Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

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Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:47 pm

-I have this question posted on multiple forums so bare with me here as my replies will be much slower.
-AS FOR THE PEOPLE recommending me WC I honestly feel intimidated by it. I chose an air cooling case but I still am not sure to choose a water cooling enabled one since I am not positive if I go WC in the future.
-I will order from mostly canadian sites but will order from other places if necessary. The preferred retailer list I posted isn't that vital.

UNAVAILABLE ON NEWEGG CANADA:

Monitor: Dell UltraSharp U2312HM
CPU HSF: Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E
Headphones: Sennheiser PC 350 or 360
Tablet: Wacom Bamboo Splash

This is my first build from scratch my gaming orientation leans on rpgs, mmos, action-adventure and rts for the most part and less so for fps and racing games.

Approximate Purchase Date:
By the end of July
Budget Range:
Under $3k subtotal including everything base system, monitor, peripherals etc…
System Usage from Most to Least Important:
Extensive gaming and production/rendering in autodesk and other 3D/CG art software
Parts Not Required:
Not planning on getting a custom water cooling system just yet
Preferred Website(s) for Parts:
Newegg Canada
TigerDirect Canada
Canada Computers
NCIX
Country:
Canada
Parts Preferences:
Nvidia, visuals for the most part
Storage Space:
2TB minimum
Overclocking:
Likely
SLI or Crossfire:
Possibly SLI
Monitor Resolution:
1920x1080 or 2560x1440. I would like to have games on maxed settings, AA would be nice and what ever gaming technology optimization available
Additional Comments:
my newegg wishlist

anything sold out on the list i will look for else where, as long as they have good enough return policy

Really looking for some of the top and latest support with longevity, durability and silence

the rig would be placed in the basement which is usually around 20C, during the humid summer it should be closer to 30C room temp but we almost always AC then. the only thing about the basement i am worried about is if airflow wouldn't be good enough for the rig

would a heatsink fan suffice for now? if i ever choose to SLI would water cooling be needed then?
Last edited by TBGAPowa on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:18 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoted from a member named lehpron from the EVGA forums "But, in order to maintain your CPU stabilty; your RAM, HDD, motherboard, PSU, etc all have to be in sync and stable too. So while the CPU could theoretically take the punishment, total system stability depends on the other junk in the system."
How Long Before Failure ?

i hope the hhds would suffice, they do get great ratings i believe the others are good enough.

is 16 gb RAM 1600 enough or should I go higher 1866/2133/2400?



what do you think think about this monitor?

Yamakasi Catleap 27" LED 2560x1440 WQHD S-IPS
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:45 pm

if you can get the higher rating memory get that. I have no idea what your quote is even talking about. as each one can cause serious issues on a computer but each one will bring in their own unique problems to a computer.

the key thing to remember in any computer build first thing make sure you get a top quality brand name PSU, and make sure it is over rated for what you are going to be using it in. ie. "extreme psu calc" says you need a 750 watt psu, get a 900 watt you will have less head aches in the long run. spend the extra cash, you wont regret it.

Motherboards, honestly their are only a few out there that are considered OK, while the top brand name ones are great. They all pretty much identical to one another, just each motherboard manu adds a unique but different feature to their boards over the other. Just make sure you get a board that will suit your needs.

Memory, each manufacturer approaches their memory differently. Try and get the higher end chips as possible. These typically will overclock the best, and will have the best frequency to timing ratio. Brand names, at a certain point, they all have roughly the same performance. Just one manufacturer may not overclock as well as another. (hence try and get a highest operating frequency as possible, Ie 1600 vs 1866 (get the 1866mhz)

CPU is no brainer.

HDD's again is a no brainer, I tend to stick with Western Digital and or Seagate when it comes to HDDs. I orefer the smaller 2.5" Laptop drives over the 3.5" varients, but that is just my personal taste as one doesn't operate any faster then the other that is noticeable anyways.

SSDs are a different matter altogether. Read a lot of reviews, and ask around a lot.

