Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:37 pm

That's kind of what I was thinking honestly. While I get that SSD's make things load faster, once loaded it's all about the machines horsepower in GPU and CPU performance. As such, I can tolerate longer load times for superior performance whilst the application is running by using the cash I'd spend on a large cap SSD to buy a faster GPU or CPU.

What would you think of something like this? A Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III paired with a set of Western Digital WD6401AALS's in RAID0? As much as I hate linking to other forums, Hardware Canucks had a post (old) comparing the WD6401AALS's to the Raptor WD3000GLFS. It compares pretty favorably. Figuring the RAID0 probably cuts Read performance by 30-40%. That gives me 1.16 TB formatted drive space with a 64GB SSD SATA III cache.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by vbironchef » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:43 pm

I was thinking more in line with the Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSD. Sustained Sequential Write Up to 210 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s); 200 MB/s (SATA 3Gb/s). Not to mention it comes with the Intel SSD Toolbox with Intel SSD Optimizer.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Major_A » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:34 pm

Sounds like a winner to me. I have a question though. I know Windows sees a RAID array as 1 drive, but does SRT work with mechanical drives in RAID? I have yet to see that benchmarked/reviewed.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by DaddyRabbit » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:37 pm

Major_A wrote:I don't know. I have two 30GB Corsair SSDs in RAID 0 as my primary boot drive. I try to install all of my apps on my D drive (2x1TB RAID 0) but there's still a ton of application data that ends up on C. That being said I'm running out of room fast on the little drives. The worry there is the less space the slower the drives get since I can't run TRIM in RAID. If you've never ran an SSD than ignorance might be bliss here. If you go with a small SSD and SRT then you'd be amazed by how fast it is. If you were going from a fast SSD to the SRT then you might be disappointed.
I have to agree here. I purchased a 240gb OCZ Agility 2 and use it as boot, games, and most applications drive. It definitely boosted boot times, apps loading and games loading and to an extent loading levels (depends on the game).

That said, even with 240gb it is a disk space management hassle sometimes with remapping user folders and program installs.

Honestly I would probably go with a smaller SSD and use SRT for now. Note that you won't show an immediate improvement until the SSD cache optimizes. But from what I've read and seen after that settles performance improves dramatically. Write performance will probably stay level can even take a hit if paired with a really fast HDD as SSD writes can be slower.

Intel makes a relatively cheap SLC SSD designed specifically for SRT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167062

But there are cheaper ones out there. I probably wouldn't use a Sandforce drive for SRT though.
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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:44 pm

vbironchef wrote:I was thinking more in line with the Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSD. Sustained Sequential Write Up to 210 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s); 200 MB/s (SATA 3Gb/s). Not to mention it comes with the Intel SSD Toolbox with Intel SSD Optimizer.

Back to the whole $280 price tag issue. While I have no doubt that the Intel 510 is a WICKED fast drive I don't know that I'm missing "that" speed right now and can't justify the cost.

DaddyRabbit wrote:
Major_A wrote:I don't know. I have two 30GB Corsair SSDs in RAID 0 as my primary boot drive. I try to install all of my apps on my D drive (2x1TB RAID 0) but there's still a ton of application data that ends up on C. That being said I'm running out of room fast on the little drives. The worry there is the less space the slower the drives get since I can't run TRIM in RAID. If you've never ran an SSD than ignorance might be bliss here. If you go with a small SSD and SRT then you'd be amazed by how fast it is. If you were going from a fast SSD to the SRT then you might be disappointed.
Honestly I would probably go with a smaller SSD and use SRT for now. Note that you won't show an immediate improvement until the SSD cache optimizes. But from what I've read and seen after that settles performance improves dramatically. Write performance will probably stay level can even take a hit if paired with a really fast HDD as SSD writes can be slower.

Intel makes a relatively cheap SLC SSD designed specifically for SRT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167062


Intel Larson Creek 20GB SSD SSDSA2VP020G201 $115

Sustained Sequential Read - Up to 200 MB/s
Sustained Sequential Write - Up to 105 MB/s


Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB $114

Sustained Sequential Read - Up to 500 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s)
Sustained Sequential Write - Up to 95 MB/s (SATA 6Gb/s)

Looks like the Crucial I linked earlier is the faster drive, 3x the capacity, and is the same price. Am I just paying for the Intel name if I were to go with the Larson Creek drive? I can't seem to find out whose controller the Crucial drive is using either. As long as I keep the SSD off the Marvel controller on the mobo I think I'd be OK with it.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by DaddyRabbit » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:22 pm

The main difference between the two is that the Intel is an SLC drive with a much longer lifespan. And the intel is a Sata II drive where the Crucial is Sata III.

Also the write speed on the Intel is faster.

Also you HAVE to use the Intel controller the Marvell won't work with this. From a customer review:

Here's how you you do it (assuming a new build):
1. Do NOT connect the SSD to the MB until later in the process
2. Enter BIOS and under SATA options, select RAID.
3. Load the OS
4. Load the MB drivers, which should contain the Intel RST driver. If not, it can be found at the Intel download center
5. Connect the SSD
6. Open the Intel RST software, select "accelerate"
7. Click "enable acceleration"
8. Select the SSD to be used as a cache
9. Select the HDD (RAID volume) to be accelerated
10. Select your acceleration mode - enhanced or maximized
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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Apoptosis » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:33 pm

Skippman wrote:
Major_A wrote:Go to a store where they have computers on display. Play with one that has a SSD in it. You'll be more surprised than you'd think.
I'll try and swing by MicroCenter this weekend. Do you think going full SSD for my boot drive is the best choice opposed to getting a cheaper, smaller SSD for SRT?
For the 15th time... skip Intel SRT!

