Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protesters

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by vbironchef » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:40 pm

bubba your cool! :) Absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. I agree with you 100% about reading a contract or loan, or mortgage . I think I said that in a previous post.

Edit: Maybe I should explain myself why I also agree with hark. When you graduate a ex-student has to start paying back their loan. If you go on to a different college to further your education, you still have to pay off the first college. When I was in college interest rates were much higher something like 12%. Home loans were I think 15-18% back in the early 1990's. Not an excuse, more of a fact. I too had to work two jobs and the funny thing is that the more I made the less I had in my wallet. More money went to taxes and I got killed when I had to file my tax return. I felt the more I worked the less I got paid. Bottom line is: if you can't afford it, don't buy it. Are you listening United States of America! Just look what's going on in Europe. A complete FAIL! Never promise something you can't deliver.

Edit: What I would like to see is that the Federal Government stops raising tuition assistance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the more the assistance the government gives towards education more of the colleges raise their tuition. It's like a catch 22. The student is on the hook for more fees. While the college is building bigger and better football stadiums. What a joke!
Last edited by vbironchef on Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by bubba » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:23 pm

Think my student loan started at little over 8%, but refy'd to 4.5% somewhere round 2002-3....

Last summer I had to buy a car because the one I had was totaled. Couldn't find one worth buying paying pure cash, so caved and got a car off a lot, which requires a loan in most cases.

So I find a care I like and can afford. Go to do the papers and the dealer comes back with the loan "he we got you financed, but with your lack of revolving credit (credit cards, well lack there of, I don't have any) you have a mildly high interest rate." I asked what number is mildly high. He comes back with 23.5% I about fell out of my chair. It was not no, it was HELL NO. The guy didn't bat an eye and showed me papers of the lady before me that day drove off with 26.8% on a used car thats INSANE!

Asked them if could talk with my bank first. They were fine with it. 20 minutes later at my bank the loan guy says same thing about revolving credit, scared I asked whats the number. He comes back with 7.5%, yeah he was shocked when I smiled and said I'll take it, the lot wants 3 times that.

Its the people that are living WAY beyond what they can afford. I'm sorry, not everyone needs a house. Home yes, but home does not mean house. Seen more than one family get a 250-300k house (thats a lot of house in the midwest) lose it because the loan. And the only reason they got it was because the loan restrictions were loosened because a bunch of tools in congress figured there was too many people living in apartments, those people should have a house. Well, they didn't have a house for a reason. That reason was removed. and we got what we got.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by vbironchef » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:39 pm

I live and own a condo. 987 Sq. Ft. 2 bedroom 2 bath. I pay 325 a month in HOA fees. A lot better than renting the same size and condo for 1450 a month in the same complex.

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by hark » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:47 pm

bubba wrote:
hark wrote:That's the problem with your thinking, they're not taking YOUR money. If you enjoy busting your ass to barely make a living while millionaires and billionaires make more millions and billions off of you, then that's your prerogative. However, others imagine a world where everyone can make a decent living without killing themselves. You are essentially a slave, barely making a living, while your slave owner makes millions and billions off your back. If you're afraid of people taking your money, direct your fear towards the rich. As we are discussing this issue, the rich are shipping our jobs to foreign countries, then turning around and raising prices here. At the same time, they take advantage of dozens of loopholes to avoid paying their fair share of taxes on their enormous wealth.
I work not only for my day job as an IT guy, I write reviews, I help with family farm, and my step-dads gunsmith business learning the trade.

By raising taxes because I hit a magic number that some lazy SOB has decided is too much money for one person to have, then yeah, they are taking my money that intern would be used to get me and my family stuff.

So lets say i build up my gun shop, I employ people, I work my tail off as well as those who work for me. I get to where my cut clears the magic $500k/year mark (500K and up is the 1%). I'm supposed to just give that away.. blow me.

nothing is easy. if it was everyone would do it. want something fight for it. This nonsense that people are entitled to what ever because they are there. Nope. Don't think so.

