Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:38 pm

Apoptosis wrote:I'm waiting to talk with Zotac on the review and what their thoughts are. I'm not sure why you guys keep talking about NVIDIA as they have nothing to do with this review at all. Zotac sent us the sample, so I am interested to hear their feedback on the review.


I think people suspect Nv of having something to do with this review simply because of Nv's questionable conduct. People know what Nv is like, and when they see such a review that makes no sense but to make Nv look good... well it's going to raise some eyebrows whether that is how it is or not. Also Zotac will no doubt love the review unless they don't want to be part of the bad press this review is getting.

Apoptosis wrote: Like Major_A said the review is done and posted... All reviews get the most traffic on the first day they are posted and then quickly die off. To pull it down doesn't make much sense as his numbers are right and the only thing ticking everyone off is his benchmark selection and final thoughts.
The only thing ticking people off is that the review is simply misleading. Why would you want to keep a review that was misleading up? Perhaps your going to get allot of page views, but these people will most probably have read other Fermi reviews or will read other Fermi reviews that contradict this review, what will they think of LR then?

Obviously it's your call, but if you leave it up in it's current form, your only hurting the image of LR and possibly some too trusting shoppers wallets.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Raven1001 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:43 pm

Well you should really edit out his conclusion if you're are going to keep it up because I doubt Zotac will be crying over it lol. How can anyone come to his 470 loving conclusion when benched with four synthetic benchmarks and one 19 month old crappy game all at one rez, do you not see the problem with this.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by geokilla » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:19 pm

No need to take it down, but some editing should be done in order to make it more like a Legit Reviews review. Maybe state that it was a rushed review?
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:28 pm

geokilla wrote:No need to take it down, but some editing should be done in order to make it more like a Legit Reviews review. Maybe state that it was a rushed review?
Chris had the card for more than a month... shouldn't have been a rushed review on his end. He resigned... not sure what else to say.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by InspectahACE » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:11 pm

That's a damn shame. :( I always liked his reviews and look forward to the new Rampage board review I hope he's doing.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by trucz » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:45 pm

honestly i read this review first before apoptosis's review and i did think that this card was a better card than the 5870 in performance. with that said, im sure people dont read one review with only two three games tested and then buy the product itself. yes the article was misleading but i guess im not passionate enough to get angry at a reviewer.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:31 am

trucz wrote:honestly i read this review first before apoptosis's review and i did think that this card was a better card than the 5870 in performance. with that said, im sure people dont read one review with only two three games tested and then buy the product itself. yes the article was misleading but i guess im not passionate enough to get angry at a reviewer.
Ever heard the phrase "give an inch, they take a mile", well when ever you think the world is in bad shape... it's because not enough people were passionate enough to stop them taking yards!
Whatever your boundaries are, people will find them, it just so happens mine/other peoples boundaries stop at miss-informing the general populace, which could also and more dramatically be termed 'Lying' to consumers.
This is a big 'no' no' if your wanting to retain the notion that people can read your reviews and trust your telling them the truth.

This review says the GTX 470 makes mince meat of the 5870. This is not true and if anything it competes against the 5850. Infact other more recent and comprehensive reviews show the 5850 outpacing the GTX 470 in the majority of titles.

At the end of the day there is NO justifiable excuse for leaving this mis-leading review up, because the only purpose it serves is to make Nvidia and Zotac look better than they really are, so at the very least it should be edited considerably.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:46 am

In case you guys haven't noticed...

Last night I removed the article from the front page, put a disclaimer on the test page saying that the reviewer tested limited games and to read our original article for better benchmarking and then I took a bunch of the conclusion and only really left the pricing and power consumption information that Chris wrote.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:52 am

No I didn't notice. Sounds fair enough though and was the right thing to do.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:00 am

trucz wrote:honestly i read this review first before apoptosis's review and i did think that this card was a better card than the 5870 in performance. with that said, im sure people dont read one review with only two three games tested and then buy the product itself. yes the article was misleading but i guess im not passionate enough to get angry at a reviewer.
Thanks for the feedback trucz, the article has been heavily edited.

This whole situation saddens me and I would like to apologize to everyone.

Zotac won't return any of my e-mails or phone calls from yesterday, so I haven't heard a peep from them and I wanted to talk to them to explain wtf happened before I did heavy edits. oh well, I tried to talk to Zotac the prior to any edits, but no big deal. I contacted Chris (the author) on Monday afternoon telling him there were comments in the forums that he needed to address. By Tuesday morning at 6am he still hadn't responded or backed up his article. I e-mailed, im'd and texted him at ~6am on Tuesday asking him to reply to our readers concerns... He does so and ends up resigning in the process... I ask him yesterday if he wants to edit the article or his thoughts and nothing happens and no comment yet.

I have gone ahead and edited the conclusion and added a disclaimer on the top of the test settings page. I have also removed it from the front page of the website. In all honesty less than 1500 unique visitors have even looked at page one and less than 1000 people have read the conclusion. This article was lightly read, so in the big picture this 'screw up' was a minor one. Some of our launch articles get 300,000 to 400,000 unique reads, so 1500 visitors is nothing.

I'd also like to take some blame for this as well. The review was a 30 day loaner card that Chris requested back in April. The review wasn't done on time and I have been riding Chris to get it done. I wanted it up before I left for Taiwan for Computex and it didn't happen. Chris finished up the review over the weekend and I posted it up Monday after sending it to the editor and shouldn't have. I had a choice to make. Piss off a company that I have never worked with before (Zotac) and not post their review and send them a card back that was a month over the month loaner period or post it and call it good enough. I made a mistake on this one and after publishing 1500 reviews over the past 8 years I think we can all agree that this is not normal for Legit Reviews and has never happened before in the 8 year history of the site. The author of this article has quit and I will be stepping up quality control of the contributors content here on LR.

