Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

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rhys216
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:35 am

@ Major_A

So you didn't see anything wrong with this review no?
Yeh, if he's really as good a reviewer as you say he is and that this was just a blip, then yes, it's sad to see him go, and he should definitely reconsider, but that doesn't change the fact that this review was unbelievably crap.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:46 am

rhys216,

Chris has resigned from doing reviews and the card has been returned to Zotac, so this will be the last content on this specific card since we no longer have it in our possession and that Chris is no longer doing reviews. If anyone would like other thoughts on this card they can read my launch article on the GeForce GTX 470 here - http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1287/1/ NVIDIA didn't send us out a GeForce GTX 470 on launch day for some reason, so i had to source it on my own. The only other 470 that we got was this Zotac loaner, so to say that we were biased or pro-nvidia can't be more wrong. Legit Reviews has always been neutral and is not a fan boi site.

With 300+ reviews a year you can expect a bad one or a so-so review to slip through the door. It happens and it's life. I also value reviews like this as it gives our readers perspectives on cards that are by someone other than myself.

I'm not banning you and I haven't edited anything you said, but please understand why I can't get the card back and have it re-reviewed. If it was our only GTX 470 review then yes, I agree with you that it needs to be added to and tested on more game titles, but luckily it was not. Also Chris stands behind his numbers and overclocking results and I still see no reason to doubt him on that. I've known him too many years and he's got his own reputation to worry about.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Major_A » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:48 am

Here's my own personal thoughts. We all know what the GTX 470 can do, that was covered a long time ago. We don't need another rehash of the same tests and results over and over again. Zotac wanted to get their brand some press, and they got it. So he didn't use a bunch of games to test with, so what. Instead of pouring 30 hours into the review he spent 8. At what point did using time demos that support DirectX 11 become a problem? Is it because one of them is located on the nVidia website that there's a bias here?

I can see where you're coming from with the HAWX results but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that at 1680x1050 he's CPU limited. The game is just getting long in the tooth is all.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:56 am

Apoptosis wrote:rhys216,
NVIDIA didn't send us out a GeForce GTX 470 on launch day for some reason, so i had to source my own.
I think the above comment (if true) is enough to show LR's is not a Fanboy site.
I sincerely apologise for my accusations of corruption, and I'm sorry to see LR's get stained with some of Nv's mud.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by spitter » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:17 am

NVIDIA didn't send us out a GeForce GTX 470 on launch day for some reason,.
They probably did not like this to much..

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1264/1/

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 am

spitter wrote:
NVIDIA didn't send us out a GeForce GTX 470 on launch day for some reason,.
They probably did not like this to much..

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1264/1/
^^^
Yep, but it's not just Legit Reviews, it's happened to 3 other review sites also (that I know of), that didn't please Nv PR.
And to be honest I feel sorry for the review sites that Nvidia's crap put's so such pressure on them, and cut's um out just for telling the truth.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Major_A » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:38 pm

Just thought of something... HAWX may have better results on new nVidia hardware but historically it has been a benchmark dominated by ATi hardware since the HD 4xx0 series.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:20 pm

Major_A wrote:Just thought of something... HAWX may have better results on new nVidia hardware but historically it has been a benchmark dominated by ATi hardware since the HD 4xx0 series.
Not sure I see a valid point to this, I have a feeling you feel sorry for the chap and are trying to defend him? If so that's very honourable and you would undoubtedly be a good friend, but unfortunately your swimming up river with this one.

Bottom line find more than one game to benchmark and ones only that arn't known to massively favour one architecture over another.
All he has done is make the 470 look light years better than a 5870 by his selection of tests and single benchmark of a game that has also been benchmarked allot also, but claims not to want to keep benchmarking the same games???

At the end of the day, all this is elementary and should never have happened, but I sure bet Nv are happy, and hopefully they are lining up some 485 samples to send out to ALL reviewers.

The numbers may need checking as well...
Yurihyuga wrote:oh looks like i found something on the power consumption chart, a 5870 overclocked uses less power at idle than a stock 5870? Am I missing something there or just more incompetence on his part.
Panos wrote:I was looked at the review and I have to say that their numbers are bit odd.

How's possible the 5870 on Heaven be slower at 1680x1050 than at 1920x1200 when they did the test few months ago?

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by skier » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:35 pm

it's a reference AIB card, why does everyone care so much? AIB reference card articles are always fluff anyways, only things that vary are the photoshoot and overclocking results

if you want broad performance comparisons with prerelease drivers look at the launch articles every year or so and nothing else.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by geokilla » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:55 pm

Thanks for your reply Gomeler. Now after reading all the comments, I got a few things I want to say.

1. This review should be done with more games and not benchmarks. I have learned that those benchmarks are only good for putting up numbers and give you a general idea of a GPU's performance. It can be absolutely useless when it comes to actual gaming. Plus the fact that Stone Giant makes the Zotac GTX 470 look like it completely destroyed the ATI 5870 is simply mis-leading.