Jobs are going to foreign countries for simple reasons. Its cheap. Why is it cheap, less regulations, more workers willing to work for less because there is more people than jobs. That's where more "slave" labor is, and if that is the case and you don't want to support that type of business, then don't buy anything with electronics in it.

As for people that are coming here illegally, well that's because they know there are jobs here. The jobs they are getting, labor. Something that requires a person to get up out of a chair and put a little effort into something. Some of those OWS people, set around bitching they cant find a job, apparently there are jobs to be had because if we didn't we wouldn't have an illegal migration issue that we have.
Tax is not (and should not be) that simple. When raising taxes, they can do so with conditions. The money you earn does not come from thin air, it comes from the community. The community gives you more support and so you should give more back to the community. Small businesses should be treated separately from big businesses. If you build up a gun shop, you should receive generous tax breaks. If your gun shop turns into an empire that outsources the work and dodges taxes, it should not receive tax cuts and there are loopholes that need to be closed. While my usage of the world "slave" is somewhat of a hyperbole, you're only kidding yourself if you think corporations aren't actively working towards cutting your wage. If they had it their way, they'd remove minimum wage. Complain all you want about those supposed "lazy bums" who refuse to work for minimum wage after spending dozens of thousands of dollars on an education and studying their way to a degree, but that pales in comparison to the fat cats who actively try to reduce your quality of life.

bubba wrote:
hark wrote:Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with working hard. These students are working hard, but they're saddled with debt. These loans are specifically designed to extort as much money as possible. They're trapped. Now what you're doing is helping out the slave owners and whipping these disadvantaged people, telling them to work even harder. Although you may not be consciously protecting the rich, you're definitely diverting attention away from their wrongdoings by focusing so much on people fighting for a better life.
So, I'm working hard, and have two years left on my student loan (finished in '97). Who said they have to work in the field they went to school for? I went for engineering, haven't done that for almost 5 years now. I have worked everything from floor sweeper to assembly line to machinist to IT guy. I have never taken a dime from unemployment or state aid. Why? If I can't afford it, I don't buy it, and yes I know what its like to broke and struggle.

How are the loans designed to extort money? They are better than most credit cards and home loans, they have a fixed rate. If they signed up for a non-fixed private loan, that's their fault. Should have got a job and went to community college or technical school and learned a skilled trade and done that for a couple years first. No one put a gun to their head and "go to college or die". I have several friends that have NEVER stepped one foot in a college. Make a rather nice living in a building trades, as machinists, and mechanics. Some run their own business and have people work for them. yeah they work hard for what they have, but they do it doing stuff that I bet any of those OWS tools would "oh I can't do that"
Do you know why there is a drive to get a degree in the first place? Jobs in the trades were running thin and demand was reducing. So if we follow your advice and everyone rushes to get enter a skilled trade, then the demand dries up again. If the trades were so lucrative, stable, and offered a decent living, then why would people spend the 4+ years studying at an expensive university? As for loans, if they didn't make money, they wouldn't offer you a loan. That's the whole point of a loan. Some loaners take this to greater extremes than others, but the fact is that loans are meant to make money. I don't understand why you assume OWS protesters are lazy bums, yet they would go through the trouble of 4+ years of schooling and camp outside in the cold earning no money and with no guarantee of change. Getting a job would actually be easier.

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by Skippman » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:22 pm

hark wrote: Do you know why there is a drive to get a degree in the first place? Jobs in the trades were running thin and demand was reducing. So if we follow your advice and everyone rushes to get enter a skilled trade, then the demand dries up again. If the trades were so lucrative, stable, and offered a decent living, then why would people spend the 4+ years studying at an expensive university? As for loans, if they didn't make money, they wouldn't offer you a loan. That's the whole point of a loan. Some loaners take this to greater extremes than others, but the fact is that loans are meant to make money. I don't understand why you assume OWS protesters are lazy bums, yet they would go through the trouble of 4+ years of schooling and camp outside in the cold earning no money and with no guarantee of change. Getting a job would actually be easier.