I'm asking all of our fans and even our haters to cut us some slack on this one incident. It's not normal and I think we can all agree to that.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Raven1001 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:52 am

Legit has gained a lot respect for their actions taken over the review so thanks for that, of my blacklist. =D>

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Johnny C » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:59 am

There is nothing wrong with this review in the slightest. This is a review like others around the web but the only difference being it has not talked nonsense to favour ATI.

Gomeler : What you have to understand, is that the people that here have came from Overclockers forum. Now the graphics card section of that forum is hugely ATI fanboy based, I mean proper Fanboy stuff. Your review is already being talked about on there, believe me it doesnt take long.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showth ... t=18155102

The reason they don't like it, especially from Raven :roll: Is that there is no mention of you laughing at nVidia, your don't slate nVidia like semiaccurate and there is no favourable mention of ATI in your review. They dont like this, you see ? You simply can not have a normal review without upsetting the ATI masses.

The other thing you have to understand Gomeler is that they cant use this review to make themselves feel good, it's a threat to them. You have, without motivation, threatened their purchase, this in turn had this effect where they jump onto the forum to register to call you a fanboy and state that because you never slated nVidia in your review that you must have been paid off.

You cant keep everyone happy, but you can ignore the trolls.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Johnny C » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:04 am

Apoptosis, do you realise you just completely caved in to the ATI fanboys ?

The numbers were incorrect ? Have you read half the reviews around the web on the GTX480 for example ? The heat & noise is way off what they are like from the owners. Did they edit their reviews ? Did the ATI fanboys bombard those sites to complain that their 'facts' and figures were off ? Like hell they did.

A nice little foxtrot Oscar is all thats needed to say to those lowlifes.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:53 am

Lol @ Jonny C (by the sounds of it everything he just said about FB's could be applied to him), I new one moron troll would have to take this thread down the 'fanboy' road.
The review was horribly biased and mislead readers as the vast majority of people would agree, at least the ones on the right side of the bell curve. end of...

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Johnny C » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:32 am

rhys216 wrote:Lol @ Jonny C (by the sounds of it everything he just said about FB's could be applied to him), I new one moron troll would have to take this thread down the 'fanboy' road.
The review was horribly biased and mislead readers as the vast majority of people would agree, at least the ones on the right side of the bell curve. end of...
Honestly, how you can complain about a review because it didnt suit you, baffles the mind. Thats the whole point of reviews, you read, you may base it to make a purchase, you may read to learn about the tech its using, but to complain because there were no benchmarks to show the 5870 winning is quite honestly laughable.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Johnny C » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:38 am

Raven1001 wrote:Legit has gained a lot respect for their actions taken over the review so thanks for that, of my blacklist. =D>
I doubt they care what you think, your a nobody from the overclockers forum, who worship the ground ATI walks on. Legit has never lost any respect, the only thing that may be questioned here is why the hell did they listen to the likes of someone like you. ?

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:39 am

Johnny C wrote:Apoptosis, do you realise you just completely caved in to the ATI fanboys ?
Not in the slightest... All the data is still there. The article does need some help though and like you said it still serves a purpose for those wanting to do research in what they buy. By linking back to my GTX 470 review people can get a different perspective on the card.

For example I showed the GTX 470 not doing as hot compared to the Radeon HD 5870 as he did:

Image

Chris failed to mention any game settings that he used or if AA was enabled or disabled or if the game was patched...

Then look at mine:

Image

my settings:
Image
Image

For this game I benchmarked with VSync was turned off, but Antialiasing was turned on and set to 8x for better image quality. All of the DirectX 10 options were set to high including Ambient occlusion (SSAO) on both the NVIDIA and ATI graphics cards. The game was patched with update v1.2, which was the most current patch. The results of my test show the Radeon HD 5870 is 14.5% faster at 1280 x 1024 and 5% faster at 1920x1200 than a GeForce GTX 470. He showed that it was just 2% faster at 1680x1050, but my testing shows that it should have been a greater difference.
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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:53 am

Johnny C wrote:
rhys216 wrote:Lol @ Jonny C (by the sounds of it everything he just said about FB's could be applied to him), I new one moron troll would have to take this thread down the 'fanboy' road.
The review was horribly biased and mislead readers as the vast majority of people would agree, at least the ones on the right side of the bell curve. end of...
Honestly, how you can complain about a review because it didnt suit you, baffles the mind. Thats the whole point of reviews, you read, you may base it to make a purchase, you may read to learn about the tech its using, but to complain because there were no benchmarks to show the 5870 winning is quite honestly laughable.
LMAO, Johnny, hows the night classes going?
So your telling me you can review a graphics card (that's of use to a consumer) by benchmarking just one game that's known to heavily favour one architecture over another???
Why don't you look around, most other 'quality' reviews at least use a handful (if not more) of games to base any form of opinion.

Are you just purposely trying to miss the point and wind people up, or is YOUR logic honestly that laughable.

If your genuine then I think you need to re-evaluate what makes a good or bad review or seek guidance from someone who can help you, there are plenty of resources out there that can point you in the right direction.

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by rhys216 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:00 am

@Apoptosis
I don't think there is any question that you don't know how to do a good review.
I personally think your review is all that is needed as it's rather comprehensive and of good quality, with a fair conclusion.

I think that's all we can ask of a review...

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Re: Zotac GeForce GTX 470 Video Card Review

Post by Apoptosis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:02 am

yup... I'm going to lock this thread as all that can be said has been, the card is no longer in our possession and the author has quit.
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