Overhaulling the rig (Read S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is killing my PC!)

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:27 am

Ok, so it's that time again. Time to evolve the PC into the next level. Here is what I'm currently running.

abit A8-32X
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 939
2G DDR400 Corsair XMS RAM
HIS X1900XT Radeon 512M (Non Crossfire controller)
OCz 600W PSU
80G 10,000RPM Raptor SATA Drive

That's the mission critical components.

I HAD planned on just upgrading to a X2 or FX processor but those are apparently impossible to find. And with more and more games requiring dual core I need to make the change now, or find myself on the bottom end of the curve.

I'm also looking to get another X1900 to do Crossfire with.

So, I need to move to the next level and need recommendations. I plan on doing no overclocking. I prefer to passivly cool my rig if possible. I prefer AMD processors but wonder about the life of the AM2 socket.

Advice?

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:02 am

How much money do you have to throw into this? That really dictates (ultimately) what people buy...

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:57 am

I was originally going to throw $600 at it and buy a second X1900 and a FX57< Proc.

So I guess lets start with $800. Pretty much anything I'm going to buy is going to require me to get new RAM isn't it?

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:06 pm

Well, in a matter of speaking, yes. I'd suggest going Intel unless you're going to die without an AMD CPU. Intel is really cleaning up right now. A nice E6300 or E6600 paired with a CrossFire mobo will do you good, as will 2GB of quality non-overclocking DDR2-800. Keep your videocard and everything else, actually. You'd be replacing the CPU, memory and motherboard. That's it, thankfully you have a PCI-Express videocard.

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:39 pm

I see. What am I looking at budget wise? Still in the $800 range. I got some adult expenses (new furnace) that's going to be dipping into my play money this year and I'm trying to do this on the cheap, which is a first for me.

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:51 am

Ok, so I'm going to make the leap. I need advice as I've not dealt with Intel gear in years.

Aside from the DFI Lanparty motherboard, is there another Intel board that supports Crossfire? I know this is probably a pipedream since AMD now owns ATI but I do not like nVidia nor do I have intentions to sell my X1900XT.

I've been told by various associates that some versions of the Core2Duo can be overclocked to twice thier rated performance. Is this true?

dgood · Post by **dgood** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:50 am

I am running stalker fine on my fx-60 and 2gigs of ram and x800xt. you just trying to run it completly full? cuz I have it on 1680x1050 and medium to high settings. s939 dual cores 3800+ (2.0) can be found for 99 after rebate on tiger direct oem and get a good cooler on them and you can have them running 2.4-2.6ghz.

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:07 pm

I'm running at Medium detail at 1920x1200, my monitors native resolution.

I'm thinking of taking the plunge to Intel. How does the followin system stack up?

ASUS P5B Deluxe Motherboard (Says it's Crossfire capable)
Intel E6600 Conroe Proc
Corsair XMS2 Dominator 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4D RAM

Think that should do it? That's right at about $800. I've read the E6600 is extremely overclockable due to its low voltage.

dgood · Post by **dgood** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:52 pm

It is definatly better lol. dual core and huge performance increase on teh processor for sure. 1920x1200 is huge resolution. Resolution plays the biggest part on fps.

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:37 am

Ok, further refining my shopping list and needing information still. I appreciate all the input I've recieved so far on my numerous questions. When dropping $1K I like to be happy with my purchase.

Here's what I'm starting with:

abit A8-32X
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 939
2G DDR400 Corsair XMS RAM
HIS X1900XT Radeon 512M (Non Crossfire controller)
OCz 600W PSU
80G 10,000RPM Raptor SATA Drive
200G 7,200 WD storage drive (for ISO's)

Here's what I'll be going to:

Asus P5W DH Delux
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe
HIS X1900XT Radeon 512M x2 Crossfired
OCz 600W PSU
80G 10,000RPM Raptor SATA Drive
200G 7,200 WD Storage Drive

My questions are now down to RAM. While I'd love to buy, and have no problem paying for, Corair Dominator RAM I wonder if I'll actually see an improvment over more "economical" priced Corsair or OCz products given that I'll be OC'ing the processor. I know next to nothing about new generation OC'ing. When I was doing it all you had to do was change the clock multiplier. Someone told me you have to downclock the FSB to increase the speeds. If that's the case will buying "faster" RAM be worth it?

Also, until this point I've been using a Thermaltake passive heat pipe based cooler, and it's worked great for my system up until this point (even on my 64 3700+). I'm assuming I'll need to replace this even though I have an adapter for Intel boards?

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:30 am

How much are you planning on overclocking the E6600? It might be OK if you're not going to push it too far. Without knowing what it is, it might actually be worse than the stock Intel cooler you get with the E6600. Though I would recommend a newer (read active) cooler for any serious OC'ing.