This is going to be my last post on the subject as you've obviously made up your mind on what you believe, and I had on what I believe. You make another broad based statement about college degrees. Look at what degrees are offered in and tell me that the bulk of them are in anything but either extremely specialized jobs or nonsensical skills like Feminist and African studies. As a current college student I wish I could say there were more practical degrees.

This **** all got started back in the 1980's with the MBA degrees. People didn't want to work for a living anymore. Blue Collar people were embarrassed of their jobs or flat out didn't want their kids to work as hard as they did. So they pushed them to get a college degree because that's what "the boss" had. Pretty soon there's a glut in degree's making them effectively worthless as anything but a litmus test for HR managers when screening perspective employees. "Does he have a degree? No? Round file." Why should they pay some old timer with a college degree X when they can hire some young buck fresh out of school for Y? It's supply and demand. A COLLEGE DEGREE DOES NOT GAURNETEE YOU A JOB NOR SHOULD IT.

The problem is people think "I worked hard for this degree! Someone should reward me for my work!" The fact of the matter is no one owes you anything. Practical skills like plumbing, electricity, carpentry, and mechanics will always be in demand. You CAN'T outsource those jobs? What, is someone in the Philippians going to fix your car over the phone? Someone in India going to fix your toilet when it's leaking? These are skills that USED to be common to any home owner but are now as esoteric as knowing how to build a bridge apparently. If it wasn't, my dad wouldn't be spending his retirement years doing these odd jobs for little old ladies for $20+ an hour.

If I ever get fired here before I finish my degree I'll likely go to work full time for my dad laying ceramic tile, remodeling bathrooms, and doing other skilled physical labor jobs. Like Bubba said, if those jobs weren’t here and there wasn't a vacuum in our labor pool the illegal’s wouldn't be coming here in the droves they are. I want to hate them for being... well, invaders. My dad earned his citizenship when he came over from Germany, shouldn't these people? But all I can do is sigh and look at them and say "hell, at least they work".

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by vbironchef » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:53 pm

I think we, the people that made posts to this thread are the epitome of what's going on for the occupy wall street protester or anywhere else is the country. Frustrated! :lol:

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone! =D>

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by hark » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:44 am

Skippman wrote:
hark wrote: Do you know why there is a drive to get a degree in the first place? Jobs in the trades were running thin and demand was reducing. So if we follow your advice and everyone rushes to get enter a skilled trade, then the demand dries up again. If the trades were so lucrative, stable, and offered a decent living, then why would people spend the 4+ years studying at an expensive university? As for loans, if they didn't make money, they wouldn't offer you a loan. That's the whole point of a loan. Some loaners take this to greater extremes than others, but the fact is that loans are meant to make money. I don't understand why you assume OWS protesters are lazy bums, yet they would go through the trouble of 4+ years of schooling and camp outside in the cold earning no money and with no guarantee of change. Getting a job would actually be easier.

This is going to be my last post on the subject as you've obviously made up your mind on what you believe, and I had on what I believe. You make another broad based statement about college degrees. Look at what degrees are offered in and tell me that the bulk of them are in anything but either extremely specialized jobs or nonsensical skills like Feminist and African studies. As a current college student I wish I could say there were more practical degrees.

This **** all got started back in the 1980's with the MBA degrees. People didn't want to work for a living anymore. Blue Collar people were embarrassed of their jobs or flat out didn't want their kids to work as hard as they did. So they pushed them to get a college degree because that's what "the boss" had. Pretty soon there's a glut in degree's making them effectively worthless as anything but a litmus test for HR managers when screening perspective employees. "Does he have a degree? No? Round file." Why should they pay some old timer with a college degree X when they can hire some young buck fresh out of school for Y? It's supply and demand. A COLLEGE DEGREE DOES NOT GAURNETEE YOU A JOB NOR SHOULD IT.

