Legit Reviews

alrighty, i just joined today and all, and Apoptosis and the others were suprisingly quick in getting back to me so here goes nothing.

i'm basically looking to buy myself a HUGE upgrade from my sub-P3 compaq, which is embarrassingly incompetent even with winamp and firefox running simultaneously. i'll put my current home pc specs up later, but first, i thought i'd share the result of me + ibuypower and a half hour. bear with me, but i'm trying to get the absolute biggest bang for my buck now and believe me the cash flow is tight.

here's the current build: (as built on ibuypower)
selected options
1- Raidmax O2 Gaming Tower Case w/400W Power Supply, Black
2- NZXT PF-500 500 Watt Power Supply
3- Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2x 2.13GHz/2MB L2 Cache/1066FSB)
4- Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit --- [for INTEL CPU]
5- ECS 965T-A P965 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, USB .0 PCI-E MB (not sure about this pick but it was cheap but not the cheapest)
6-2048MB RAM [1024MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair/Major Brand
7- 2x Nvidia GeForce 7600GS 512MB w/DVI + TV Out Video
8- option: Major Video Card Brand Powered by NVIDIA
9- 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache]
10- no 2nd harddrive I already own one (LaCie I think it’s a nice external 500Gb)
11- [Lightscribe Technology] 16X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black
12- no 2nd ROM, I already own a good dvd rom/burner to switch in
13- 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
14- 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System cause its cheap and if you don’t get it you’re only saving 4 bucks. Like you could find this for 4 bucks anywhere? Riiiiiiight.
15- Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
16- Viewsonic 22" Widescreen VG2230wm TFT LCD Monitor 1680x1050 [Black] (had exceptional reviews on NewEgg.com)
17- Thermal Temperature LCD Display, Black
18- 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer, Black
19- Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower
20- Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps PCI Adapter
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actual price=$1,984.00 final including shipping
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the pc is going to need to be able to run high CPU sucking programs like protools and logic, as well as reason. in addition to that, i NEED a good gaming rig as you'll see after i post the current computer specs :shudders: just promise you won't laugh ;)

now i know this is getting long, but i just want to say that i'm in need of a pc before i move out, and the reason why i like ibuypower is that they build it for me and the warranty and all. I AM OPEN TO DIFFERENT SITES I AM NOT SPAMMING FOR THEM >.< got in trouble with this same kind of post on another, much less cool forum.

opinions?

Check out Zip Zoom Fly, http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Home.jsp. A lot of the time you can find items with "free" shipping, plus they tend to have some of the best pricing around. Newegg is another option and they are an excellent online retailer as well.

Make sure that you check out the Legit Deals section in the forums for some awesome deals around the internet. Also, check out the Reviews section for hardware that has been reviewed by this site as you will find some really good information there. Cases and PSU's are regularly discussed here and I bet you can find something that will better serve your needs. You will find that the people here are very staunch believers in quality over quantity and a PSU is something that you just don't skimp on.

If you need anything else please do not hesitate to ask.

Welcome to LR!

Razorbacx

got in trouble with this same kind of post on another, much less cool forum.

Butter us up so you don't get told off.
Nah, its cool, pretty obvious that you're not spamming.

First off, building your own PC will allow you to get a lot better bang for the buck. But if you don't feel technically competent enough to do so then don't worry.

Secondly, I would really recommend getting one 7900GS over two 7600GS's, it will give you A LOT better performance at your chosen monitors resolution.

Dan

you will never get yelled at here when asking a question.

thanks a bunch! now as far as the system build i have up there, any pros? any cons? i'm really not able to spend more than a few hundred dollars, and i'm not entirely sure that buying separate parts would be cost effective for my situation. with all i have up there can someone tell me more about what kind of other builds would be just as much bang for my bucks?

For a video card I wouldn't get anything less than a 7900GS. Two 7600GS will be slower than a single 7900GS. Also, I would get a better power supply than NZXT.

I would also look at your monitor of choice...See how much your system is without the Viewsonic and consider the Dell 22". It used to be cheaper, but right now they have it for $329. Not bad for a quality monitor.

It might save you some pennies....

Can you please clarify whether or not the components you listed are already purchased or have you selected these parts as part of a build from an online e-tailer?

