Making Movies With Super LoiLoScope - CUDA Enabled
Re: Making Movies With Super LoiLoScope - CUDA Enabled
If this works half decent and has better import support then Premiere Elements may have a competitor.
Re: Making Movies With Super LoiLoScope - CUDA Enabled
Hi.. I'm new here, I signed up just to post in this topic.
I bought Super LoiLoScope Mars and have it in a machine that has a Q6600 with a 8800GT and the performance of this software is simply incredible. I use it primarily as a editor for a Hauppauge HD-PVR since the bundled software is just terrible. (Total Media Extreme as it comes bundled is not really a usuable editor). My main editing functions are to cut commercials, trim the start and end point, and resize the video (to crop slightly), which is very easy to do in this application.
If you've purchased LoiLoScope (currently $59 US) here is what it can actually do for someone with needs similar to mine. Fairly easy frame accurate editing on H264, resizing, joining of multiple clips, basic titleling and transitions, blending clips (overlaying), rotation, and easy color correction. I should mention everything is realtime in this application except for your encoding. There are downsides of course, the main one I noticed is the lack at the current revision of the software to add black bars for cropping purposes. As to the encoding, it uses the generic Nvidia Cuda encoder which is faster than realtime at 720P on my system or the slow Quicktime encoder (though it will let you encode to any output codec you wish that FFDShow supports). Quicktime encoder allows far more flexibility and a better encode at the price of a very long encoding session.
Here are some tips I had to discover the "painful" way that I'd like to share to let others avoid the same experience.
After you've installed the app, as well as CCCP and Quicktime, you will need one other application that they don't mention which is YAMB (Yet another MP4 Box Gui). The reason you will need this is that encodes done with Quicktime rather than CUDA will be muxed wrong unless your source happens to have a framerate that lines up perfectly with the defaults that Loilo happens to pass to the muxer (which also happens to be MP4Box). This is fairly easy to spot, audio sync will be correct at the start of your encode and then "drift" progressively farther out of sync towards the end of your encoded material. CUDA encodes don't seem to suffer from this issue, they stay in sync. The fix for the sync issue is fairly easy, extract your encodes video and audio streams in YAMB, then remux into a MP4 container but this time specifying the actual framerate that your source was "exactly" which will fix the issue.
Cutting at frame accurate points is simply a matter of zooming the timeline enough (mousewheel is your friend here). There are no "nudge" keys that I've been able to find, and you can't do anything but minor endpoint trimming of clips outside of the main timeline window. For myself, it was pointless to even bother endpoint trimming on clips, since this can be done more easily on the timeline module, and since you get an infinate number of timelines to play with in that module (or as many as your system can handle at least). More solid methods of editing like specifying a frame by number are not part of this app, so zooming is your only option. Once you've picked the spot for the endpoint, drag the rest of the clip down on the timeline and pick the new startpoint, cut again and delete the part you don't want, LoiLoScope will then let you butt the two "new" endpoints together easily, since it will jump them into place and change the timeline color when you drag it close.
The next issue is with CUDA encoding, do not attempt to choose a reduction in framerate for your encode that is significantly different from what your source was at. In my case 720P should be encoded at 60FPS (not exact but you have few choices here, 59.94 isn't possible). If you attempt to encode it at 30FPS you'll find that your CUDA encode will stutter badly on playback. The CUDA encoder simply can't seem to manage any FPS change from your sourcefiles without getting confused on which frames it should be dropping (should be a simple every other frame decimation) even though Loiloscope is passing it what appears to be a proper parameter for doing this, the current 2.2 version of the encoding dll doesn't handle it correctly. Just pick the closest whole number to what your source FPS is for your encode and your encode will turn out well. One nice thing is if you've purchased Loiloscope you end up with most of the functionallity of Badaboom as a freebie. Badaboom does have the advantage of the fact they wrote thier own CUDA encoder, so it has more "options" available than LoiLoScope. LoiLoScope only get's the generic Nvidia one that is put to use in several other pieces of software, though at present LoiLoScope offers the most "control" of the limited encoding options that you can get from the generic encode DLL.
Another issue is the defaults chosen for CUDA encoding. LoiLoScope makes no attempt to select encoding bitrate that was anything similar to what the original clip(s) were. It always defaults to a fairly "max" (10000 for 720P) setting which will increase the size of your encode with absolutely no gains in quality. Just choose a bitrate close to your source files for the average bitrate and set the max bitrate well above that (it won't reach it, so it won't affect encoding size). This method seems to work far better than using the constant quality settings which are also chosen at far to high for my encodes at least.
Another tip is if you happen to have the correct video hardware be sure to checkmark the CUDA setting for Video playback in the applications settings. It won't do that for you. LoiLoScope is still very fast without this setting but will "blur" playback without it.
Last but not least is my experiences with LoiLoScope stability. I've never crashed it "while" it was running, but have had issue's with it starting an encode (wrong settings, presets fail too often), going with custom settings works at least. It has also popped errors on launch, the solution to this is to uninstall and reinstall Quicktime, CCCP, and LoiLoScope (doesn't take long) and that fixes that issue.
