random thought this morning

-mogwai · Post by **-mogwai** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:16 am

as i was driving back home from studying some microbiology at uncle bill's diner on manchester road in ballwin, mo (excellent diner... definitely check it out if you're ever around that area... it's west on manchester off of 141), i passed a whole bunch of cop cars.

i started thinking about cops and the kinda crap they go through day in and day out... pain-in-the-ass drivers, crooks, domestic disputes, prank calls, name-calling, etc. it made me re-realize that cops REALLY don't get paid enough. same thing goes with firefighters. they put their lives on the line to save people from harm everyday at home. the median pay for a police officer is just over $45,000/year. does this seem very fair to you?

are there bad cops out there? of course. the same goes for every profession (same with chiropractors, same with lawyers, same with teachers, same with surgeons, same with united states presidents). it's just obvious, to me, that the reason why cops get so much crap from minorities is because of the history cops have for abusing their badge and getting off scott free in a court of law.

i feel that this is linked to certain officers who just weren't cut out for being cops. i attribute this to lack of effective training, examination, and pay (they just get worn down on the fact that there is a considerable disparity between the risk factor of their job (typically, inner city cops) and their salary, so they just take it out on people). however, i think this could be alleviated simply by increasing the number of police officers in areas where risk:salary ratios are high. increasing the pay could bring more people out of the woodwork to make the move towards being a cop in those areas.

the effect, i believe, would be a precipitous decline in crime rates. there's an indirect correlation between the number of cops in a city and the crime rate. unfortunately, there's also a direct correlation between high salaries and/or low salaries and corruption; corruption is definitely counter-productive.

anyways, the point is that cops, firefighters, and other respectable professions that DIRECTLY keep civilians safe don't get enough credit or pay. it just isn't right... and i wish there was something that could be done in society/politics to pay less to celebrities (as if the frigging earn it) and more to first responders.

T-Shirt · Post by **T-Shirt** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:51 am

I agree, except I don't believe they are underpayed (depends on local scale) but they certainly are under appreciated, and not always given the support and applause they deserve.
sure there are a few bad apples, as in any profession.
Go out a hug a cop today (better ask first, and no sneaking up behind them

)

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:29 am

yeah, you don't want to sneak up behind a cop and hug him, unless you want the baton AND the tazer, lol. Anyways, yeah, that is true. Cops who work in inner-city areas are most definitely more at risk. Drugs, automatic weapons, prostitution, yeah I would say that there's definitely more risk involved when you deal with that crowd. Hell, in some areas, a tactical SWAT is needed to bring down drug dealers in the inner-city. I know all of this too well because I live only a couple of blocks adjacent to the worst part of town in my area. I can hear gunfire almost nightly, and people used to knock on my door wanting money, and I knew damn well what they wanted it for, so I told them to leave because I had none (even if I had a couple hundred in my pocket). I know it's worse in some places than others, but it's just a little unnerving to hear gunshots at 3 in the morning that sound like they're right near your window, and then hear the cops 15 minutes after that.

Bigedmond · Post by **Bigedmond** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:10 pm

HAHA. Its not just those that protect us. I personnaly dotn think teachers get paid enough. THey have to deal with kids that dont want to be there. tehy dotn want to learn, yet they are the ones blamed when a kid fails because that kids either slept thru class, or ditched it.

Here in nevada. There are 2 repbulicans that are trying to pass measures that will cut public employees pay, and remove all retirement benifets. But those same republicans keep voting for themselfs to have better pay. heck, they have tried to removes the right for people that have been or are public employees from running for office. Break of their constitutional rights, but they dont care.

That only effects me cause my mom, a teacher for 35 years is getting ready to retire. shes diabetic, has 3 nations teaching awards, 2 presidental awards could lose her medical, and finacial benifets if she retires because these guys hate public empoyees. Sorry, my rants over.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:47 pm

Here in nevada. There are 2 repbulicans that are trying to pass measures that will cut public employees pay, and remove all retirement benifets. But those same republicans keep voting for themselfs to have better pay. heck, they have tried to removes the right for people that have been or are public employees from running for office. Break of their constitutional rights, but they dont care.

You can't just blame that one on the Republicans, the Dems are the same way..... actually all politicos are the same, they give themselves big fat raises, take kickbacks from special interest groups, and benefit from laws and measures they pass.
I need to find that link I saw awhile back. It laid out all the BS these guys pull, as well as alll their personal records....arrests for felonies, bad checks, etc......some of our elected officals are not even allowed to vote because they have been prosecuted for felonies.