Again with RAM choices it depends on how much you plan on overclocking and how much you want to push your RAM.

Intel overclocking generally works like this:

CPU Speed = FSB speed * CPU Multiplier
e.g. 2403Mhz = 267 * 9

Memory Speed = FSB speed * Divider
e.g. 400Mhz = 267 * 2:3

(The divider is FSB:RAM ratio, take your FSB speed, divide it by the first number and times it by the second, e.g. 267/2 = 133, 133 * 3 = 400)

So to get a successful (stable) CPU overclock you will have to change the memory dividers (there are usually 1:1, 2:3, 5:3 etc options) and reaching the CPU's maximum usually either means you have to overclock or underclock the memory. Choosing a fast speed memory will usually give you the option for better play at overclocking it or allow you to underclock it and still have it running pretty fast.

Hope that helped you in figuring out the overclocking game and deciding if expensive RAM is worth it.

Dan

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:52 am

I was hoping to get at least 3.2 out of the proc as I've seen it run stable up to 3.6 on reviews here. I do not have room for water cooling nor do I wish to have massive noise coming from my PC.

Can you provide me with a breakdown on the math on that, and if it would be stable?

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:30 am

Ok, well if your board has unlocked lower CPU multi's (most good boards do lately with the latest BIOS) there will be several ways to play it, if you want to, just have a mess around with them but the best option would be this:

CPU Speed = FSB Speed * CPU Multi
3200MHz = 400 * 8

Mem Speed = FSB Speed * Divider
400 = 400 * 1

This will allow you to run your RAM at its rated 400MHz with a 1:1 divider (and 1:1 is supposed to give the best performance or something).

As with any overclocking, take it up from stock a few MHz at a time and burn it in some at that speed. You may have to increase the Vcore of the CPU if it starts to become unstable as you are cranking it up, increase it by +0.05v at a time and check if it made it stable (shouldn't have though you'd need more than 1.4v max for that speed).

For cool/quiet cooling get one like these: Scythe Ninja, Tuniq Tower, Thermaltake Big Typhoon.

Dan

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:57 am

Dan,

Thanks for your input. I appreciate hearing from someone who has the same processor as I do. So I should go ahead and get the Corsair Dominator RAM as I'll be able to fully clock it, as opposed to a lower cost 667 module?

The Dominator modules have the following variables:

Memory Speed: 800MHz PC2 6400. Memory CAS Latency: 4-4-4-12.

So, in theory according to your above information I can clock that RAM at half the FSB speed and get 400mhz 2-2-2-6?

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:26 pm

No.

The 400Mhz I quoted is what the system sees the RAM speed at, as its DDR(2) it will access it twice every MHz. So its still 800MHz RAM. The timings are independent to the speed, so will remain at 4-4-4-12 unless you change them (probably best you leave that till youve read up a lot more).

So you will still need 800MHz RAM. But its up to you if you want to get the dominators (which will be cooler, and overclock better if you ever decide to push your RAM over 800) or some other 800MHz 4-4-4-12 RAM.

Dan

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:42 am

Asus P5W DH Delux
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe

And as we discussed in this post:

http://forums.legitreviews.com/viewtopic.php?t=9145

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Timing 4-4-3-5
Cas Latency 4
Voltage 2.0V - 2.1V

Total project cost, $691 shipped. A full $100 under budget.

brites · Post by **brites** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:58 am

Intel?!? Save your money... your eyes can't tell the diference between these "low"!!! end CPU C2D 6300/400 and AMD X2 4200+ and higher

Here is my tip
AMD X2 4200+ (ADO4200IAA5CU) if no OC in mind then chose the 4800+ or the 5000+
2x 1024Mb DDR2 GSkill PC2-6400 (800) CL5 NQ or PK

for ATI Crossfire...
ASUS M2R32-MVP DELUXE or Foxconn C51XEM2AA-8EKRS2H (for OC)

for Nvidia SLI
Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 nforce 590 SLI(3)

You already have ATI so keep with it.. or wait a while and see the Nvidia 8600 DX10 rig that it's poping out any day soon

brites · Post by **brites** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:05 am

sorry... a mistake on the previous post...

Foxconn is SLI ready and not ATI CF

Another choice for CF is MSI K9A PLATINUIM ATI RD580

Skippman · Post by **Skippman** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:15 am

To be honest, after getting stuck in the dead end of socket 939 I'm not going to be buying AMD for quite a while yet. My new board (which I've already ordered) will support quad core CPU's as well as full x16 Crossfire.

I already have the Crossfire on order so that should be here this week.

stopthekilling77 · Post by **stopthekilling77** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:31 am

congrats man, i always get a tinge of jealousy when other people get to order their parts! my wish list has been sitting on newegg for months and months now just waiting for me to press the "buy now" button!

sounds like you'll be having some fun soon!