Legit Reviews

Ok, I have to rant!!!! I would still buy another Saturn though

Our vue has the check engine light on because of a thermostat. Now anyone who knows a little about cars knows that you could pull 2 bolts off where the upper radiator hose meets the engine, remove the gasket and thermostat, then replace everything and you are done. Not with the nifty 2003 Saturn vue!!! you have to remove the upper intake manifold just to get to the damn thing! PLUS the thermostat on a car usually runs about $5 max, well this one is $25 for the thermostat, then between $60 and $85 for the housing for the thermostat! More good news, you have to replace the gasket(s) on the upper intake manifold because of taking it apart. Well they have 3 styles and there is no way to know which style you have until you rip it apart. These gaskets cost $40, $80, or $160 depending on what gasket you need. Of course you have to drain the entire cooling system to do this, plus replace the gaskets at the thermostat, etc. Replacing a frickin thermostat can cost close to $800!!!! Of course while you have the upper intake of, you might as well replace the $10 a piece spark plugs, because if you dont, you would have to pay the labor to remove the manifold again and replace the gaskets, when you wanted to replace the spark plugs! Also need to check the coil packs while you are in there, since a simple crack in the ceramic boot and you will have to replace it. What, a boot cant cost that much, you say. Well, you can not buy the boots, you have to replace the whole coil pack for each cylinder that is cracked at a cost of $100-$150 a piece.

THIS IS LUDICROUS!!! All of the moronic engineers/designers who thought of this should be lined up and shot! No, skip that, they should be shot in each kneecap, then each elbow, then the shoulders, until they bleed out while saying they are sorry to the millions of people that will get sticker shock when they try and replace a simple thermostat!

Mike

Oh and the thermostat probably isnt even bad enough to replace, it just doesnt reach the 198 degree threshold fast enough for the computer during the winter, so it flags the code and sends the check engine light on, which will go away when it gets warmer outside. Of course in Pennsylvania we have the dumbest emissions laws, where ANY code on the car will FAIL the emissions, even if it has NOTHING to do with the damn emissions itself!

I guess placing the thermostat and plugs into a hard to get area has increased gas mileage by .8mpg and maybe given me 2 extra hp, so it was all worth it

they can't figure out what gasket you have from the engine block code or VIN number of the car? Sounds like you might need to call another dealer.

Does your car have the 2.2L 134cid L4 or 3.0L 3000cc 181cid V6 engine?

Also why can't you re-use the housing? Unless the housing is cracked or failing it shouldn't need to be replaced.

Being a design engineer for over 20 years, this comes as no surprise.

Ever since the Pontiac Fiero days when you couldn't even squeeze your hand in place to get to the engine parts, GM has time and time again made things that require dealer attention. In the long run, vehicles can be sold cheap to the consumer off of the lot, BUT, they will make up the cost one way or the other through service and service parts.

Years ago, Delphi made those thermostats for your Vue, today that business was sold to someone else who makes the same part and sells it for much much more. Hence, the $25 for the part.

Knowing the history of the Vue in engineering, the cost targets set for it and the profits GM makes from it, it's a vehicle to avoid when the market was running good.

Just be happy you didn't buy the Vue Hybrid. That massive re-call nearly totaled GM as a company to get their image fixed.

If you have not yet joined a Saturn vehicle forum, here's a few to dig into ...
http://www.saturnforum.com
http://www.saturnspot.com
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums (the biggest)

Placement of parts always seems to be "where they can fit it in" assuming that you will never have to take it out again.

My past 2 hondas have had their oil filter directly above the muffler, so when you change the oil and take the filter off it dumps oil onto the muffler, which then burns the next time you drive the car.

Apoptosis wrote:they can't figure out what gasket you have from the engine block code or VIN number of the car? Sounds like you might need to call another dealer.

Does your car have the 2.2L 134cid L4 or 3.0L 3000cc 181cid V6 engine?

Also why can't you re-use the housing? Unless the housing is cracked or failing it shouldn't need to be replaced.

My mechanic called both Saturn dealerships in the area, gave VIN #, and both said the same thing - you cant tell which gasket it is till you pull off the upper intake. I have the 3.0 engine.

the housing can be reused, but they redesigned it (from what I have read online) due to problems (hence all the damn vues needing thermostat replacements within a couple years of buying them) so I figured while we are spending $100 we might as well throw in the extra $60 or $80 for the housing also.

stev wrote:Being a design engineer for over 20 years, this comes as no surprise.

Ever since the Pontiac Fiero days when you couldn't even squeeze your hand in place to get to the engine parts, GM has time and time again made things that require dealer attention. In the long run, vehicles can be sold cheap to the consumer off of the lot, BUT, they will make up the cost one way or the other through service and service parts.

I had a Fiero my friend and I were going to throw in a 400sb, but someone ran me over before that happened.

Mike

Still is a bunch of BS! I am going to be looking VERY hard at the engine when we go to buy another new car and if none from the US manufacturers can give me the ability to service it myself for small repairs, then I will just look into foreign cars (hate to do it). My mechanic told me to buy anything with a Honda engine in it - he said they are the best ones around right now, although I still think VW/BMW make the best.

My sister has a Vue, dont think she has had an issue like yours though. Can't remember what year hers is either, I know that shes had it for a 2-3 years at least.