Bigedmond · Post by **Bigedmond** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:03 pm

capper5016 wrote:
Here in nevada. There are 2 repbulicans that are trying to pass measures that will cut public employees pay, and remove all retirement benifets. But those same republicans keep voting for themselfs to have better pay. heck, they have tried to removes the right for people that have been or are public employees from running for office. Break of their constitutional rights, but they dont care.
You can't just blame that one on the Republicans, the Dems are the same way..... actually all politicos are the same, they give themselves big fat raises, take kickbacks from special interest groups, and benefit from laws and measures they pass.
I need to find that link I saw awhile back. It laid out all the BS these guys pull, as well as alll their personal records....arrests for felonies, bad checks, etc......some of our elected officals are not even allowed to vote because they have been prosecuted for felonies.

Seen that link Capper. I by no means am saying the democrates are clean.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:55 pm

capper5016 wrote:
Here in nevada. There are 2 repbulicans that are trying to pass measures that will cut public employees pay, and remove all retirement benifets. But those same republicans keep voting for themselfs to have better pay. heck, they have tried to removes the right for people that have been or are public employees from running for office. Break of their constitutional rights, but they dont care.
You can't just blame that one on the Republicans, the Dems are the same way..... actually all politicos are the same, they give themselves big fat raises, take kickbacks from special interest groups, and benefit from laws and measures they pass.
I need to find that link I saw awhile back. It laid out all the BS these guys pull, as well as alll their personal records....arrests for felonies, bad checks, etc......some of our elected officals are not even allowed to vote because they have been prosecuted for felonies.

The bad thing is that there's no distinction between the two parties anymore. They have both equally gone down the crapper. Tom DeLay, Karl Rove, Bush, Howard Dean, they're all equally to blame. I just pray those guys understand the meaning of "pre-emptive strike", because that's the only way the people these politicians swore to protect with policy are going to survive- well, that and if you have plenty of assault weapons and knowledge of making low and high-order explosives, which I have a little. We can't trust politicians for anything, period.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:56 pm

there is lots being done to help them, but not enough, i.e. charities. I am in the same boat as you, i am really close to my local pd, IN A GOOD WAY!!! I am part of a volunteer group that specifically helps out the police like, making food for the double shifters and helping out with traffic at special events. we also do fund rasiers to support the police. I am a huge radio buff and listen to them all day on the scanner. and i have also been through the training they go through and some of the mental training they go through. it is some extremely hard stuff they do. Yeah some of them do take advantage of thier "power" for example they do speed. I have done ride outs and seen them drive. and listening to the scanner i know they arent going to a call. and for them to pull you over for speeding seems unreasonable, but they do it for reasons. Mainly to check for warrants and outstanding fines and such.

I just hate it when people say "I HATE COPS!!!" I was once there a long time ago and thought they were mean and stuff. but once i went through some classes and did that training i see where they are comming from. For example the cops that pulls you over and seems like a dick may have just came from a call where he just witnessed an infant die right in front of his eyes. They never know what to expect next from someone who seems extremely nice. A video they showed us, shows a normal traffic stop and for 30 min on the stop the offender was extremely polite, and when the office asked if he could search his car a gun battle blew out and the officer was shot and killed.
One way you/people can help is to be nice and courteous and do what the hell the officer says. I have lots more to say but i dont want to bore you anymore.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:31 pm

Hell man, you're not boring us, I'm with you on this one. More support should be given to law enforcement all over, as well as other "governmental" workers like teachers for example. You know, when you take good protection for granted, that's when you've screwed up. I know I didn't take it for granted myself. I was pulled over by a local cop before, and yeah at first I thought he was being an asshole, but after hearing what he had to say, and hearing him say he'd help me (I don't have any sort of criminal record, just speed violations, lol), I thought differently of him, and that's what did it for me. He really did help me too, because I was doing like 20 mph over and didn't even know it because my old Suburban, as much as I love it, is a complete piece, and the speedo doesn't work; anyways, he lowered it from 4 points and 188 bucks to 2 points and $76. So yeah, I have a great deal of respect for them, and I don't like people crapping on our law enforcement like that.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:55 am

yeah my friend and i were racing

one time with our parents cars, little did we know right next to where they fill up with gas. we had to of been doing 70 or so in a 30. we came up to the light and here he comes, got us both. after pissing our pants with our first time being pulled over ever, he let us off with a verbal warning. We both were like "what the hell just happened!?!??!" lolol They can be cool. they are people too and have reasons. But yes under payed. Our dept is 13 officers down so they are having to pull lots of over time to keep enough officers on the street.

