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Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:05 am
by Illuminati
My '96 Olds Aurora also requires premium gas (I think the manual states 92 octane minimum). I'm just glad that Shell still has 93 octane... But now the gas prices in STL are ~$3.18 per gallon for 86/87 octane... so that means I'm paying $3.38 - $3.40 per gallon for 93 octane.

sux... but I'm just rollin' with the punches.

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:48 am
by mongol05
Today was the first time I've ever spent over $30 on one fill up (my car is small). I was sad.

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:56 pm
by T-Shirt
You'd be crying here the cheap stuff (87 octane~~maybe) is over $3.50, and 1 station I saw was $3.99 for premium (but had no line :roll: )

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:55 pm
by Tech_Greek
Here's the latest thing I've noticed, the price on the pump is wayyy different than the price on the signs.

ex... racetrack down the road had prem at 3.19 a gal (and a line to boot), well you go to actually put it in and on the pump and receipt it says 3.39...

Something seems fishy there, and this isn't the first place I noticed doing this, is that legal?

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:33 pm
by T-Shirt
No, I doubt that's legal (might be the cash price? or a discount for using their credit card, but it should be posted) but it depends on state law
here they have to change the sign first if going up, the pump first if going down.

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:34 pm
by T-Shirt
Well this can't be good for the west coast http://www.komotv.com/news/national/7628231.html

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:44 pm
by JohntechUPi
Probably a good excuse raising the price, but as I remember most of the crude oil coming from Alaska goes elsewhere. So I doubt it will make a real difference.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:55 am
by T-Shirt
JohntechUPi wrote:Probably a good excuse raising the price, but as I remember most of the crude oil coming from Alaska goes elsewhere. So I doubt it will make a real difference.
Virtually all the oil used in washington (at least western washington) state, comes from Alaska. How much we pay depends on demand around the Pacific rim.
Since production is already about 1/2 normal due to other pipeline problems, even a small additional loss hurts alot.
Today's state average is $3.42/gal, $1.03 above last year.

5 years ago, I payed $0.89/gal, crude is about 3 times what it was then gas prices is more than 3.5 times what it was, transport costs are only slightly higher (inflation), refining costs are similar, gas station owner/operator makes LESS per gallon now.
Gas companies CAN gouge because we show no sign of using less.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:19 am
by Zelig
T-Shirt wrote:Gas companies CAN gouge because we show no sign of using less.
It's not gouging, it's how economics work. If the demand for a product in relatively inelastic, it makes sense for suppliers to raise the price up to whatever point will make them the most money. If they raise the price too far, people will buy less gas, and the companies will make less money.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:44 pm
by Darkstar
its kind of hard imagining buying less gas, i mean it always takes me the same amount to get to work and back with the occasional side trip. Cant imaging a massive conversion to public transit (where its available).
In SD, CA we have some of the worst prices in CA, not sure about the rest of the states,
Still better than the 5 -8 bucks they pay across the pond! :mrgreen:

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:13 pm
by Zelig
Darkstar wrote:its kind of hard imagining buying less gas, i mean it always takes me the same amount to get to work and back with the occasional side trip.
So if gas gets expensive enough, people will be forced to change their habits, by getting more fuel efficient cars, not driving to work, getting jobs closer to home, carpooling, etc. All of those things reduce the gas required to comute to work, and don't need any investment by the government into public transit.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm
by T-Shirt
Zelig wrote:
T-Shirt wrote:Gas companies CAN gouge because we show no sign of using less.
It's not gouging, it's how economics work. If the demand for a product in relatively inelastic, it makes sense for suppliers to raise the price up to whatever point will make them the most money. If they raise the price too far, people will buy less gas, and the companies will make less money.
Sure, it's basic economics, but it is also gouging to take profits as a %, during a shortage/period of record high prices, particularly if the shortage is self-induced. (refining capacity and reliablity is the problem in the US, not actual crude supply)
In spite of getting huge tax credits for increasing capacity, refinery output is up only slightly, and breakdowns are become more frequent. (very poor maintaince)
Further, in the last year, big oil has greatly reduced imports of refined fuels, in order to increase our dependance on their output.
If everyone in the US made an effort to reduce their consumption by even a few percent (tune up, air in tires, careful planning to combine needed trips/avoid unneeded trips, carpool/bus 1 day a week, etc.) prices would drop, cut consuption 5% (1 gallon in 20, tough but possible) prices would plummet. Add to that an expected "adjustment in the chinese stock/investment prices (probably will slow their growth rate) a price colapse is likely , but the next year is the pinchpoint.
No matter what, in the long run energy will be expensive, and it is also important enviromentally to adjust your lif (everyone's) to use less/as little as possible.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:30 pm
by Darkstar
OK, how many people carpool here?