Sad side, there are rumors in GM say they are thinking very hard about shutting down the Saturn line all together in their plan to the government for the bail out. Pontiac, Saab, and Hummer were left in the cold too. GM is looking to focus on the core brands... Chevy, Caddys, Buick, and GMC.

Bummer too, Vue is basically the same thing as a Pontiac Torrent or a GMC Acadia or a Chevy Equinox... just easier on the wallet.

I just checked Rock Auto and the 3rd design housing is $32.79, the thermostat is $11.49 for the STANT Part # 48759 {Original Equipment Type Thermostat Valve Motor & Spring Assembly - 198º Original Equipment Temperature and lastly the FEL-PRO Part # 35668 gasket for the housing is $1.63... That adds up to $45.91 in parts plus shipping...

See if you can find a local shop to do this work for you as it looks like you'll save a ton of money.

The entire FEL-PRO Part # MS96538 intake gasket set is $29.79, so all said and done you are at $75.70.

The ACDELCO ignition packs get expensive at $86 each though, so $172 to replace those...

Spark Plugs... NGK Part # 7090 More Info {GP-Series Platinum Plug #BKR5EGP} are $2.65 each.

Apoptosis wrote:I just checked Rock Auto and the 3rd design housing is $32.79, the thermostat is $11.49 for the STANT Part # 48759 {Original Equipment Type Thermostat Valve Motor & Spring Assembly - 198º Original Equipment Temperature and lastly the FEL-PRO Part # 35668 gasket for the housing is $1.63... That adds up to $45.91 in parts plus shipping...

See if you can find a local shop to do this work for you as it looks like you'll save a ton of money.

The entire FEL-PRO Part # MS96538 intake gasket set is $29.79, so all said and done you are at $75.70.

The ACDELCO ignition packs get expensive at $86 each though, so $172 to replace those...

Spark Plugs... NGK Part # 7090 More Info {GP-Series Platinum Plug #BKR5EGP} are $2.65 each.

HOLY CRAP!!

I called autozone and advanced auto parts, but neither had all of the parts in stock and neither had the redesigned thermostat. Even locally my spark plugs for the OEM variety are $7.65 each from the parts store and $9.98 from saturn! The gasket they dont even know about 3 designs, they just have 1..??

If I were doing the repair myself, I would definitely look for more parts stores for the parts I need, but at the shop, he will guarantee the repairs not to fail as long as he uses the saturn parts. He will fix anything that fails within the parts warranty for free, but not with parts from anywhere else.

If we had another car (no use for me to have one with my neck, I am not supposed to drive anyway) I would try and do it myself. It sucks being at the mercy of garages!

Mike

I figure if I save $200 in parts now, I might end up paying 3 times that if something goes wrong, so I might as well bite the bullet now

What is Rock Auto? We dont have one of those here.

Damn new cars! I want a car I can actually work on again! Anyone have a 1978 Trans Am for sale?

http://www.rockauto.com

It's an online parts store... When I restored my 1969 firebird and even work on my Jeep Wrangler it's the place I go to when I'm not in a rush... no taxes also saves you big when dealing with $200+ orders... They are a great store and carry all the brands you see at Auto Zone/Advanced Auto Parts.

As for saving money to bite the bullet later... The parts these guys sell are ACDelco and other name brands that you should trust. Remember that ACDelco is the global independent aftermarket parts business and a brand of GM Service & Parts Operations... You are basically buying factory parts with ACDelco. So, if you want to use GM only parts you can... ACDELCO Part # 131134 is the thermostat - $13.68, ACDELCO Part # 1510580 is the thermostat housing, The housing/intake gaskets are FelPro, but that is a name brand part and what I used on all my race engines, The ACDELCO Part # D588 and ACDELCO Part # D587 ignition coils for $87. The ACDELCO Part # 24425327 spark plugs are an expensive $7.29, but they will round up your fix... It's all ACDelco, which is GM... you really aren't cutting corners.

I've been re-building engines, transmissions, transfer cases, rear ends and painting cars since I was 10, so it's my other hobby ;)

I am going to have to talk to my mechanic again and see if we can work something out!

Thanx for all the trouble and work Apop!!!!!!!!

Mike

I will update after talking to him next week!

The GM plant my father-in-law worked at was shut down as they were preparing to switch over to another line. They couldn't figure out how to get the wiper assembly in the new vehicle. The tried one way, then another, and another... After hours they finally figured it out. It's about a 20 step process. I've never been a GM fan myself, but working on them has led me to some of the most difficult situations. That being said, I really think perceptions are very distorted. Toyota can have more recalls then vehicles produced, yet still are considered by many to be vastly superior products.

moon111 wrote:The GM plant my father-in-law worked at was shut down as they were preparing to switch over to another line. They couldn't figure out how to get the wiper assembly in the new vehicle. The tried one way, then another, and another... After hours they finally figured it out. It's about a 20 step process. I've never been a GM fan myself, but working on them has led me to some of the most difficult situations. That being said, I really think perceptions are very distorted. Toyota can have more recalls then vehicles produced, yet still are considered by many to be vastly superior products.

That is because they actually RECALL them and FIX them ;) GM KNOWS about the thermostat problems, but basically shoots everyone the finger about it because it is such a pain in the ass to fix, they dont want to lose the money.



Mike

Yes I am still pissed about this crap design