BTW random thoughts can be good. See........ LOL

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:45 pm

(sorry to double post, i didnt want to make a new thread)
Heres another random thought:

This is the best forum I have ever been on!!!! The last forum i use to be on, was run poorly and the people were extremely rude. They treated every new person like they are nothing more than something on the botton of thier shoes. So i cant thank you for the outmost warm welcome i have gotten here from everyone!!! On top of that the forum is part of a website that does freaking reviews. This is a geeks heaven!!! Nice people, reviews on everything, and... nice people!!! Thank you everyone!!!

edit// done without the color brown. LOL

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:57 pm

you damn straight it's a geek's heaven, lol. I've been looking for something like this for awhile myself, and after looking and giving up, I found this place just on a whim because I needed help building a unit. Now, here I am, 4 or so months later, and to use "the phrase": I'm "a part of the family", lol. Yeah, the Italian is always the dominant trait

Nobahar · Post by **Nobahar** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:02 am

Well in my personal experience with cops, I don't like the mentality that this is the law and you must abide it without questioning the validity of these laws.

I don't agree with the social contract idea of having to accept laws and societal norms because I was born in this society. I tend to choose what laws I endorse and what laws I reject.

I lump police in the same category as IRS, I think a private market would have a better handle of security and protection industry than a government-run business, that has irresponsible spending habits. Then again, that's idealistic.

Personally I rather sign a document that says I don't want police protection in any instance, forfeit my 911 rights, and stop paying fines and taxes associated with abiding those laws- as long as my breaking of laws doesn't directly conflict with someoene's safety.

Speeding doesn't always mean accidents, they base laws off statistical probabilities- like young drinking doesn't always mean drunk driving, but that's how they design laws, that's how police enforce them, and that's the premise of why I hate the police.

So it just correlates to, I hate the system- and the police are the enforcers of that system. If I choose to disobey for any reason, stop paying tax, they're the ones that first come to violate my 'natural rights' which involves forcably taking me to jail/court whatever.

2 cents.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:15 am

lol you make a very valid point and i can say i dont 100% believe everything as far as the law goes is perfect. I hate the fact that a robber can sue because he tripped on the way out of 7/11 and broke his ankle or something. Or a 10 year drug bust gets thrown out the window because how it was found was "against the law", but this is where the saying "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" comes into play. It's same reason they have instructions on ball point pens. Someone did it, it being anything, somehwere. LOL

Nobahar · Post by **Nobahar** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:11 am

And as far as paying them is concerned, I don't think they should be paid more. Whatever more they get paid comes out of all of our pockets forcibly as tax.

As I said, I'd prefer they moved it over to private industry- and offer people different security packages. And to keep it more realistic, they can have a mandatory flat annual fee for basic police service (not playing favoritism to any particular company)- required by law or whatnot, but at least that's progress-

Keep some government regulation, businesses compete over protection agencies. Not only do the police get paid more because of a business strategy, then that's one area of tax that we know what we're getting for with our money- and if dissatisfied we can change it.

Sounds like a pretty libertarian scheme, but I like knowing where my money is going. At least then maybe I can stop paying for this war, haha.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:32 am

Just as long as such a private sector organization doesn't violate human or Constitutional rights, that's fine, but there's something about that too: if it were a completely private sector organization, what would happen, if say, we fell on worse economic times than we're currently experiencing now, and that business folded? Where would our protection come from? Would they have to go back to the old way of law enforcement, or would the government give them a stipend to keep the business going, only to have it come out of our pockets? You must understand that this government is going to bleed us dry one way or another, whether you change how an organization gets its funds or not. Plus there's a matter of how they're going to get funding to keep the business going anyway- either way it comes out of our pockets, and it could cost more than what the government currently taxes us. Just something to think about.

Nobahar · Post by **Nobahar** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:01 pm

My goals are just to reduce the size of the government, one way of localizing control is to make it a private sector. I'm sure there alot of technicalities that need to be worked out about it, but likewise you can say what happens if telephone companies buckle and our telecommunications unsuspectedly dies.

It's actually more unlikely than you think, companies with such a large market (namely, everyone)- but you're right, it is a difficult thing to do- and I think things like this should be undertaken slowly, once step at a time- returning power to the people.

For example, there's no reason the post office has to be run by the government.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:17 pm

That's a given, because post offices are already interconnected very well and have enough technology to make a stake as a company, but then of course you get into a monopoly-like situation (not that it isn't like that anyways, but considering they already provide services similar to say Fed-Ex, UPS, and DHL it could be seen as such.....I think the government is just an implenting body of a regulatory scheme for this so it couldn't be seen as a business, but as a governmental function, sorta like with law enforcement in a way.