I'd go with the Crucial M4 SSD for a boot drive over an Intel 311 for SRT any day.

Take it from a guy that is benchmarking a system this second using an Intel 311 20GB drive for Intel SRT:

Image

There is also a reason Intel didn't include SRT as a feature on Intel X79 chipsets... For that price level you are better off with an SSD. Intel SRT is for people that buy a system and want to make it faster months or years down the road. They can plug in the SSD for caching and get an instant boost. It's not for enthusiasts like us.
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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Major_A » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:56 pm

Here's the current problem with SSD drives. They just don't have enough space. Again, I have all the SSD tweaks done to my SSD drive yet there's still a ton of space used up in my AppData folder on my C:. Some people would rather sacrifice speed for space. Holy s**t, I just went to the Egg to look at mechanical drive prices. Wow! A few months ago I picked up a Seagate 1.5TB drive for $60, now it's $180. Maybe this will teach them to not put all of their eggs in one basket.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:29 am

Parts Ordered Today! :supz:

From NewEgg

1 x ($84.99) MEM 4Gx4|G.SKIL F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXL $84.99
1 x ($359.99) VGA EVGA|012-P3-1572-AR GTX570 R $359.99
1 x ($269.99) MB EVGA|160-SB-E689-KR Z68 FTW R $269.99

Total w/ Shipping = $726.72

From Performance PCs

10' x PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing -1/2in. ID X 3/4in. OD (PFLEXP-34-R) = $22.50
1 x Danger Den UV Red Delrin 1/2" (3/4" OD) Tubing Clamps - 10 Pack (DD-CLAMP-3/4-UVR) = $9.95
3 x Yate Loon CLEAR 120mm High Speed Silent Case Fan with Red LED - D12SH-124R - Sleeved (D12SH-124R) = $20.85
2 x *** NEW *** Yate Loon 140x140x25mm Clear High Speed Fan with Quad Red LED Sleeved (D14SH-124R) = $23.98

Total w/ Shipping = $91.96

Grand Total for Parts = $818.68


Still need a Proc but MicroCenters going to have the i5 2500K on sale on Friday for $150. Might also pick up a SSD while I'm there before Nate tracks me down and beats me with a hard drive! :lol:

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by vbironchef » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:50 am

Congrats! After you build it could you post some pics?

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Major_A » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:58 am

Sounds like you got the stuff you wanted. Did you find the Classified or is that a different card?

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:29 am

The Classified is a different card and is out of production according to eVGA on their own forums.

I fully intend to post a build log. Still wondering if I should add a reservoir to the mix or if a T-Line should be sufficent.

I do like the looks of the XSPC Dual Bay res.

Image

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Major_A » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:57 am

Well with the reservoir you'll have a supply of cooler fluid. It should probably help bring the temps down a few degrees C. Is the few degrees worth the added cost and added potential for leakage though?

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:03 am

True. I'm more thinking in terms of running the loop all together.

My original design was going to put the triple rad up top with the barbs to the back of the case. The one furthest towards the motherboard would go directly to the CPU block, then out from the block to the pump, from the pump to a T-line, then back to the radiator.

If I got the res, I'd flip the rad around and put the barbs on the drive bay side. I'd run the one closest to the motherboard tray to the radiator, run the other barb out from the radiator to the CPU block, out from the CPU block back to the res since the pump would be intergrated into the res.

Am I explaining this well?

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Apoptosis » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:37 pm

You made the right call on the SSD...

Here is the Intel 311 20GB Larson creek drive performing Cache operations for a WD Caviar Black 2TB drive:
drives.jpg
drives.jpg (35.01 KiB) Viewed 9014 times
intel-rst-2.jpg
intel-rst-2.jpg (51.32 KiB) Viewed 9014 times
cdm1.png
cdm1.png (48.97 KiB) Viewed 9014 times
It's running enhanced mode, but other than the 4K and 512K reads it's not that impressive.
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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by bubba » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:11 pm

Major_A wrote:Well with the reservoir you'll have a supply of cooler fluid. It should probably help bring the temps down a few degrees C. Is the few degrees worth the added cost and added potential for leakage though?
The water would equalize eventually, well unless you get a res that holds a gallon+, besides the rate the water is moving through the loop it don't matter, talking north of 600 liter an hour (2-3gpm) with a D5 in a basic loop.

I use a res to keep the pump fed with a source that is not turbulent, less turbulance in the water, less bubbles, better performance. Size of res boils down to looks.

If everything is sealed correct, leaks are rare apart from component failure. Leaks are the inherent risk of water cooling.
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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by tzaar0723 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:59 am

A T line is more or less a small reservoir.

It's completely a matter of personal taste -- some people prefer a T-Line for the space it saves, other people prefer a res for the looks. As far as temps/performance, they'll both perform identically.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:54 am

I'm going to have to purge my water cooling system, particularly the radiator (which supposidly has a built in res). Any suggestions? I'd heard using regular radiator cleaner from the auto parts store would be fine.

My loop has been running for 2 years without a problem. Temps are the same as the day I assemebled it. It doesn't run 24x7, only when I'm using it (10 hours or more a week) and I used a really good coolent, Fesser-1.

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Skippman » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:05 pm

Snagged my i5 2500K for $150 and a OCZ SSD for $154 before MIRB today!

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Re: Warmachine 3.0 (i5 2500K build)

Post by Apoptosis » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:27 pm

score!
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