Invasion of Privacy?

Amy · Post by **Amy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:03 pm

I am curious about something, but I don't want this thread to turn into a debate. In light of the whole deal about Pres. Bush authorizing th government to listen in on our phone calls and look through our emails, I'm curious about how many of you feel about this.

My question is very specific: Do you feel it is okay for the government to eavesdrop on American citizens?

My question is NOT whether Bush went about it the correct way or what have you. I just want to know if it makes you uncomfortable knowing that the government might be listening to your phone calls or reading your emails.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it because I'm not a very private person and it just doesn't bother me. Please use this thread to voice your opinion, but not to debate what others have to say or how they feel. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this, so please try not to get this one locked.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:16 pm

i saiy heck no, i mean i have nothing to hide. Right now they are watching us so it doesnt really matter anyway. LOL I believe if something like this were to pass then it would become a common thing, people would get use to in a way and police would use it and then become something on the black market for normal people to get. One bad apple shouldnt have to spoil the whole bunch.

Zelig · Post by **Zelig** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:34 pm

I voted no. Living in Canada, btw.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:37 pm

I'd say no too.
I know i'm not American, but sometimes an outside view is better.
Also if your government invades your privacy....then eventually more and more countries will follow. It will become standard to have governments having this power.
Who knows how far they will take it, also if it becomes accepted, then eventually they will want to do something else, which evades your privacy. Then because we will have accepted the idea of "Unkle Sam" listening in, we will AGAIN say..."i've nothing to hide". How far will we let them go?

Unkle Sam
"Your country needs you" -> Couldn't be more true!

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:55 pm

absolutelly no! this is another step in turning the leading democracy into a police state. the communist regimes used to do this but at least they were not claiming to be democratic and free (even if they did no one had any doubts they aren't). one of americas most popular propaganda at the time was pointing out the invasion of privacy at every front and the luck of human rights (even now they have this against china). I think it's discusting to talk about the importance of human rights, freedom, and privacy of citizens and flame countries that don't apply these and then turn around and do the same. it's like "don't do as I do, just do as I say"

Post by **FZ1** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:09 pm

No, but they'll do it anyway.

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:48 pm

Sorry but im opposed, we are inoccent until proven guilty. The type of access you describe, which is not what they are working on getting, should not be alowd and is unconstitutional.

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:24 pm

infinitevalence wrote:Sorry but im opposed, we are inoccent until proven guilty. The type of access you describe, which is not what they are working on getting, should not be alowd and is unconstitutional.

don't be sorry. I'm slowly starting to believe the US government might have something to do with the 9/11 attacks (Bush family connections with saudi king's family, binladen family, knowing about the attacks reported by the FBI and doing nothing, not to mention that the US government created bin laden and trained his troops, organized the network etc.) because all they do is using 9/11 as an excuse to make all the unconstitucional laws like that and use the army in connection with any country that has anything to do with OIL (Kuwait, Irak - Afghanistan is neglected even though the alkaida is supposedly there but no OIL)
just my 2 cents...

Bio-Hazard · Post by **Bio-Hazard** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:18 pm

Makes no differance to me as they check my stuff out from time to time anyway as I had a top secret clearance for nearly 20 years while I was in the service............

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:38 pm

Bio-Hazard wrote:Makes no differance to me as they check my stuff out from time to time anyway as I had a top secret clearance for nearly 20 years while I was in the service............

What happens after it becomes the norm to have them checking everyone, and they still don't find any usefull info?
They will try to "amend" your basic rights even more.......and it will go on and on.........

People need to make it very clear... NO!
(a country should be governed by the people!)

Amy · Post by **Amy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:50 pm

kenc51 wrote:What happens after it becomes the norm to have them checking everyone, and they still don't find any usefull info?
They will try to "amend" your basic rights even more.......and it will go on and on.........

Well, I'm quoting from today's newspaper here (which is what got me wondering about this topic),

[Gen. Michael Hayden, deputy director for national intelligence] said: "This program has been successful in detecting and preventing attacks inside the United States. I can say unequivocally, all right, that we have got information through this program that would not otherwise have been available."