You would be very surprised at how much you would save if you purchased these components separately. Also, with a little guidance and safe ESD practice you can build your own for far less than you can buy a pre-built one with far superior components and a better warranty to boot.

If you're wanting a Gaming rig then you need to ask yourself if spending some extra money to future proof your build is worth the debt or if you'll be happy with yesterday's technology at a bargain price. Your choice of processor is excellent, but I would reconsider your choice of PSU and I'm sure that you can find better cases for roughly the same cost. Check the Review section and you'll find some PSU's that have been previously reviewed. DO NOT SKIMP on your PSU. As far as your motherboard goes I'll leave that one up to someone with more tech knowledge than myself. As for your other components they look good, but you may want to look at the Dell and Samsung monitors as they are the best in my opinion.

Good Luck!

Can you please clarify whether or not the components you listed are already purchased or have you selected these parts as part of a build from an online e-tailer?

definately still in the planning phase. i guess i do need to sit down and see just how much i'd save by building it myself. i'll be honest, i'm afraid of botching the entire operation and ending up flushing my dollars down the tubes. another thing, why is the PSU such a big deal? i need to know the WHY's before i BUY anything

thanks cyberneticimplant, i looked at the specs and i'm suprised that theres such a noticeable difference in performance in reviews.

i wouldnt mind sticking with my CRT monitor until i can find a good deal on a nice LCD one, if it's necessary to save some cash. if anyone could, would you please suggest some alternatives to this build. like go down the list and show me how i'd be able to get a better PC by putting it together and with what you'd use. basically, if that was confusing, just go down the list and tell me what YOU'D do to keep the cost down and at least make the thing fast.

i don't care if it's not state of the art lol not in the least. i just want what everyone wants: the most computer for the price.

For $2000 you can build a pretty killer system.

This is what I would personally be looking at.

E6400 - $222
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115004

EVGA 680i Mobo - $225
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813188010

2GB Corsair XMS $244 minus $40 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145034

EVGA 7950GT 512MB - $270 minus $15 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130061

WD 250GB - $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822144701

Samsung DVD Burner - $32
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827151136

Corsair 620W - $180 minus $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139002

Lian Li Case - $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112099

About $1338 minus $75 rebates. Then you got the rest for an LCD, speakers, mouse, an aftermarket CPU cooler, or whatever.

Modify as needed, spend a little bit here, save a little bit there, depending on what your priorities are. You can even go for a Geforce 8800 if you want to.

When planning to buy a system it is always a good idea to read hardware reviews to know what you are buying.

A good power supply is important because it will power all that expensive hardware. If you use a low quality or weak power supply you might get an unstable system that crashes often, or in the worst case scenario damage due to power supply failure. Also, wattage rating does not indicate how powerful a PSU is. Wattage is a measure of how much electricity it uses, not how much current it generates.

Okay, biggest bang for the buck eh? Your best bet is gonna be select the components yourself & put it together with your own hands. There's much more satisfaction saying "I Built It"!

1- Raidmax O2 Gaming Tower Case w/400W Power Supply, Black
2- NZXT PF-500 500 Watt Power Supply

Try to find a case you like minus the PSU. Think aesthetics, functionality & cooling. The extra money saved could be spent on a much better PSU that will hold up to your requirements for now & your future.
The PSU selected I've never come across the brand name. For the price that these go for, you can get a better one that will be more reliable for you.

3- Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2x 2.13GHz/2MB L2 Cache/1066FSB)

Uggg, this is what I fought when I selected my e6300.. bang for the buck does equal the e6300. Decent air cooling can get this thing above 3GHz & very good water can potentially get 100% overclock. You could also consider any of the e4xxx that are out now & are coming out as well. The 4300 is proving to be a monster with it's higher multiplier than the 6300 which also makes it a bit easier to achieve overclocking by increasing it's FSB speed. I do have to admit, that I have had an e6600 in my cart more than one time though but decided not to because I really do want quad-core.

4- Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit --- [for INTEL CPU]

I'm not gonna touch this one with a 10' pole... My advise for this would be to do a ton of reading at the various hardware forums to find people that have similar systems. I purchased the majority of my stuff second hand off ebay and off "For Sale" threads at hardware forums. You'll probably hear the same thing time & again if you asked..... DO NOT ORDER A PRE-FABBED KIT!!!!

5- ECS 965T-A P965 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, USB .0 PCI-E MB (not sure about this pick but it was cheap but not the cheapest)

No personal experience with this board, but bang for the buck would surely not be this one. Look towards the ASUS or Gigabyte boards(you could insert the eVGA & the Intel board as well for more $$). I'm waiting to see if DFI fixes a couple of the issues they have with their board & I may make the change myself

6-2048MB RAM [1024MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair/Major Brand

There is nothing I can say here.. I don't know how these were branded, but the Dominators are outstanding & wish I could have gotten a set of them instead of the ones I got.

7- 2x Nvidia GeForce 7600GS 512MB w/DVI + TV Out Video

Ahh.. I see you have 2 listed... you must be planning on running SLI, well, there's your answer to the importance of the PSU if you wish to do so.. I'm not really too much of a gamer, but at this point, the 8800 series cards will singly beat out two 7600GS's from everything I've read. I think i've seen a 8800GT down to around $400 which would be really close to the amount you are probably looking at.

9- 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache]

Must be a Seagate .. Ain't they purty?

11- [Lightscribe Technology] 16X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black
12- no 2nd ROM, I already own a good dvd rom/burner to switch in
13- 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
14- 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System cause its cheap and if you don’t get it you’re only saving 4 bucks. Like you could find this for 4 bucks anywhere? Riiiiiiight.
15- Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)

You could negate these if you were building your own system per your comments & you could get a Creative 5.1 surround system for ~$50.

16- Viewsonic 22" Widescreen VG2230wm TFT LCD Monitor 1680x1050 [Black] (had exceptional reviews on NewEgg.com)

17- Thermal Temperature LCD Display, Black

If you really gotta have it :D

18- 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer, Black

Read above

19- Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower

Strategic use of wire-ties & looms does wonders. You can also purchase all kinds of different sleeves for the wires as well. There's articles written all over about hiding your wiring. I'm sure a google search could show you a few ;)

20- Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps PCI Adapter

Nada to say about this.

You don't mention your technical ability, but don't be afraid to put this thing together yourself. Razorbacx had some good comments regarding this topic & as was mentioned, please consider purchasing a much better Power Supply! If your pc was your body, the PSU would be the heart. Without it functioning, everything else would die.

Edited for additional comments
Duly noted on the posts ^^ & vv .... some good suggestions.. I didn't know about the ASUS 650i board.. I'm going to go read some now ... Whatever you choose, good luck!!

I agree with the PSU. Look at my sticky in the Case section. Or PM me if you have any questions

On the processor, the E6400 is the best OCer

For the board, I would go better. Take a look at the Front Page, the Asus 650i offering is cheap and overclocks like a beast

Rams fine, but none of the 6400 corsair has good Ocing chips

Ditto on the Video. Get something better. 7950 or 7900GT/GS would be a better bet

HDD is fine

Get a normal 16X DVD its cheaper. No need for the lightscribe

Sound is fine, Monitor is fine

I don't see the need for a temp or card reader, bit if you feel the need go for it

Witing you could do your self.

I'm partial to USB Wireless adapters

On cooling prefab kits are fine if its Swiftech. Just say no to anything else, there overpriced and underpreform

You don't mention your technical ability, but don't be afraid to put this thing together yourself

alright well i've been pouring my time into this research and i've decided to build my own. i'm crossing my fingers and i'm starting to understand all these terms i used to cringe at. understanding what motherboards do, why a chipset can do what it does, why you need a better PSU , just what the heck overclocking is, and the list goes on and on. i'm really thinking i'm going to buy myself the ASUS 650i motherboard off of newegg this week and then buy as i can afford. my dad (computer programer/professor) cringes at the thought of me dropping money on 2 video cards, but i want to be able to run some high end games since i never have. but i can buy one and then the other later right? ok ok ok i'm hemming and hawing. i'm trying to locate some case reviews as well. i'm not too sure just WHAT makes a case good or bad/hot or cool running. and i'm still a bit iffy as to how a PSU does its job i mean i watched Home Improvement and i understand the "more power, hoh hoh hoh!" philosophy but i need to learn more.

keep the flow of info up and i'll be building this PC as soon as you can say "i'm not a n00b anymore"

ok i've been researching like a madman the past week!
i've decided on 2 components for sure:

one ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - $144.99 off newegg.com minus $10 instant savings for $132.99