The problem is people think "I worked hard for this degree! Someone should reward me for my work!" The fact of the matter is no one owes you anything. Practical skills like plumbing, electricity, carpentry, and mechanics will always be in demand. You CAN'T outsource those jobs? What, is someone in the Philippians going to fix your car over the phone? Someone in India going to fix your toilet when it's leaking? These are skills that USED to be common to any home owner but are now as esoteric as knowing how to build a bridge apparently. If it wasn't, my dad wouldn't be spending his retirement years doing these odd jobs for little old ladies for $20+ an hour.

If I ever get fired here before I finish my degree I'll likely go to work full time for my dad laying ceramic tile, remodeling bathrooms, and doing other skilled physical labor jobs. Like Bubba said, if those jobs weren’t here and there wasn't a vacuum in our labor pool the illegal’s wouldn't be coming here in the droves they are. I want to hate them for being... well, invaders. My dad earned his citizenship when he came over from Germany, shouldn't these people? But all I can do is sigh and look at them and say "hell, at least they work".
Not everyone pursuing a degree is pursuing "Feminist and African studies", in fact most aren't. The problem is that you're assuming a degree takes no work and leads to effortless work. Just because it's not physical labour, does not mean it's not hard work. Again, if everyone went for skilled trades, wages in those areas will go down. As you said, supply and demand. You're making the incorrect assumption that skilled trades are a limitless field and that by doing manual labour, you're guaranteed a decent living. Although skilled trades cannot be outsourced, they can be given to illegal immigrants, as you said. Employers don't care if you're willing to work your ass off for minimum wage when they could pay someone else less than minimum wage to work his ass off. People are not pursuing degrees to avoid working, they're pursuing degrees in hopes of a decent living and stable work. Skilled labour takes far less training than a degree and employers can easily find a replacement for you if you demand decent pay.

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by eunoia » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:50 am

No one would talk much in society, if he knew how often he misunderstands others. - Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe (1749-1832)

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by bubba » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:44 am

Carolla's epic rant on OWS... headphones if at work, a little NSFW due to language

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by eunoia » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:34 pm

I'm willing to concede some correlation between hard work and success, but I think the reason we're nearing violent riots on this issue is the people who work full-time, take courses and do everything they're supposed to do can't manage to save up as much as their corporate-controlled governments had to borrow in their name again this year just to keep "capitalism" running. There's only 168 hours in a week, so including commuting time, it's pretty certain people can't work 4X harder than they are now. People worked just as hard in the Clinton era and you wouldn't have dreamed of the need for Cambodian-style re-education camps, becuse people felt they had a decent shot at getting somewhere.

As for loser trophies, it's a crap theory you'd expect from a comedian's political analysis. That's the culture the protesters are fighting. Pretty sick of programs like TARP that pump $700 billion into "nice try" trophies for millionaires.
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by hark » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:13 pm

bubba wrote:Carolla's epic rant on OWS... headphones if at work, a little NSFW due to language
The only thing "epic" about that video is how much of an "epic" hypocrite Adam Carolla is. The things you were complaining about apply to this guy. Read up his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_corolla). His mother was a "perpetually out-of-work welfare recipient with a degree in Chicano studies". Oh look, "hand-outs" to a person who studied a "useless" major in school. Adam Carolla would probably have starved to death without those hand-outs. Oh, but now that he is grown, has met the right people, and has made a lot of money, he opposes a "welfare state". Here is another juicy tidbit: "Although broke, Carolla and his friends and roommates owned a 1963 Cadillac limousine." Wow, this guy sounds so financially responsible! The fact that you promote this hypocrite is ridiculous and only makes you look bad. I suggest dropping your support of him.

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by bubba » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:31 am

Well, what he said in the rant I agree with.

I have always hated the participation trophy crap. Currently work with a couple of people that push this crap, if you suck, you suck. Don't candy coat it. They wont improve if they think they are good.

I have always hated people that say they "deserve" to have something just because someone else has it and they don't. Work, save, and get it yourself. Don't expect someone else to just give it to you.