That sums up my experiences so far, but for me the bottom line was if you have a HD-PVR this is the only software to come out so far that allows fast and easy editing for your recordings. For me, using GBPVR to record and LoiLoScope to edit has turned the HD PVR into what it should have left the factory as, a very nice recorder for HD television.
Thanks for reading, I hope this gives you some idea of "real life" experiences with this new piece of software.
Dave
I bought Super LoiLoScope Mars and have it in a machine that has a Q6600 with a 8800GT and the performance of this software is simply incredible. I use it primarily as a editor for a Hauppauge HD-PVR since the bundled software is just terrible. (Total Media Extreme as it comes bundled is not really a usuable editor). My main editing functions are to cut commercials, trim the start and end point, and resize the video (to crop slightly), which is very easy to do in this application.
If you've purchased LoiLoScope (currently $59 US) here is what it can actually do for someone with needs similar to mine. Fairly easy frame accurate editing on H264, resizing, joining of multiple clips, basic titleling and transitions, blending clips (overlaying), rotation, and easy color correction. I should mention everything is realtime in this application except for your encoding. There are downsides of course, the main one I noticed is the lack at the current revision of the software to add black bars for cropping purposes. As to the encoding, it uses the generic Nvidia Cuda encoder which is faster than realtime at 720P on my system or the slow Quicktime encoder (though it will let you encode to any output codec you wish that FFDShow supports). Quicktime encoder allows far more flexibility and a better encode at the price of a very long encoding session.
Here are some tips I had to discover the "painful" way that I'd like to share to let others avoid the same experience.
After you've installed the app, as well as CCCP and Quicktime, you will need one other application that they don't mention which is YAMB (Yet another MP4 Box Gui). The reason you will need this is that encodes done with Quicktime rather than CUDA will be muxed wrong unless your source happens to have a framerate that lines up perfectly with the defaults that Loilo happens to pass to the muxer (which also happens to be MP4Box). This is fairly easy to spot, audio sync will be correct at the start of your encode and then "drift" progressively farther out of sync towards the end of your encoded material. CUDA encodes don't seem to suffer from this issue, they stay in sync. The fix for the sync issue is fairly easy, extract your encodes video and audio streams in YAMB, then remux into a MP4 container but this time specifying the actual framerate that your source was "exactly" which will fix the issue.
Cutting at frame accurate points is simply a matter of zooming the timeline enough (mousewheel is your friend here). There are no "nudge" keys that I've been able to find, and you can't do anything but minor endpoint trimming of clips outside of the main timeline window. For myself, it was pointless to even bother endpoint trimming on clips, since this can be done more easily on the timeline module, and since you get an infinate number of timelines to play with in that module (or as many as your system can handle at least). More solid methods of editing like specifying a frame by number are not part of this app, so zooming is your only option. Once you've picked the spot for the endpoint, drag the rest of the clip down on the timeline and pick the new startpoint, cut again and delete the part you don't want, LoiLoScope will then let you butt the two "new" endpoints together easily, since it will jump them into place and change the timeline color when you drag it close.
The next issue is with CUDA encoding, do not attempt to choose a reduction in framerate for your encode that is significantly different from what your source was at. In my case 720P should be encoded at 60FPS (not exact but you have few choices here, 59.94 isn't possible). If you attempt to encode it at 30FPS you'll find that your CUDA encode will stutter badly on playback. The CUDA encoder simply can't seem to manage any FPS change from your sourcefiles without getting confused on which frames it should be dropping (should be a simple every other frame decimation) even though Loiloscope is passing it what appears to be a proper parameter for doing this, the current 2.2 version of the encoding dll doesn't handle it correctly. Just pick the closest whole number to what your source FPS is for your encode and your encode will turn out well. One nice thing is if you've purchased Loiloscope you end up with most of the functionallity of Badaboom as a freebie. Badaboom does have the advantage of the fact they wrote thier own CUDA encoder, so it has more "options" available than LoiLoScope. LoiLoScope only get's the generic Nvidia one that is put to use in several other pieces of software, though at present LoiLoScope offers the most "control" of the limited encoding options that you can get from the generic encode DLL.
Another issue is the defaults chosen for CUDA encoding. LoiLoScope makes no attempt to select encoding bitrate that was anything similar to what the original clip(s) were. It always defaults to a fairly "max" (10000 for 720P) setting which will increase the size of your encode with absolutely no gains in quality. Just choose a bitrate close to your source files for the average bitrate and set the max bitrate well above that (it won't reach it, so it won't affect encoding size). This method seems to work far better than using the constant quality settings which are also chosen at far to high for my encodes at least.
Another tip is if you happen to have the correct video hardware be sure to checkmark the CUDA setting for Video playback in the applications settings. It won't do that for you. LoiLoScope is still very fast without this setting but will "blur" playback without it.
Last but not least is my experiences with LoiLoScope stability. I've never crashed it "while" it was running, but have had issue's with it starting an encode (wrong settings, presets fail too often), going with custom settings works at least. It has also popped errors on launch, the solution to this is to uninstall and reinstall Quicktime, CCCP, and LoiLoScope (doesn't take long) and that fixes that issue.
