The holidays

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:21 pm

I know that this will probably end up upsetting some people, but its a discussion I want to have, and i want to know what each and everyone of you thinks..... remember to play nice.

Our country is based on Christian beliefs, I know we were founded by Puritains and the whole story behind it.....but we are a Christian country. I am not an overly religious person, i believe in everyones right to live as they wish....but this whole Christmas thing is really starting to piss me off.
Granted, christmas has gotten so commercialized that it really doesn't matter anymore, but why is the politically correct crowd suddenly attacking Christmas, and insisting everything should be "Happy Holidays"? By the same rationale, should we ban Quanza (sp), Hannukah (sp, again), and just make our society sterile, no beliefs, no religion, no rights? Why can't everyone celebrate their stuff freely?
Personally, this whole politcally correct thing is way out of control, I have no problem with anyone celebrating anything they wish, and they do so freely, but why is christmans so bad, why should we change it to happy holidays?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:58 pm

It's the same thing with taking God out of money, out of the Pledge, and off the grounds of courts everywhere: this country is becoming more secularized everyday and jaded to what this country was founded on. You were in the military capper, so surely you understand that this is one of the things we should be standing up for: our Founding Fathers' principles. You know me man, I am definitely not PC (politically correct), because that would show me to be a jaded person, and I am most certainly not one, that's for sure! I still believe in Christian principles, and I really don't care who sees me as being wrong for having such principles. It was my upbringing, and I uphold it, plain and simple, so you know man, I'm with you on this, 100%!

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:39 pm

Well...this is def. a personal opinion. I am not down with the PC bullcrap. If someone said Happy Kwanzaa to me I would not be offended at all. That would just tell me that is what they celebrate. Who cares what anyone believes or celebrates. As long as people treat others with respect and accept that all people are different and believe in different things whether that is spiritual, political, sexual, whatever.

I'm with you Capper!!

Jenn

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:51 pm

I don't want us to be a "Christmas and nothing else society".....I think the more days and cause for celebration and togetherness the better....I just don't understand why everyone wants to do away with christmas but if you try to do the same with other's holidays, you are a horrible person.
I am happy that people celebrate their beliefs...including Festivus.......but why do we have to do away with arguably the most important holiday in our country (okay maybe July 4th) and religion to appease the the ACLU and others?
maybe we should just ban all holidays and celebrate festivus (hope everyone understands the Seinfeld reference). Jenn, you bring up a great point, if someone said Happy Kwanza" to me, I would not be offended at all I would return the greeting and actually be honored that someone said something to me that didn't include profanity!
In the end, i guess my biggest complaint is that there is a vocal minority in this country which twists everything our country was based on to support their wants. from the Pledge of Allegience, to our National Anthem, to our Holidays, these people are destroying the very rights and beliefs they say they are trying to protect.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:00 pm

Oooooh, I'm gonna get flamed for what I am about to say, but I am going to say it anyways, sorry in advance to anyone/everyone.......

That minority you're talking about- the Michael Newdow's of this country- can be categorized pretty well in one section: extreme Left Liberals. They are the ones who like to try and dictate/legislate their tastes.....yet when someone comes up with an opposing and seemly legitimate point of view, they get massacred and crucified vocally. I have no problems with Conservative Democrats of this world- hell, we need more of them- but what I do have a problem with is the Liberals who want to neuter the military, take God out of the country, and sympathize on a level with terrorists. But getting back on point, it's good there's diversity in religious celebrations in this country. If someone said Happy Hanukkuh to me, I would wish them the same, just like you guys, but at the same time I wouldn't want that to be forced on me as the nationally-celebrated holiday. Christmas is a long-running tradition of this country, and it deserves its dues as such IMHO. like Ms. Jenn is saying, it's all a matter of opinion.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:48 pm

killswitch83 wrote:It's the same thing with taking God out of money, out of the Pledge, and off the grounds of courts everywhere: this country is becoming more secularized everyday and jaded to what this country was founded on. You were in the military capper, so surely you understand that this is one of the things we should be standing up for: our Founding Fathers' principles. You know me man, I am definitely not PC (politically correct), because that would show me to be a jaded person, and I am most certainly not one, that's for sure! I still believe in Christian principles, and I really don't care who sees me as being wrong for having such principles. It was my upbringing, and I uphold it, plain and simple, so you know man, I'm with you on this, 100%!