I agree with his point that there is a VERY large amount of people in this country that don't pay taxes, hell some get more back than they put in due to stupid credits.

I have a massive issue with credit cards, if I had my way they wouldn't exist. Legal loan sharks. You can't buy it out of pocket, DON'T FRIGGEN BUY IT. Don't put it on a card at some insane 35%+ interest rate that will take forever and even more of your money to pay off. Yet there are people with 4 or more of the dam things maxed out and in the pursuit of getting something they "deserve" that someone else has instead of living within their means. Same cause for the housing bubble. Government come through and pushed relaxed loan restrictions, people got loans they should not have, it was inevitable.

The keeping up with the Jones crap has to stop.

So, he came from a poor family, but he worked, made money (a big ol pile of it) and now takes care of his family. No longer on welfare. My problem is the ones that refuse to get off there ass and get off welfare. I have a neighbor that has quit jobs due to getting a raise that would have reduced his welfare and food stamps. I myself have never taken them, nor will I ever. I also support the time limits and drug testing for any state benefits, its to help get you to the next job, not set on your ass.

As for Wiki saying he was "broke" hell I've been what I consider "broke" and owned a car, and the one he/they owned was between him and others. And I'm betting the almost 20yr old limo didn't cost them a whole lot. "broke" purely depends on your definition of it. I consider myself just above broke, as I have 2 paychecks worth of savings for "oh ****" moments. I have been broke where I flipped a coin to see what got paid and dug through the couch for change for gas to get to work on payday.

People bitching about how much college cost, well, you didn't have to a school that will set you back $60K a year so that at the end of the 4 years you're in the hole $240k and only making $30k a year at your first job. Could have gone to a tech school for less than $20k and come out with a cert in hand, or started at a community college for $5k a year. Plenty of people do that every day, work and went to a school that was within their means.



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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by eunoia » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:03 am

Gotta agree with what bubba is saying about credit cards, all those people who end up paying twice for things because they borrowed the money to buy them deserve to be poor. Even borrowing on a house is pretty stupid unless you got a good price and put enough down to have an equity cushion to occupy it while it (hopefully) appreciates. If regular people are in debt $500,000 for something that's now worth $75,000 because of their greed, one can only imagine the shenanigans going on on Wall Street.

Speculators are just gamblers, and I know gamblers to be easily the laziest people on the planet. Working means creating value, you can sit at a slot machine 100 hours a week but don't tell me how hard you work.
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by eunoia » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:50 pm

eunoia wrote:Gotta agree with what bubba is saying about credit cards, all those people who end up paying twice for things because they borrowed the money to buy them deserve to be poor.
And that goes double for nations. Faith-based economics is a sucker bet.
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by smack323 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:27 am

Ron Paul 2012...End the FED!!!
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by grajasekar » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:43 pm

eunoia wrote:Gotta agree with what bubba is saying about credit cards, all those people who end up paying twice for things because they borrowed the money to buy them deserve to be poor. Even borrowing on a house is pretty stupid unless you got a good price and put enough down to have an equity cushion to occupy it while it (hopefully) appreciates. If regular people are in debt $500,000 for something that's now worth $75,000 because of their greed, one can only imagine the shenanigans going on on Wall Street.

Speculators are just gamblers, and I know gamblers to be easily the laziest people on the planet. Working means creating value, you can sit at a slot machine 100 hours a week but don't tell me how hard you work.
The whole problem is people thinking a loan is something that you can take now and not have to worry about too much till later. Take a loan if you don't want to pay out all the money you have on hand but never take a loan to get something priced in multiples of the amount you'd be comfortable spending.

As for credit cards, for all those people who say that credit cards are easier to carry around than paper money, why not then use only DEBIT cards with the money you have in your bank account? ;)

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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by Cixiro » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:48 am

I've skimmed through a lot of the posts here and there is a huge misconception with OWS by far and large with what people are believing and what it is about.