Now a suggestion for me to you, is try and give us some narrowed choices on what you have in mind as far as parts for your computer. then we can give you our suggestions based on what you have chosen. I hopes this helps you out in any way possible
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:03 pm

direct quote from member lehpron from the EVGA forums, sorry its huge but this sums up why i chose the type of mobo, GPU and CPU. but of course still subject to change

"Most modern games are threaded for between 2-4 cores, and it has been a slow progress adoption since quads have been around for six years, duals for eight years. meaning, a 6-core won't make a difference today. New games take 2-3 years to make from the ground up, so in that time, it will make a quad that much more important. Only get the 6-core for your professional work, not for gaming.

3770K is a 22nm quad and half the die area (thus half the actual power and thermals if set at the same frequency) as 32nm i7-3900's 6-cores; mathematically, they should overclock better, but Intel differed from tradition of soddering the CPU die to the IHS (integrated heat spreader) by using a thermal grease with Ivy Bridge which tends to artificially raise temperaturess. This prevents anyone from really being able to push it except for those using cryogenics; so in the end, all Sandy and Ivy processors reach a max of approx 5GHz regardless of number of cores.

So it all comes down to the board really; X79 can support up to 4-way SLI (in quad x8, or a pair of full x16) configs while Z77 is limited to just dual x8's. If you're serious about longitivity in terms of having the room for future graphics cards and not change the board (which definitely need more bandwidth than current), then X79 is the only option. For CPU, either get quad 3820 or 6-core 3930K depending on how often your professional uses need 12-threads or not.

BTW, as for the GTX670's, get the 4GB card. We'll soon see a new standard for mainstream monitors that used to be the reign of medicial professionals, their total single display res equals to a modern multi-display setup. So if you intend on at least one in the next two years and not upgrading graphics for it, then you should plan ahead with a 4GB model and get 3-way SLI by then to compensate.

TBGAPowa

Really looking for longevity and durability I chose a gtx 670 in hopes of being able to run graphic intensive art programs and gaming on high settings for at least two years before upgrade/new build.
This part will require an edit for realism.

In two years, a pair of GTX670 will have the performance equivalency of a future mainstream card (i.e. "GTS850" )and unable to run those games appearing then at high details without having the frame rates dip whatever is high-end at time. So either plan to get into 3-way or 4-way SLI (meaning you need to get a 4-way capable board in the first place, i.e. X79), think about upgrading your graphics card much earlier than two years, or settle for less visuals as times passes especially if you plan a higher resolution monitor someday. Most games are GPU-intensive, so if your resolution doubles the pixels, you cut your frame rates in half.

The only way you can truly have longivity is if your expectation is much lower than what is available for purchase. If you want max detail at smooth rates, then that is only possible today, it isn't possible next year with this year's configuration running next year's games. Just so you know, many folks on enthusiast websites like these upgrade often as a hobby, they choose to keep up with technology in order to maintain their preference level in every new game; I personally see it as a hassle. So you have to decide your upgrade tendencies beforehand and plan ahead, beyond this upcoming build. "

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?high ... =1#1650704
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by egloeckle » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:17 pm

I have seen the Catleap's on other boards before. I worry about reliability, an 8 bit IPS display for ~$350, something has to be up with it.

If you are looking on input on the specs of it, IPS displays are wonderful. I run 2 30" IPS display's and really debate getting a third from time to time. Once you get something with >1080p resolution it is really difficult to ever go back. The only issue to be aware of is the refresh rate on an IPS display is a bit slow and you can get ghosting/streaking from time to time though it is usually not that noticeable. Color accuracy is far better than any TN type panel you can get, due to it being an 8bit display. Viewing angle is extreme as well, though for a computer monitor that tends to not matter much.

As for the rest of your post, $3k is a solid budget to work with. I am sure if you got more of a parts list together and posted it here people would give you input on the build. Not sure if anyone is going to want to spend the time piecing together an entire build within budget for you though.