-- St. Louis Post Dispatch, December 20 page A9.

Whether what he says is true or not, I don't think the government is going to tell us about every attack that was thwarted by eavesdropping. I have to ask myself, "Is preventing the next terrorist attack worth the invasion of my privacy?" Personally, I think so, but I also see how it could get out of hand.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:08 pm

Yeah, it can get out of hand.... and it will...
What will happen is any terrorist etc. will stop using a phone etc. to communicate anything sensitive.....The govt will then get no info....they then want to change another basic right...... It will also set a precedent, and other countries will follow....ones which have no need to......could cause a "snowball effect". Tackling the prob @ the source is whats needed.....that's the mid-east views about the US. They see the govt. etc. they don't see you guys! Isreal is also another big prob. I don't want to hijack this thread, but your govt. is representing you....these people hate your country for a reason.....mayby the source of the prob is closer to home.....when is your next elections?

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:24 pm

I TOTALLY agree with you Ken

-mogwai · Post by **-mogwai** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:09 pm

absolutely not.

where's the check on power? merely taking an oath is no check.... the lamest excuse i've ever heard in my life.

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:16 pm

audiophile wrote:absolutely not.

where's the check on power? merely taking an oath is no check.... the lamest excuse i've ever heard in my life.

so true

Bigedmond · Post by **Bigedmond** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:43 pm

I say no.

Where does the wire taping stop?? If it was secert about international calls, im sure it would be a secert that state to state calls could be tapped, and we would never know.

Plus, they will never say who they listened in on, so whos to say someone somewhere didnt listen into a business meeting and get secert company information. The administration says to trust them, which to me means, there is an even bigger problem then the one we are seeing.

grunt · Post by **grunt** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:06 pm

Without a doubt they should. There shouldnt be anything stopping them from catching and killing every last piece of scum trying to pull some crap here. I would swap your "privacy" for those lives lost in N.Y. Basically if they have a lead they need to chase it, they shouldnt have to stand in line for a warrant to tap a damn phone. After the fact they should have to explain to some other authority as to why they did it. Also, they should only be allowed to pursue terrorist threats..

My 2 cents...

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:47 pm

Successful in preventing terrorist attacks?

What happened during all those pre-9/11 years when we didn't have the government spying on its citizens? Not a single organized terrorist attack if I recall, and the only big one (9/11) was discovered, and yet they just sat on their hands.

Less restrictions on intelligence gathering should be the least of their concerns.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:04 pm

good old Benjamin. still right - after all those years...

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:55 pm

Hell no I don't want the govt spying on me, who knows what I would be doing at that moment, rofl

but seriously, no I wouldn't because of the mere fact I've already heard about what could result from eavesdropping if you were to say the wrong thing: I was watching 60 Minutes the other night (Sunday night) and there was a piece on Rendition....I don't know if you all know what it is, but Rendition is where US Rendition Agents pretty much kidnap and displace you in another country usually, in one of their prisons.......they have planes that can land at any US airport without delay, special Boeing 737's that they use to kidnap the would-be assailant (unless they screw the list up, like in the case they were talking about with a German car salesman; they just plucked him up, put him in a foreign prison where he was tortured and such, and then let go to a remote location in Albania, for naught because the agents got the man's name wrong and thought it was this particular individual, who it wasn't) and carry out the actions just mentioned. Now, consider this: if you say something wrong on the phone, or the Net, or write something that could be seen as terrorist activity, don't you think this would happen to you? I mean really, it is an operational death sentence, and I think they shouldn't spy without just cause. Allowing spy activities on every US citizen strips us of our rights, plain and simple. Sorry about the rant, but it just isn't right (and FYI audiophile, I don't like Bush, just so you understand....I know you always referred to me as a "right-winger", but in this case I have to draw the line......I just hope we don't lose any more of our rights......); btw, I really think Rendition can occur against US citizens if it already has on foreign ones..........

pardon the rant

Legit Reviews

Invasion of Privacy?

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Invasion of Privacy?