dilema

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:24 pm
by DaddyRabbit
I will change my recommendation:

1) Take the $150 - $175 you have now, put it into savings
2) Take the next $150 (in 2-3 months) put it into savings (now at $300-$350)
3) Take the saved funds and do an entire rebuild in 6 months when you are ready (the anticipation will suck but the reward will be better IMHO ;) )

Sometimes patience has its own rewards :)