Corsair HX520W, good power supply, but needs care.

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:13 pm

Hello.

Recently did an upgrade that was nearly a new build, and to feed my E6420 CPU and the like I bought a Corsair HX520X power supply to replace the Antec SmartPower I was using. Good PSU, a little on the low side for some voltages but holds them extremely well. My system only consumes 170 watts from the wall at idle, 250 watts at max, and I don't have precise enough tools to give a legitimate review, but I personally would recommend it so far.

But less so than my Antec.

Made a bit of a mistake today, nearly needed the fire extinguisher. These modular cables are cheap and pathetic. Still my fault, but god I loath these cables.

I changed things up a bit, and I had to disconnect a few cables. When I reconnected them I didn't look at what I was doing, I just felt inside the case, grabbed the cable I needed, and slid it onto the floppy drive connector assuming the bars that protect it from improper connection would act as a guide. A bad habit that my Antec gave me. It slid on without a hitch, unsurprising as all the cables seem a bit undersize, and when I hit the power switch the magic blue smoke of doom began to fill my room.

Some pics to feed to the crowd.

Strange thing is, short circuit protection never kicked in. Maybe I didn't give it enough time? Oh well, the hand is faster than the PSU.

With the little testing I have done so far it seems to be an excellent power supply when it comes to maintaining what's it's feeding my setup. When discussing this at another forum it was stated that with voltages of 11.71 and 4.85 my power supply was an odd ball and I should RMA. I called Corsair's tech support to see what they said and to get a feel for what kind of experience I could expect from them. Going to keep using it since it functions and the voltages are within tolerences, and because it was a pleasent conversation that took very little time that gave me the belief that an RMA would always be possible should a problem finally arise.

Though with a small load like my machine, the performance of the $125 HX520 does not really out pace the Antec SMartPower that came with my $100 Antec Sonata II Case, but it is certainly a purchase I am happy with.

Only point to beware of is those cables.

Now back to playing with my new toy.

Alathald · Post by **Alathald** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:47 pm

how did you short it?
I have a 620 and can't figure out how I could manage to plug in the modular cables in such a way that it would cause a short...could you maybe snap a pic of the way you had the cable plugged into the psu?
or am I not quite picturing this correctly?

EDIT: nvrmind, guess I should look at the pics before posting...I thought you meant it was plugged in the PSU incorrectly...I bet that made a nice smell in your room

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Fri May 04, 2007 6:15 pm

Alathald wrote:how did you short it?

EDIT: nvrmind, guess I should look at the pics before posting...I thought you meant it was plugged in the PSU incorrectly...I bet that made a nice smell in your room

To be exact, +12v line met ground line on the Floppy connector.

And that smell, that long lasting, fragrant odor. If you like the smell of various burning plastics, then it was wonderous.

Post by **dicecca112** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:14 pm

These modular cables are cheap and pathetic. Still my fault, but god I loath these cables.

Not really, they are of the same quality of all the modular cables on the market

Strange thing is, short circuit protection never kicked in. Maybe I didn't give it enough time? Oh well, the hand is faster than the PSU. Very Happy

This wasn't a short. This was user error.

When discussing this at another forum it was stated that with voltages of 11.71 and 4.85 my power supply was an odd ball and I should RMA.

Was this via multimeter or software. If its software its not accurate

It should not be RMA'd you should have to buy a new one. RMAing a PSU that you broke, is unethical and unscrupulous

Sporg · Post by **Sporg** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:58 pm

Oh yah, I recognize that! Did that a few years ago, burnt through an IDE cable and a couple of other cables before I pulled the plug. Good times!

Things like this make you slow down and double check everything.

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:36 pm

dicecca112 wrote:
These modular cables are cheap and pathetic. Still my fault, but god I loath these cables.
Not really, they are of the same quality of all the modular cables on the market
Strange thing is, short circuit protection never kicked in. Maybe I didn't give it enough time? Oh well, the hand is faster than the PSU. Very Happy
This wasn't a short. This was user error.
When discussing this at another forum it was stated that with voltages of 11.71 and 4.85 my power supply was an odd ball and I should RMA.
Was this via multimeter or software. If its software its not accurate
It should not be RMA'd you should have to buy a new one. RMAing a PSU that you broke, is unethical and unscrupulous

Took me a while to decide why your post is offensive as all hell yet so short. Then I figured it out. I get this image by the end of me being a retarded chimp without morals. I think it's how everything you typed is fairly derisive.

The voltages were measured with a digital multimeter when the unit first arrived, tested first on a old system then on my newest. They have not changed since it left the box, even as I use it now. Which is why I complimented the unit for being fairly solid. Second, a short is a short. Period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_circuit
The electrical current was supposed to go into the floppy's +12v line, through a circuit with resistance, and out the ground line. Instead, the +12v line met the ground line immediately with extremely low resistance. Why doesn't matter. User Error doesn't matter. Electricity does what it will without regard for human intent, it obeys physical law. If there is short circuit protection, then it should trip when such conditions arise, whether from a manufacturer's defect or because you keep monkeys in your PC. Either way, it needs to work, and it didn't. Yes, I was lazy and trusting. And I paid a bill of one cable and one floppy drive for it. Frankly, I shouldn't of needed to, but I still took my losses like I should.

The cables may be the same of the same quality as all the others. I wouldn't know as this is my first modular unit. Bad cables are not made any better by all the others of the same type being as bad. Something isn't made acceptable just by holding it up in comparison to the others and having it not be any worse.

My apologies to those who spent the time reading this rant who weren't even involved. Come what may, now I am a happy retarded corrupt chimp.

Alathald · Post by **Alathald** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:36 pm

TheVoid wrote:Took me a while to decide why your post is offensive as all hell yet so short. Then I figured it out. I get this image by the end of me being a retarded chimp without morals. I think it's how everything you typed is fairly derisive.

The voltages were measured with a digital multimeter when the unit first arrived, tested first on a old system then on my newest. They have not changed since it left the box, even as I use it now. Which is why I complimented the unit for being fairly solid. Second, a short is a short. Period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_circuit
The electrical current was supposed to go into the floppy's +12v line, through a circuit with resistance, and out the ground line. Instead, the +12v line met the ground line immediately with extremely low resistance. Why doesn't matter. User Error doesn't matter. Electricity does what it will without regard for human intent, it obeys physical law. If there is short circuit protection, then it should trip when such conditions arise, whether from a manufacturer's defect or because you keep monkeys in your PC. Either way, it needs to work, and it didn't. Yes, I was lazy and trusting. And I paid a bill of one cable and one floppy drive for it. Frankly, I shouldn't of needed to, but I still took my losses like I should.

The cables may be the same of the same quality as all the others. I wouldn't know as this is my first modular unit. Bad cables are not made any better by all the others of the same type being as bad. Something isn't made acceptable just by holding it up in comparison to the others and having it not be any worse.

My apologies to those who spent the time reading this rant who weren't even involved. Come what may, now I am a happy retarded corrupt chimp.

Don't be offended by dicecca, we don't let him out much

Anyway, while he was admitedly short with his response, I don't think he meant to offend. Most folks that are new generally dont know thw proper ways to go about testing, but apparently you do. also dicecca is generally regarded as the PSU geek around here because he really knows his stuff.
If you reread your original post, it can be interprated that you had meant to RMA after shorting the PSU so...
Also, either way it WAS user error.

Post by **dicecca112** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:30 pm

right I never meant to insult you. A lot of user forums, have people that have no f'ing idea what they are talking about.

For god sake most software says my 5V rail is running a 2.344V. Just wanted to make sure you had the right info.

I also see a lot of people RMAing fried chips and what not, that they broke. That's not something LR condones. Like what was said I never meant to imply that you did, I was just saying that you should think about it, if you planned to.

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:25 pm

Then my bad for being too touchy. Forgive me?

Strangely enough my motherboards reports are fairly accurate, within 0.2 volts of the actual, but that is still way too far off to be trusted.

A fried chip is a clear user's problem. They fed a chip that outlined both max temps and max voltage too much and it broke. Anything like that I would claim as my problem in a heart beat. Key thing being that it was used in a manner that was outside of spec.

I'd still argue that a failure to react to a short when the unit claims to have short circuit protection is a failing of the manufacturer and product. Clearly the over current protection works because of two things: The machine amazingly continued to try and POST, and the damage control was excellent in that the wire was the only damaged piece. The unit should of shutdown however when the short was sustained because had it been allowed to continue by the user there may of been flames, in which case I'd dare call it unsafe. And the cables made it possible, so it is a design flaw that will commonly be found and potentially suffered by all units, something users should be aware of before they get lazy and comfortable with it, so as to avoid those user errors.

Edit: Though now that I think about it, I think a poll is in order, if that can be easily done here. I'm not certain who the blame would sit on if it HAD been broken. I'd take it for not taking care with my work, but I don't believe I could try to make someone else do the same on any sort of moral grounds.

Post by **dicecca112** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:54 am

any user can post a poll, so be my guest

Post by **Apoptosis** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:26 pm

so basically you plugged in the floppy drive incorrectly and fried some things as you were one pin away from where you should have been... basically your grounds were hot and the hot was a ground... Any PSU would do this right? I've never seen this happen before, but when plugging stuff in quickly I'm sure many people have done the same thing... Did it ruin the PSU?

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Apoptosis wrote:so basically you plugged in the floppy drive incorrectly and fried some things as you were one pin away from where you should have been... basically your grounds were hot and the hot was a ground... Any PSU would do this right? I've never seen this happen before, but when plugging stuff in quickly I'm sure many people have done the same thing... Did it ruin the PSU?

Floppy Power Pinout
Pin Name Connected Where
1 +5v --------------------Connected to Power Supply Ground
2 Ground ----------------Connected to Power Supply Ground
3 Ground ----------------Connected to Power Supply +12v
4 +12v -------------------Floppy Pin in Air

Power Supply +5v was left in air as well. The floppy drive wasn't damaged, so the 2 grounds must be common and the +12v must of been straight to ground. I could probably use the drive again if it weren't for the fact that the connectors are fused together. I could still cut the floppy connector off, and fix it with a bit of solder but the effort isn't really worth the value of the drive to me.