I'm not much for stirring up trouble having grown up in the Northwest, but I think a lot of the issues people had with the "God" in money, the pledge, etc had to do with the fact that they weren't originally there.

Some of the founding fathers may have been Christian, but they themselves even realized how much of the world's problems stemmed from religion, which is why they created the government without bias to any one faith. I would've thought it was more a stab at the founding fathers' ideals by adding religion to the government than by taking it out. Just my thoughts.

As for the whole "Happy Holidays" thing, I don't particularly care either way, I use it more often than "Merry Christmas", but that's just because Happy Holidays spans the entire season and isn't limited to just one day.

Edit: spelling

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:51 pm

I don't think anyone is being forced to accept or celebrate Christmas as their Holiday. I think perhaps what Capper is saying is...it seems like people who like to say Merry Christmas are felt to feel like we should say Happy Holidays as not to offend anyone. And like I said, if someone said Happy Kwanzaa or whatever I would not be offended. There is def. a lot of political correctness, especially in the work force. We can't hurt anyone's feelings. I thought we lived in America where we were able to express our opinions and thoughts. Not force them on someone...but just express them.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:58 pm

No one's being forced to do anything either way, it's just a sort of evolution of our society towards a more generic way of expressing things, and a slow trend towards being more polite through ambiguity. Seriously, some people do take offense, and I can understand the needs of businesses and news organizations looking for a way to express themselves to customers and viewers without any backlash.

Though, I don't really understand the point of doing so for Christmas. 99% of the country no longer even considers Christmas to be a religious holiday anymore, it's just gifts gifts gifts.

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:01 pm

Kerii...that is so true!! It is just all about presents. But at the same time, the company I work for does the PC thing but then they turn around and decorate with "Christmas" decorations. So, I think there is a lot of contradictory.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:27 pm

Like I said, I'm not "PC", lol, but I'm like you Jenn and work for a PC organization whose employee make-up is predominantly foreign (specifically people from Laos, Russia, and India), and Americans are the minority, and this organization is a Tyco company......Pretty sure you've heard of em and their embezzlement scheme that got Dennis Kozlowski, the CEO, 25 years in prison. This employment practice is still being exercised however, and they don't hire often at all. Didn't mean to ramble, just making it clear I don't work in an environment conducive to my personality. And really, I didn't mean that the celebration of Christmas is being forced on us or anyone else as they tend to celebrate in accordance to their religious beliefs, just that I don't like the fact that such celebrations, at least in some cultures like our own, is becoming very commercialized and secularized, and it reeks of profit. I'm not going to be able to afford Christmas gifts for my parents or anyone else this year due to things beyond my control, but it's a mutual understanding as they are broke too, and also primarily because we understand it is a celebration of Christ's birth, not a commercialized scheme to make the rich richer (though it has coming to this eventuality for several decades now). Personally, this society has become too materialistic IMO, thinking they are dependent on things that people used to not be dependent on even a few years ago....I dunno, I'm just weary and worn by this society and how this world acts.....

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:04 am

I know this will come as a shock to some but this whole "lets ban Christmas, we should say happy holiday" thing is stupid. I dont care who started it, if the founding fathers were christians or not. Hell if you want to call the day "Brown Happy Poo Fest" have at it. I just wish that folks on both sides of the isles would stop trying to legislate morality. Yes that applies the the flameing liberals and the bible thumping conservitives.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:10 am

man, I'm a right-leaning moderate, so I pick and choose dependent on platform. the whole issue centers around the secularization of this society, and doing something like this furthers that, just like how Virgin likes to call it Chrismahanuquanzakah, bunch of horses**t IMO.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:23 am

Brown Happy Poo Fest

There we go, an official Legit holday.......we need to pick a date and celebrate this....