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813131142

one Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6400 at $222.00 off newegg.com because i haven't had ANY experience overclocking yet and and i'd like to have some out-of-the box power anyhow.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6819115004

i'm looking at this case: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6811129154
but i haven't decided on it yet.

as for RAM, i'm hoping to get some high-performance sticks 2gb (2x sticks of 1gb) but i'm not quite done researching how they work. anyone want to school me on the quality of these babies? ---> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820145579

also the PSU issue i keep coming back to. i really don't even know how to calculate my needs, so with all that i've listed, what would be a good choice keeping in mind that i WILL eventually purchase a second video card to use in SLI mode.

as for cooling systems, i'm going to want to let the fans do their thing before i ever try out a liquid cooling system due to cost and inexperience installing and maintaining it (does this case up top come with the fans?! should i buy extras or upgrades?!).

oh! almost forgot my harddrives: 2 of these suckers i think. http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822144701

or maybe even these seagate barracudas http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6822148141

either way, i'll need to figure out just how much power i'll need for my PSU. once again i pose more questions to the LR Team!

as for RAM, i'm hoping to get some high-performance sticks 2gb (2x sticks of 1gb) but i'm not quite done researching how they work. anyone want to school me on the quality of these babies? ---> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820145579

That RAM is DDR. That motherboard will only take DDR2 RAM.

I've made the same mistake when planning my first build.

Also, Value RAM is not for overclocking. You need good RAM to overclock.

warm fuzzies! i feel helped

ok i did a little looking and reading over in the articles section. seems like corsair is the best choice. i'm prepared to dish out some ca$h seeing how much money i'm saving on this machine. which of these would you recommend?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145590
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145167

i'm just not sure if the dominators are going to be worth the extra performance for my machine though, so i didn't include the link...

also, what does everyone think about the new look of the machine?

Look at the specifications. One of the RAM kits is DDR2 800 (PC2 6400), and the other one is DDR2 675 (PC2 5400). So, one runs at a higher speed than the other.

Also, it looks like both kits have a max voltage of 1.9V If you overclock you might need to increase voltage. That's why I would recommend one of these kits, because you can increase the voltage in case you need to.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145168

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145034

Looks like they increased the price of this one by $60 since the last time i posted.

Very nice case & if you like it a lot, here's a great deal for ya:
Black: http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4843800
Regular: http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4470306
$79.99 After Rebate

The e6600 is also going for around $300 there if you do a search.. If you live in a city where frys is located, I believe these deals are good for their instore as well.

I'd look at the Dominators as well.. Price is waaay up there, but worth it when /if you go to overclock your build:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145168
($244 after rebate isn't too bad)

You could get yourself a 10,000RPM Raptor to install your Operating System & Games, then purchase a higher capacity cheaper drive for storage. This drive actually has a see-thru cover as well, which is really cool ;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136033

Just my opinions is all, but you seem like your on your way... As far as your power supply, take a look at dicecca112's post (link to follow) and probably look for something around the 500W area to cover your current needs. If you think you are going to be upgrading any time soon, look at the higher capacity ones. You really can't "Over-buy" on a PSU as you'll only use the power you need for your system & not what it's rated at.
http://forums.legitreviews.com/viewtopic.php?t=7169

cyberneticimplant wrote:
Also, Value RAM is not for overclocking. You need good RAM to overclock.

That's no true! You CAN overclock with cheap RAM!
The advantages of having fast RAM is that it's easier to overclock!
The extra memory bandwidth from fast ram only gives ~5% more performance! Don't get sucked in with all the marketing hype!

You can always run ram on a lower divider, that's what it's there for ;P
But if your budget can cope with it, get some PC6400 Cas 4 sticks! Even if they are not based on the legendary Micron chips, if using a E6600 your not going to need a very high FSB to get results........ie. use the "1:1" divider and clock the ram back upto 800MHz --> Ram stays at stock but the CPU gets a nice boost ;)

considering my build up top (the Antec Performance One P180, the ASUS 650i mobo, probably the C2D e6400 CPU while i wait for prices to come down and a Corsair CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply) what would YOU do in my shoes about RAM?

with that asked, keep in mind that i have no experience with OCing, and although i want to learn as soon as i can, i need an out-of-the-box (so to speak even though i'm going to build it myself) fast ram kit.

i DO plan to learn and overclock it though
what are your thoughts?