2. If you're busy with real life things, then you shouldn't really put up such a review. I'm pretty disappointed.

3. For all those people that said Gomeler was spoon-fed by NVIDIA and was paid off, do you know what Legit Reviews is like? Do you know who Gomeler is? This site is one of the few sites that will actually do such things. And Gomeler is widely respected in the enthusiast community from what I've read.

All in all, poor review.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Major_A » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:04 pm

I wasn't defending him, I was pointing out that HAWX was a heavily favored ATi title.

Example:
Image

So by your logic that title shouldn't have been used then because ATi cards were far and away the better hardware?

I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by geokilla » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:06 pm

@Major. Are you directing that at me? If you are, HawX is actually a NVIDIA optimized game.

After talking to some reviewers, it seems that the GTX 470 does beat the ATI 5870 in terms of heavy tessellation.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by pwcmed » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:10 pm

Lets just admit that this was a very bad review. There is nothing wrong with criticism!

Chris did write this in the article that said he was going to try something different but really didn't specify what.
Back in April Nate published a review on the ASUS GTX 470 and today for your viewing pleasure we have ZOTAC's GTX 470. The two cards are reference cards so there shouldn't be a difference due to hardware but perhaps we can show you another side of the GTX 470.
If he went in to more detail into what that other side was then it might of been different. Any issues with the test themselves should have been in the review as well.

The reason I have a problem with this review is that people come on to this site all the time to get your opinions on hardware. Sometimes they have no clue on what to get. You can't assume that everyone reading the article knows how each video cards performs.

Nate do you read these review before the get go out?

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:28 pm

Major_A wrote:I wasn't defending him, I was pointing out that HAWX was a heavily favored ATi title.

Example:
Image

So by your logic that title shouldn't have been used then because ATi cards were far and away the better hardware?

I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
No actually you fail to correctly see my logic.
Let me break down my position for you.

1) The fact the title previously favoured Ati has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.

2) The game heavily favours Fermi architecture over current Ati. Including this game would not be a problem if further titles were included to average out the performance charts.

3) At the moment the review gives a distorted view of the performance of the GTX 470. There is no two ways about it, it is simply misleading consumers, and that is unacceptable whether your in the red or green camp.

4) The review for whatever reason, appears to be extremely biased to about 9 out of 10 people, and what with the previous reports citing Nv was putting weight on reviewers (by withholding review product) to publish the review they 'wanted' to see. This causes great suspicion to most people. Some may even believe that the author was putting out an uncharacteristically positive Nv review in the hope of being included with free pre-launch samples to review for future products. This may not be the case in this instance, but someone could be forgiven for thinking so.

5) Did this review even show us anything worthwhile, that the first review didn't? The author wanted to show us a different side to Fermi without finding the time or equipment to write a quality review. The only side he showed us, was one that was make believe and not representative of 'real' world gaming.

If I missed anything, someone please let me know.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Raven1001 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Yeah, Legit should take it down, it's one of the worst reviews I have read, he's using synthetic benchmarks to compare cards and then coming out with stuff like the 470 will beat an overclocked 5870 in the near future, it's moronic.

Regarding hawx, I mean it has been benched in nearly every fermi review, so yes we know it scales very well on fermi cards which is probably why it is the only game he benched, sorry but the review is biased and inept, Legit should be embarrassed to have it on their front page, the fact they have not took it down says to a lot of people they like to please Nvidia.
With a few revisions I imagine the GTX 470 will easily outperform the HD 5870 and quite possibly the super HD 5870 like the Gigabyte SuperOverclock and MSI Lightning.
If that's not biased then I don't know what is, he came to that conclusion with two synthetic benchmarks and crappy hawx released in January 2009 lol lol

So it's going to be a good purchase for those that like to run heaven and stone giant bench all day. :finga:

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Major_A » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:56 pm

I feel like we're just arguing semantics now. He's done reviewing, the owner of the site called the article "bad" and it all seemed like an after thought of a review. It's done and what's done is done.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Raven1001 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:57 pm

Why is it still on the main page if it's a " bad review ".

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:17 pm

I'm waiting to talk with Zotac on the review and what their thoughts are. I'm not sure why you guys keep talking about NVIDIA as they have nothing to do with this review at all. Zotac sent us the sample, so I am interested to hear their feedback on the review.

Like Major_A said the review is done and posted... All reviews get the most traffic on the first day they are posted and then quickly die off. To pull it down doesn't make much sense as his numbers are right and the only thing ticking everyone off is his benchmark selection and final thoughts.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:22 pm

Yeh, I don't understand why it's still up? It serves no value to the public and just makes Nv PR happy but makes LR look bad.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:30 pm

rhys216 wrote:Yeh, I don't understand why it's still up? It serves no value to the public and just makes Nv PR happy but makes LR look bad.
If the numbers are incorrect then I'll pull it down right now. Are the numbers incorrect? Chris said his numbers are spot on and averages of three runs, so I don't doubt his performance numbers.

If i pulled every review down that someone disagreed with we'd have no reviews up.

Like I said before I'm waiting to talk about this review with Zotac and want to see what they think.
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