OWS is not a fight against corporations or even the rich. It is about the separation of corporation and government. In 2008(?), it was ruled that corporations are people but are not subject to the same restrictions. In other words, corporations have unlimited "freedom of speech" and can donate infinite amounts of money. This is NOT equal representation. The money these corporations are donating is upwards of millions and has really caught the eye of every politician. The people who are donating this money from these corporations? Multi-million dollar investors and so on. These "rich" people are, in reality, circumventing the system and actually are obtaining more power than the average individual. This circumvention is a direct result of money in politics. Case and point: In Texas, I forget who but If you really want me to, I can find the name, someone had incorporated a business just so that they could give some four million to Rick Perry before liquidating the said business. The business never existed but lawyers are smart and can get around that in the paperwork. Thus, that rich individual was able to have thousands of times more power than any normal individual and it is a DIRECT result of the money they possess.

Money is power. That's the bottom line here. The whole movement is because normal people are not being heard anymore; it is the rich and powerful who are controlling everything. This control has not only ruined our democracy and made it more of a corpotocracy(sp?)/plutocracy, but also made a system in which the average individual is being removed and discarded like waste. Corporations are no longer loyal to their employees and these said corporations are more so just trying to raise their bottom line to line their own pockets. I can find you plenty of statistics and facts about the 1%, such as how they make, on a relative scale, ten times more than they would have in the 1950's while on a relative scale, people today make just as much as they did back then. In other words, the increase in money that has resulted from the 1950's has only been used to inflate the top 1% rather than us as a country.

It is not about "working hard." I work hard. I actually am in university right now doing cancer research as one job and as another, being a market analyst for one of the largest defense contractors. I make barely anything but the experience is paying off; although I am poor right now, I am looking at jobs that are 70-100k a year once I graduate in a year and a half. I will be part of the upper class, or at least have a good chance of being upper class, as soon as I graduate. However, I'm not stupid in realizing that with this money comes great responsibility. I realize that I need to put more of my own money into the system to help make my community better. The fact is that others don't share this view. I've talked to plenty of upper class millionaires who believe that because they "worked hard," that they deserve to keep all their money and should pay equal share. The fact is that it's not about whether they worked hard or not. It's a matter of general equality. You're in a world currently where money is being centrally located in a handful of individuals and are only keeping it; This doesn't stimulate the economy - it destroys it. The middle class is what the economy runs on and the problems you are seeing right now is a lack of money in the middle class simply because the upper class hoards it, more specifically, the top 1%. This is a blatant, greed-fostered problem caused by regulations affected by these "infinite" free-speech millionaires. This is their effect, not the middle class and not the lazy.

People took out student loans, mortages, and other investments simply because they were under the impression that they would be able to pay them back because, let's face it, we've all been there and some of us, including me, still are - we have the idea that this world isn't an economic warzone. But it is. People are realizing this and it's causing a disruption in many things. First off, you can't get a job if you don't go to college now. However, colleges are not subsidized enough and so college, which has always been expensive, has actually become more relatively expensive than it was in the past. This creates a kind of necessitated evil - you have to take the bullet in order to get to college and get that student loan, whether or not you get a job. It is not the students fault; it is the world we live in. There is not enough opportunity available for a person who doesn't have a college degree to live a fully functioning, happy life. The jobs that used to do that have been sent overseas for cheaper labor and the idea of "keep it in america" has long since passed. Personally, I am in a good position. I pay $15k a year because I am in-state, under multiple scholarships, and because of my jobs, have been able to actually not rack up any student debt - I am virtually 0$ in the hole and in my last year and a half of school. However, I'm not an idiot. This endeavor took my own blood, sweat, and tears. However, here's the little bit that hits home. My parents paid for half of my school. I am lucky with respect to that. Without them, I would be, in fact, $7.5k in debt. There are other, more qualified, harder working individuals who are doing worse in school because they are doing 40 hour shifts at the local fast food joint. It's an evil spiral; BECAUSE of my parents, I am able to focus more on school, get better grades, and get a better job. On the other hand, here is another guy who is smarter but has to work at a fast food joint every night resulting in lost sleep, worse grades, and therefore, worse job. It's unfair. There should be more opportunities for people like that and not people like me. The fact is that the system is made for only a select few and marketed nationally.