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:18 pm
by JohntechUPi
TShirt,
How many Gas refineries are there in Washington state still operating?
I am not an expert but I remember reading that Washington Sate will not allow it because of the enviormental concerns.

And just a question so I am poking fun just asking, if the cost of oil is related to the cost of producing it and delivery as the oil companies claim how come oil and or Gas is more expensive in the west coast then say in the Mid West?
What the Oil companies do I think is just :evil: Politics
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T-Shirt wrote:
Gas companies CAN gouge because we show no sign of using less.


It's not gouging, it's how economics work. If the demand for a product in relatively inelastic, it makes sense for suppliers to raise the price up to whatever point will make them the most money. If they raise the price too far, people will buy less gas, and the companies will make less money.


T-Shirt

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:20 am
by T-Shirt
currently there are 6 major oil refineries in western washington
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/swfa/ind ... /oil1.html
What that list doesn't count is bio fuel refineries, several industrial sized bio-diesel/reprocesser exist, as well as the US largest canola- diesel refinery will open on the coast this year.
http://www.imperiumrenewables.com/who.we.are.html

Since the oil refineries here all feed a pipeline going south to portland, you would thik the price here, along that corridor, would be somewhat cheaper.
but Nooooooo, closest to the refineries and cities right next to the distribution hubs along the pipeline have some of the highest prices and it's not fuel taxes which are set at the state level here.
Mid West and eastern cities have access to gulf of mexico central and south american oil via a huge network of pipelines, which are cheaper than truck, rail, and shipping used more often in the west.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:15 am
by Tech_Greek
I still love it...$52 to fill up my damn family car...my paycheck hasnt gotten any bigger than normal here - total BULL ****.

But here's the kicker, the rich people all go around in their big Tahoes, Escalades, etc and from a light they will freaking be near flooring it (I know if I'm at 50% throttle and they are walking away, they are on almost on the gas 100% of the way because of the power my car has )...

If all these damn Suburbans would get off the road, I might be able to afford gas next week...

- Tech

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:39 pm
by vicaphit
I saw a woman in a tahoe yesterday, she was all alone in a vehicle that could carry a dozen people... The government should force anyone on the road with vehicles like that to drive everyone else around.

I would carpool if anyone I worked with lived around me... nobody in this area carpools because were in a rural area.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:02 pm
by Sovereign
Gas prices are ridiculous. My definition of gouging isn't high prices by themselves, rather you have to look at "Is the industry being accused of gouging making huge profits that they aren't using to improve their services?" With Big Oil, the answer is yes. These companies make a gigantic amount of money. But the price must go higher, because obviously consumers need to be sucked dry.

In a perfect economy, such things would not happen because beyond reasonable compensation (sorry, no multi-million dollar salaries for CEOs who suck) of employees and addressing day-to-day operating costs, all of a business's profits should go into making their enterprise more efficient than it was yesterday. Make more with the same or less. Make the same with less. Find ways to cut costs. Big Oil doesn't do that. They are only concerned with their present bottom line. Now mind you, Detroit isn't helping, because by continuing to pump out inefficient gas hogs, they are feeding the oil monster. And we, by purchasing these vehicles, are as guilty as the rest of them. Of course, there's not much choice with fuel economy if you're going to buy an American brand (which some insist on doing for various reasons). The Japanese are kicking our butts with fuel efficiency. Why is it that the people who built atomic bombs, computers and landed on the moon can't make an internal combustion engine more efficient?

I think that the high prices are only a reflection of the real problem: inefficient vehicles. Big Oil is gouging, but there is a reason behind it beyond simple profits. We are so addicted to oil that we can't break free. Only by improving efficiency will we see any gains, but that's not happening because Washington and Detroit are too busy complaining about "additional costs." What happened, I wonder, to Yankee ingenuity?

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:18 pm
by stev
I've been riding my bicycle into work mostly. I've saved over $800 this year alone if the average price hangs around $3/gallon.

People say, it's nice riding for you health. ha-ha. NOT, I'm only riding because I can't afford the $60 dollar fillups! A few years back, the fillup was $24.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:35 pm
by Bio-Hazard
I don't go anywhere anymore these days, just can't see paying the high gas prices. Even mowing my grass is getting expensive, but then again, I'm push mowing around 2 acres I guess............ :shock: