HDD cooling

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 pm

You are right on that would explain alot. ABIT EQ is notoriously wrong, from what I am seeing anywhere from 10-13C!!! I should be getting my new fan controller/temp sensor tomorrow. I'll set it up on my ABIT board and compare all the temps. My thought is....that ABIT uses a mathematical equation based on a sensor built into the chip, where as the other temps come from diods on the board. My temps are about the same from my ASUS as the ABIT in regards to the SYS temps, but even those were 2=3C different than what I saw from a probe.
As far as fan controllers and temp probes. I would recommend the Vantec, Cooler Master, or Thermaltake Hardcano, if you are just looking for something to do the basics. I bought a Macpower because it can control 8 fans (or in my case 7 fans and my pump), and it has 8 thermal probes, which allows me to track several key things for testing/reviews. Those controllers also come with thermal tape to connect them to the item (you can also go buy thermal tape. I would not put a probe between the heatsink and cpu, you need a good flat connection to maximize heat dissipation, what I did was tape the probe to the side of the CPUs heat spreader, you will still get a very good reading, and it won't interfer with the seating of the heatsink. Use the same idea with your NB (chipset), and GPU (video card).
Our little tango got me thinking last night, I thought that unless someone really understood the corrolation between system components/heat/performance/and cooling, this could all be confusing or frustrating. So my project for this weekend is to write up an article about heat generated, effects on performance, and ways to help the problem for everyone.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:10 am

sounds like a good idea(the article) as to the heat probe on the heatsink, what I was refering to drilling a hole in the heatsink about 1/8" fron the bottom that would run into the middle of the sink. The probe wouyld then be inserted into that hole thus placing it right above the processor core. I am not sure how the hole in the sink might affect the flow of heat within the heatsink. I don't remember where I saw this idea but they included drawings and some technical data. I wish I could remember where I saw it, I think it might have been on AMD's site.

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:20 am

You dont really want a hole right over the core as that is the hottest place and where you need the most cooling potential you can get. If you did that your temps might go up a few deggrees. Now drilling a hole in the heat sink is a good idea if you put it off center, and off of the contact area. If its an intel system then put it off to the side of the heat spreder if amd then to the side of the core. One extreme solution would be to put it into the heat spreader of the intel. do this by mesuring out the die location and then drill a hole in the heat spreader that is to the side of the die with a drill press so you dont over dammage the chip. But realy all any of this does is increase the reliableity if your temp readings. just placeing the thermal probe under the cpu or on the heat spreader will be more than enough to give you reasonable tempreture readings.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:38 am

Wouln't the probe fill the hole right above the core? as long as it was a solid temp probe and long enough, I would think the thermal conductivity of the probe itself would allow heat to pass thru it and into the sink. You could even fill the hole with thermal grease first and then displace it when you insert the probe then seal off the hole so the grease can't leak out. Just some thoughts. I do agree that offsetting the probe would still yield a good reading and not risk compromising the thermal integrity of the sink.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:25 am

I have seen what you describe done for testing purposes, but as to user application I wouldn't recommend it. First, those thing are getting pretty percision engineered, and I don't think they advocate altering their stuff.... but thats what we do right, find something and try to make it better.
Second, you are right about the probe filling the area, but since it will be made of a different material, it will have different thermal properties, which could affect cooling and even give you a faulty teperature. Third, as with air bubble or ridges in the thermal paste, i figure that the air trapped in there would end up superheating, either hindering or negating the affects of the heat sink. Seriously, i would just use some thermal tape and mount the probe to the side of the heat spreadeer. I have also seen people use thermal tape and mount a probe to the backside of the mobo, directly under the CPU..

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:23 pm

I agree. The easier the mod is the less room for me to flubb it up. I was just curious to see if any of you guys had tried it. I did find where I say it and it was on AMD's site but the document was from 1999 and they said to drill a 1/16 hole in the heatsink such that the probe would actually touch the CPU core, they said to use thermal epoxy to glue it in with. The doc was from 1999 so it probably pertains to older CPUs. I'll just use thermal tape to the side of the sink.

lioninstreet · Post by **lioninstreet** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:28 pm

[quote="Merlin"]Hey guys what's up?
I have been checking into some cooling solutions for my total system instead of focusing all my attention on the CPU temp. The info I have thus far points to the HDD being the most temp sensitive part in the system.

Hey Merlin,
How did your HDD temp testing ever end up? I am also looking for a reasonably quiet HDD cooling solution. Ive read most of the thread you started and it seems like some are overlooking something.