The power supply wasn't damaged. I'm using it right now, and it's still at the same (low but usuable) voltages it had when I first popped it out of the retail box.

Post by **Apoptosis** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:43 am

All the rails are low? how low is low? The only rail I have ever seen low on the Corsair PSU's is the 5V as the +12V and +3.3V rails are always above specs unless really pushed hard.

Nein · Post by **Nein** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:12 pm

TheVoid wrote:I'd still argue that a failure to react to a short when the unit claims to have short circuit protection is a failing of the manufacturer and product. Clearly the over current protection works because of two things: The machine amazingly continued to try and POST, and the damage control was excellent in that the wire was the only damaged piece. The unit should of shutdown however when the short was sustained because had it been allowed to continue by the user there may of been flames, in which case I'd dare call it unsafe. And the cables made it possible, so it is a design flaw that will commonly be found and potentially suffered by all units, something users should be aware of before they get lazy and comfortable with it, so as to avoid those user errors.

Clearly the over current protection never did become active, Normally over-current protection would be activated when output exceed the rail specification by ~1dB. For a typical single rail 12V@40A PSU that would be ~45A, unfortunately 20A would already be enough to melt and burn that power cable before the protection ever got kicked in... 30A out for a 40A rail is not a short circuit condition to the PSU.

This here is how over-current and over-voltage protections demonstrated to be actively functional.
MajorGeeks

TheVoid wrote:The power supply wasn't damaged. I'm using it right now, and it's still at the same (low but usuable) voltages it had when I first popped it out of the retail box.

Do not leave your computer on running 24/7 without anyone keeping an eye on it, the PSU can actually catch on fire when no one is around.

TheVoid · Post by **TheVoid** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm

Nein wrote:Clearly the over current protection never did become active, Normally over-current protection would be activated when output exceed the rail specification by ~1dB. For a typical single rail 12V@40A PSU that would be ~45A, unfortunately 20A would already be enough to melt and burn that power cable before the protection ever got kicked in... 30A out for a 40A rail is not a short circuit condition to the PSU.
This here is how over-current and over-voltage protections demonstrated to be actively functional.
MajorGeeks
Do not leave your computer on running 24/7 without anyone keeping an eye on it, the PSU can actually catch on fire when no one is around.

Stripped out any quotes from myself to save space.
In the link you provided the author of the thread stated that fans spun up, lights came on, but the machine never booted. When I turned the power on, I had similar conditions. As I said, the machine tried to POST. The fans started spinning, hard drives spun up, but the fans stuttered a moment and all I ever saw was a black screen. Only let it go for about 2 seconds, but that should be enough for a POST screen. I can't really say for certain if it was enough time, because I had more immediate things to think about. Like smoke from the side of the box, rather than the monitor. Priorities.

Also, you state that 20Amps would melt the wire, I would agree. 30 Amps is not a short condition, I would agree. But, what exactly would limit it to these lower currents? I could see it cutting the current at the max rating of 40 amps as I have a little variable lab power supply that I can set amps on, but to be honest I have no idea how these actually limit current. Would the wire have a different resistance under such conditions? Any insight as to what's going on inside the black box?

Nein · Post by **Nein** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:58 pm

TheVoid wrote:Also, you state that 20Amps would melt the wire, I would agree. 30 Amps is not a short condition, I would agree. But, what exactly would limit it to these lower currents?

For typical single rail PSUs, nothing would limit it to the lower currents without fuses or fusible-links per power connection. There're actually single rail PSUs made without this basic fundamental safety, even though the floppy power connection is only good for 10A max, 2A to 4A typical for floppy, CD/DVD is nominal.

TheVoid wrote:I could see it cutting the current at the max rating of 40 amps as I have a little variable lab power supply that I can set amps on, but to be honest I have no idea how these actually limit current. Would the wire have a different resistance under such conditions? Any insight as to what's going on inside the black box?

12V Single rail PSUs normally had one power compensation feed-forward/back for a single 12V rail, one over-voltage protection preset for a single 12V rail, one over-current protection preset for a single 12V rail... To all individual 12V power connections.

They don't have multiple independent 12V pathways, independent protection presets for multiple individual 12V power connections as true 12V multi-rail PSUs would... But they're easier and much cheaper to build.

Post by **dicecca112** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:03 pm

jesus someones a PSU/Electronics Guru

Alathald · Post by **Alathald** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:23 pm

dicecca112 wrote:jesus someones a PSU/Electronics Guru

I was just thinking the same thing...looks like he may give you a run for the position of 'head PSU geek' dicecca, you may have to take a secondary position

Post by **dicecca112** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:24 pm

dude there wasn't even a fight. I'm in the corner wearing the dunce cap at this point.

stopthekilling77 · Post by **stopthekilling77** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:33 pm

the more the merrier, and i'll be glad if/when i run into a PSU problem that both of you are around.

gonna go do some research there, dicecca112?