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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:32 am

The X79 platform is for when you want to add other cards into the system, like revo drives, networking cards that use more then 1x pci-e lanes, or more then 2 video cards. the z78 motherboards are really intended to be a basic stream line gaming rig. You can hook up 2 video cards and still have 2 PCI-E lanes available. It really determines on what you are looking for. ME I would go with the X79 platform bc you do have a few more options as to what you want to install to it. If you don't want a Hex core, then you can still get a quad core on that same platform, and still be able to overclock it as well. Which you will have to use the BCLK instead of the "Turbo Multiplier" on the 600 USD Hex core CPU, and a unlocked "Base Multiplier" that is on the extreme CPU. Personally BCLK overclocking is always the best route anyways.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by KnightRid » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:55 am

OK, everyone seems to be freaking out about the SLI graphics when FPS is the major contributor to even needing SLI, which he isn't focussed on.

I will admit, if you want to play super hi resolution, then you may want to consider SLI but for 1080p you dont need it.

Hi-Res displays are nice, they look cool and are needed for intricate design work. Gaming, they are a luxury. I would rather buy a nice 50-60" 1080p set to play on rather than spending insane amounts of money for a higher res smaller display. My opinion, others may vary.

Buy a core i7 gen 3 chip that is unlocked (do not buy the highest one if you are overclocking, get a step or 2 below to save money and then overclock), if you want to overclock. Get no less than 8gb of memory, 1000w power supply (if you want to SLI in the future), top of the line Nvidia card, 7200rpm data drive like the WD Black series, a nice 120gb or larger SSD for booting and for any game that actually takes advantage of the SSD for better framerate. Get water cooling. Read the reviews here on Legit Reviews about the self contained ones. I have my core i7-920 on one and overclocked to 4ghz with no problems. You do not need a custom water cooling setup right out of the gate.

$3000 is WAY too much to spend for what you want to do with it. Again, my opinion.

I have no problem with people asking me to build computers for insane amounts of money that they will never use but I would buy a system at about half that price (maybe less), play everything at 1080p and then have the money to upgrade every year to better graphics, etc.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:49 am

from the pureoverclock forum member Doctor_Death:

Skip the MS keyboard, and go eith the Corsair K90, also the Phanteks CPU coolers do out perform the D14. I'll tell you what, I have a brand new system that I built for Enermax with duel EVGA Classified GTX590s. I have the Gigabyte X79 UD7 installed, but if you perfer ASUS, I can swap it out for a new X79 Rampage 4 Formula. There's also a brand new Intel 3820, and a Lepa G1600 PSU. Blu-ray burner and a DVD burner, 16GBs of Geil 1600MHz, 240GB SSD and a WD 1TB drive. You can own this build for $1500 shipped

Here's a couple of photos, click to enlarge:

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/attachm ... ld-001.jpg
http://forums.pureoverclock.com/attachm ... ld-003.jpg


I can add a 3960X but not for $1500 lol if I switch out the UD7 and replace it with the Rampage 4 Formula, and add the 3960X I have to get at least $2200 which is still a hell of a deal. Just the Vision Tek Racer 240GB and the WD 1TB would set you back a little over $400, never mind the EVGA Classified GTX590s, beside the new GTX690s the 590's are still one of the fastest cards around.

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/general ... udget.html

what do you think?
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:03 pm

Your right Knight, but the again different setups do different things and have different capabilities. While a gen 3 Core i7's are fast and cheaper then their X79 board counter parts, they still are seriously limited to what they can and cannot use on with them.

I don't use Aircoolers or them all in one water cooling kits, they work good but I prefer the higher end water blocks/rads. Again what exactly are you wanting? A basic everyday simple gaming rig, or something that will give you a lot more flexibility? While the truth that game only utilize "up to quad core CPU's" is thruthful, there are games that can utilize a full fledged hex core with hyper threading, mostly when you kick on Ageia physx. But these types of games are very few and far in between.

so lets keep things simple and start with the basic question that you need answer first. Because I can burn up to 6 grand on a computer quite easily. and even tho it would be extremely high end, if you don't like it, you wont like it.