Unless I start using an external rad, vapochill, or something else on the exotic side, the effectiveness of my case cooling will allways be directly proportional to my cases ambient temp. So HDD cooling should not be trivial. And the obvious is, especially to those who have dealt with the inconvience of a HDD failure, cooler mechanical tempratures mean longer lasting hardware.

I myself am running a pair of 15k Ultra 320 SCSI drives and can tell you first hand, those buggers get hot! But the spec'd data transfer rates were so much faster than the 10k SATA drives that I couldn't resist giving 'em a shot even though they cost way more per GB.

It was worth it tho...I am still tweaking it to do some benchmarking but so far I have a system that loads Windows in 4 seconds!

But in the mean time I need a good, quality product to cool 'em down

Zelig · Post by **Zelig** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:25 am

lioninstreet wrote:Unless I start using an external rad, vapochill, or something else on the exotic side, the effectiveness of my case cooling will allways be directly proportional to my cases ambient temp.

You actually mean "inversely proportional" here... (sorry, couldn't help myself ;))

I generally don't bother with HDD cooling, I've seen plenty of hard drives die, but haven't really seen any benefits to cooling them specifically.

lioninstreet · Post by **lioninstreet** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:50 pm

You actually mean "inversely proportional" here... (sorry, couldn't help myself ;))

I generally don't bother with HDD cooling, I've seen plenty of hard drives die, but haven't really seen any benefits to cooling them specifically.[/quote]

I stand corrected

Still, having a pair of toasty SCSI drives can't be doing much for the ambient temp in my case. I obviously need a effective way to cool 'em down. Standard IDE or SATA HDD's do run cooler out of the box, hence the limited effectiveness of cooling 'em. But the data transfer rate of a slower Rpm drive is at minimum 20%-50% slower depending on the model.

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:55 pm

With 15k scsi drives your going to need cooling. Keeping drives cool does help with the life/longevity of the drive.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:42 pm

Hey Capper, I thought I would thank you for the tutorial on MOSFETs, however, just for me and probably a good deal of those who don't know what they look like, do you mind posting a pic or a link illustrating the MOSFETs, because I've heard a lot about MOSFET passive coolers (read sinks) and how it tends to make a system more stable. Also, I live by the phrase "cooler is better", and do everything within my power, everything from the type of thermal paste used on the CPU to airflow and airflow pressure monitoring, to keep my and my customers' systems cool and rock-solid. I'm also a big fan of cable management, both power and data cable. I'm with everyone else in that the HDD temp is the least of a system's problems, as I've built numerous systems over the past 2 or 3 years, everything from office PC's to mild workstations. And if I'm not too out of line, capper, I would even go as far as to say that HDD cooling is optional, even in the wildest of gaming systems, but that's just from my personal experience. I mean, I know I ask a lot of questions, but only when it's about technology updates or problems that get me to the point I want to use the rig as a football. Sorry, didn't mean to write so much to say so little, but I figured I would clear the air on many things at one time

Zinn2b · Post by **Zinn2b** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:03 am

Ya I am having Mountain mods build me a custom case . for my next system . So I well have that . I have already got my water chiller cooling system from raid computers .really $$$$$$ but it is so sweet . water manifold with 8 outlet ports. 1 pressure port. 1 temp port. Chiller is 2"H x6"Wx 11L With temp controller. 450 watt power supply. Innvotek harddrive coolers water. 4 120 RADs . the rest of the water blocks I will purchase as their released for the cpu and and gpu's I well be using.

Here's what a need all those outlet ports for.

2 cpu ports
2 video card ports
1 north bridge port
1 mossit port
2harddrive ports

This thing is going to be nice and Betty at raid computers is the most knowledgeable PC hardware woman I have every talked to.
I wanted to talk to her husband but after talking with Betty I am really pleased.

I would love to buy one of their gamer pc's but their prices are the highest I have ever seen .

I paid a lot for the cooling system $ 1700. But after receiving it I can understand the Price. It't workmanship and quality is unreal.

When I get my system done I will post pics . I could tell you guys about the temp and water pressure gauges and Temp controller but i well wait till I post pics. It is so COOL!!

lioninstreet · Post by **lioninstreet** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:41 am

Does anyone have a link for Innvotek? Nothing seems to work for me. I either get a dead link, a domain for sale, or redirected to junk.

Bio-Hazard · Post by **Bio-Hazard** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:35 pm

http://www.innovatek.de/

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:20 pm

Here's what I did:
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p= ... ostcount=1

cubedgame · Post by **cubedgame** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:54 pm

This is my HDD cooling solution: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835888110

After having a hard drive die on me before it was even a year old would have been a bad experience had I not backed up my data recently. Now all the desktops in the house have some form of cooling on the hard drive. Better to be safe than sorry. I find a regular 80 or 120mm fan works quite well.

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