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:12 am

OK, here is my 2cents. I hear some of you who happened to be christians saying that you aren't/wouldn't be offended if someone else (with other religion) would say happy hannukah or else to you. the problem I think is that other religions (I will say it: muslim and jewish) aren't that forgiving and tolerant at all. as a matter of fact they would really like to see this and all the other countries to change their religion to their's. when they become majority, in a country they will change the country's religion (see pakistan, malaysia etc.). before becoming majority in numbers, all they can do is complain about anything that refers to the other religion and count on your political correctness. well, I say to hell with political correctness. I hate politics anyway. for me politics=lying.

EDIT: one more thing: when people migrate to another country, they should be required to adopt to that country, instead of trying to change the politics and religion to their own liking.

bigblockmatt · Post by **bigblockmatt** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:19 am

The one thing that gets me about how, for lack of better term, movement on saying "happy holidays" rather than marry christmas is that when you look at the roots of the words, they come from the same thing. Holiday comes from Holyday. so, in essence, people are just saying happy holyday which refers to christmas!!

There is a funny talk show host named Glenn Beck. they show made a song called Happy RamaHanuKwanzMas. its pretty funny. you can get a shirt with a "PC" santa on it aswell. https://members.premiereinteractive.com ... 0_2487.htm#

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:26 am

well, then why leave out the buddhist and all the other religions from the name - just because they aren't so agressively pushing their agenda?
that would make a hel of a long mutant fraze LOL.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:31 am

sbohdan wrote:OK, here is my 2cents. I hear some of you who happened to be christians saying that you aren't/wouldn't be offended if someone else (with other religion) would say happy hannukah or else to you. the problem I think is that other religions (I will say it: muslim and jewish) aren't that forgiving and tolerant at all. as a matter of fact they would really like to see this and all the other countries to change their religion to their's. when they become majority, in a country they will change the country's religion (see pakistan, malaysia etc.). before becoming majority in numbers, all they can do is complain about anything that refers to the other religion and count on your political correctness. well, I say to hell with political correctness. I hate politics anyway. for me politics=lying.

EDIT: one more thing: when people migrate to another country, they should be required to adopt to that country, instead of trying to change the politics and religion to their own liking.

I see where you are coming from and agree, in a way. I respect every persons opinion, whether I like it or not, I respect it. I understand our country was a melting pot for ages, but now a vocal minority is trying to tell us how to live our lives. Its like having someone stay at your house, and them taking control of the remote and dictating what you watch...I wish everyone could just get along, and celebrate as they wish, but i definitely agree that its BS for other to come to our country, and try to dictate policy.
Christmas is Christmas, I may be older than anyone here, and I was never a religious sort, but its a day for family to get together, forget all the bad things in life and enjoy love and hapiness......I could care less about the commercialization of the day, presents are all good and fine, but there is a lot more to the day.... and I don't think anyone has the right to dictate who celebrates it or how.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:36 am

sbohdan wrote:EDIT: one more thing: when people migrate to another country, they should be required to adopt to that country, instead of trying to change the politics and religion to their own liking.

Should we be living in teepees and wearing buffalo skins and feathered headbands then?

Awonawilona bless America!

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:43 am

I couldn't put it better then this capper. I totally agree. of course some may screem out in horror and call you a fascist, discriminating pig just for expressing your opinion which actually covers the truth. I've seen it too many times. I also think these problems will escalate with time and get worse. much worse. we can wish for everyone to just get along but unfortunatelly not everyone shares this wish.

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:53 am

My only coment to Rich, is just remember that there are vocal minorities on both sides trying to push agends. While i dont always like the "liberal" agenda i do think that a open PC attitude is better than the more conservitive christain agenda. I guess i just feel that the conservitive christain agenda is more apt to offend more people and cause more tension then the liberal one. But that is not in all cases thats for sure.

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The holidays

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The holidays