What exactly are you wanting? A basic everyday simple gaming rig, or something that will give you a lot more flexibility?

a tid bit of info, even though the newer 3 gen cpu's are fast they still cannot keep up with a fully fledged Hex core cpu (970 or the newer 2nd gen) once all of the cores get opened u and utilized. A 5 Ghz 2600k can barely keep up with a stock 3.3 Ghz 970 again once all threads are fully utilized on a hex core CPU. This would be application dependent, not all programs utilize all threads of a quad core properly.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:07 pm

upgrade-ability and alright gaming rig. though i don't think i could risk high OC in case of corrupting a weeks worth of art work
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:09 pm

TBGAPowa wrote:upgrade-ability and alright gaming rig. though i don't think i could risk high OC in case of corrupting a weeks worth of art work

ok are you thinking about adding in more cards or other expansion cards in the future? besides a second video card?
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:12 pm

yes but would that be worth it when by the time i choose to, there would be much better components for a good price?
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:22 pm

TBGAPowa wrote:yes but would that be worth it when by the time i choose to, there would be much better components for a good price?
that is a chance that we all have to take, but I currently have a 970 CPU on a R2E motherboard. and other then not having USB 3 or SATA 6Gbs capabilities it is still a very much viable gaming rig even today. Me I go with a X79 based platform with a 3820 Quad core CPU, strapped to either a Asus x79 Pro/Deluxe, or a Sabertooth motherboard. If asus is not your thing Msi's GD65, or big bang motherboards, or Gigabytes Ud5, UD7, or the assassin motherboards. The X79 will give you greater flexability on what can be added later, MSI And Asus' motherboard can utilize up 8 DIMMs of memory giving you a grand total of up to 64 GIgs of memory. Gigabyte is limited to 4 DIMMS (which is their biggest downfall). And it will cost around the same as a Z78 3 gen Ivy bridge CPU.

Video cards might as well get a 670 or a 680 since they are out now, and wont add much more cost to the computer might as well go with the newest out currently, no point in going with older tech if you can help it. If any one wants to discuss these options I am willing to do so in private.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:27 pm

but wouldn't a 680 only be 2-5% faster than a 670? would a 680 be necessary for 1080p? if i go higher res then maybe 680/ later on dual SLI
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:34 pm

both are great GPU's i can not answer what would be best for your set up. all i can say is, if it was me and I could afford a high end video card I get the 680 myself.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by TBGAPowa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:36 pm

Are the headphones I listed nicely compatible with the soundcard? I wan't 7.1 surround and listen to music that is at mid range.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:38 pm

You have to look at reviews I don't use headphones very often, if I do they are turtle beach head sets. Now if you wanting great sound, get a creative X-Fi sound card.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by vbironchef » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:27 pm

I suggest that you get your head examined before you buy a 3K rig. You must be single with no girl friend to spend that kind of money for a computer that will be used for playing games. Life must be good in Canada. But, I still think your nuts! :lol:
Edit: Do yourself a favor and buy a TV and buy a game console. Maybe a sound system to boot!

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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by DragonFury » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:38 pm

Game console? you on drugs or something? Then what would you say about my current rig? core i 7 970, R2E, 12 gigs of mem, 2 320 momentus hdds, 1 SSd 128 gig, 1 tb hdd, 2 6970 vids, 2 koolance 697 blocks, koolance 360 cpu block, 1 quad 120mm XSPC rad, 1 Swiftech triple 120mm rad , PC power and cooling 950 watt PSU, 3 x 24" LED 1920 x 1080 monitors. And hopefully in the next couple of weeks i will be switching out to a X79 based board with a 3820 CPU with 16 gigs of memory. think I should use a console over the above system? You are definitely on drugs my friend and it isnt the good kind.

If someone wants to burn 3k on a system then by all means go for it. who are we to say yes or no?
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Post by vbironchef » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:18 pm

DragonFury wrote:Game console? you on drugs or something? Then what would you say about my current rig? core i 7 970, R2E, 12 gigs of mem, 2 320 momentus hdds, 1 SSd 128 gig, 1 tb hdd, 2 6970 vids, 2 koolance 697 blocks, koolance 360 cpu block, 1 quad 120mm XSPC rad, 1 Swiftech triple 120mm rad , PC power and cooling 950 watt PSU, 3 x 24" LED 1920 x 1080 monitors. And hopefully in the next couple of weeks i will be switching out to a X79 based board with a 3820 CPU with 16 gigs of memory. think I should use a console over the above system? You are definitely on drugs my friend and it isnt the good kind.
Your wasting your money as well.

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