That sums up my experiences so far, but for me the bottom line was if you have a HD-PVR this is the only software to come out so far that allows fast and easy editing for your recordings. For me, using GBPVR to record and LoiLoScope to edit has turned the HD PVR into what it should have left the factory as, a very nice recorder for HD television.
Thanks for reading, I hope this gives you some idea of "real life" experiences with this new piece of software.
Dave
Re: Making Movies With Super LoiLoScope - CUDA Enabled
I should have mentioned in that long post of mine what I actually have as a hardware setup that adding LoiLoScope gains me in the process.
On the hardware that matters for this, I'm using an old P4 Dell (Optiplex GX270) with a hard drive upgrade, plus an Asus AH3450 AGP card and a firewire card (to control channel changing on my cable box) as my media server/recorder at the TV, with the HD PVR hooked up to that. Playback to the TV (old Phillips widescreen glasstube HDTV) is accomplished by either my PS3 or by the GX270 depending on if I'm needing to record while playing back or not, since I don't have a HDMI changer at the moment and the TV only has one HDMI port. I have a webserver/fileserver, MPC-HC (Media Player Home Cinema), GBPVR (for recording scheduling) and a X10 Mediamouse setup that runs at all times on the GX270, which allows it to either put up content for the PS3 to playback or do it itself using MPC-HC with either the Mediamouse remote or oddly my PSP to control playback functions. The AH3450 in combination with MPC-HC allows even a "weak" system like that to play back H.264 with virtually no CPU usage needed, though it still pales in comparison to the playback superiority of the PS3.
My editing machine is connected over ethernet to both the PS3 and the GX270, basic info on it is Intel quad core 6600, with an Nvidia 8800GT. This is my only way to do editing since the machine at the TV was chosen mostly for price and size (yes, got it cheap off Ebay for this purpose) but it simply doesn't have the horsepower to do editing and encoding on it's own. I do have some hopes in the future (June to be exact) of using the PS3 to encode with, which is part of the reason I bought it in the first place. Fixstar has announced that it will release such a piece of software, though it has taken much longer than I thought it would for this to happen when I originally bought the PS3. With any luck the PS3 will be capable of doing the encoding that I'm doing now through CUDA, with higher quality to the encode. If not, the CUDA encodes are "not bad at all" for my generic TV watching and I am willing to take the much longer time needed for a Quicktime encode for something I want to archive for permanent future use.
Without LoiLoScope there was simply no good way to do commercial cutting and resizeing that I need for my recordings that wasn't both very time consuming + very tedious to accomplish. The PS3 was the only good playback option I had, since it can fast forward through commercials, but while that's fine for normal "tv watching" it's not something I want to do for things I archive. With LoiLoScope, I can now make far better use of the fairly cheap DVR setup I built, since I do need the capabilities it adds when watching my archives on other devices like my PSP.
Thanks again for reading..
Dave
On the hardware that matters for this, I'm using an old P4 Dell (Optiplex GX270) with a hard drive upgrade, plus an Asus AH3450 AGP card and a firewire card (to control channel changing on my cable box) as my media server/recorder at the TV, with the HD PVR hooked up to that. Playback to the TV (old Phillips widescreen glasstube HDTV) is accomplished by either my PS3 or by the GX270 depending on if I'm needing to record while playing back or not, since I don't have a HDMI changer at the moment and the TV only has one HDMI port. I have a webserver/fileserver, MPC-HC (Media Player Home Cinema), GBPVR (for recording scheduling) and a X10 Mediamouse setup that runs at all times on the GX270, which allows it to either put up content for the PS3 to playback or do it itself using MPC-HC with either the Mediamouse remote or oddly my PSP to control playback functions. The AH3450 in combination with MPC-HC allows even a "weak" system like that to play back H.264 with virtually no CPU usage needed, though it still pales in comparison to the playback superiority of the PS3.
My editing machine is connected over ethernet to both the PS3 and the GX270, basic info on it is Intel quad core 6600, with an Nvidia 8800GT. This is my only way to do editing since the machine at the TV was chosen mostly for price and size (yes, got it cheap off Ebay for this purpose) but it simply doesn't have the horsepower to do editing and encoding on it's own. I do have some hopes in the future (June to be exact) of using the PS3 to encode with, which is part of the reason I bought it in the first place. Fixstar has announced that it will release such a piece of software, though it has taken much longer than I thought it would for this to happen when I originally bought the PS3. With any luck the PS3 will be capable of doing the encoding that I'm doing now through CUDA, with higher quality to the encode. If not, the CUDA encodes are "not bad at all" for my generic TV watching and I am willing to take the much longer time needed for a Quicktime encode for something I want to archive for permanent future use.
Without LoiLoScope there was simply no good way to do commercial cutting and resizeing that I need for my recordings that wasn't both very time consuming + very tedious to accomplish. The PS3 was the only good playback option I had, since it can fast forward through commercials, but while that's fine for normal "tv watching" it's not something I want to do for things I archive. With LoiLoScope, I can now make far better use of the fairly cheap DVR setup I built, since I do need the capabilities it adds when watching my archives on other devices like my PSP.
Thanks again for reading..
Dave