You can say you work hard all you want, but you're missing the point and it's ignorant to not see the influence money has in politics.
If you want a much more fluid, thoughtful, and realistic essay, I recommend you read this article:
http://spfaust.wordpress.com/2011/10/15 ... at-53-guy/
It is directed entirely at your stance of "I worked hard so I deserve it."

vbironchef
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by vbironchef » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:37 pm

I hate to break the bad news to you Cixiro, but 70-100k does not even come close to the upper class. :lol: You will graduate in a year and a half and unless you have connections then you will be right there with the rest of America. Over worked and under paid. Maybe in Texas that is good money, but in CA. that barely pays the rent or mortgage. If you don't have any contacts for a shoe in job after you graduate than plan on moving back in with your parents and plan on being under paid. Good Luck! Corporations know that they can pay whatever they want, and the working class just has to suck it up. Make a post in a couple of years when reality hits. Let's see if you don't change your tune. Making 80K is maybe middle class in CA. Are you talking about 70-100k before or after taxes? Big difference.

Edit: This was taken from MSN.com. http://money.msn.com/family-money/artic ... ab33df5cea Here is one's person to the feedback and I quote:

GoodFortunes


By some standards (this article, and Obama) I am considered financially rich. My wife and I are in our mid 30's (36 & 35). I make approximately $210K a year (IT) and my wife makes $90K a year (Lawyer). Together, we make $300-310K annually. We are very appreciative for what we receive and do not for one second take it for granted. This year we will be paying approximately $80k in federal income taxes. Because many in Congress, and those in the Occupy Movement feel that we aren't paying our "fair" share, I fully expect my tax rates to be going up.


I understand that our current income puts us in about the top 1.5% of all income earners, but I don't take it for granted. We spend, and live like we made 100k (up until this year my wife drove a 11yr old car because she didn't want to have a new car payment, and my house is worth about $175K. I'm willing to bet that there are many readers reading this that make less than me, but have a house worth more than mine.). Unfortunately, it appears that many don't follow similar life styles. My wife is a bankruptcy lawyer, so she deals with people daily who have hit the hardest of financial times, and one thing that is consistent is that people have a hard time managing their money, and understanding what is affordable. While many do fall on hard time (lost job, health problems), poor financial management is a big portion of her cases. It surprsing what a person making $35-40K a year things they can afford. $700 month BMW payment, $150 month cell phone bill, $10-15K in credit card debt. These cases are way to common. I watched a show on Discovery channel a couple of years ago that followed Lottery winners. In the show they displayed an alarming statistic. They said that 75% of all lottery winners in the US go broke after 5 years from their last lottery check. This is surprising, and embarrassing quite honestly.



Americans have to get better with financial management. Living comfortably just means living within your means, so a couple making $100K a year can actually have more financial freedom than a couple making $400K a year if they know how to manage their properly. End Quote:

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bubba
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by bubba » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:37 pm

When I was married and my ex was working we cleared 70k a year between us. Yeah.. middle of middle class at best, and that is here in the midwest.

I know what the OWS started out to do, but what it has morphed into is a bunch of whiners that want stuff handed to them. Several have been video saying that they would rather do this than try to change the system from the inside or through voting in people that would.

thus the "I want it, give it to me" attitude they all have. They all complain about corporations and big business but doing so holding high-end electronic like iPhones and laptops all made by those greedy little corporations they hate so bad.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-Thomas Jefferson

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eunoia
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Re: Interesting Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street protester

Post by eunoia » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:25 am

I know people on the right in the U.S. shudder at the notion of nationalization, so I won't go that far, but a good start to protesting Wall Street in practical terms would be finding a way to buy back the Federal Reserve System from the banks.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-2 ... ncome.html
No one would talk much in society, if he knew how often he misunderstands others. - Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe (1749-1832)

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