Help with Mobo Selection

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:17 am

Hello. I'm looking for some advise on a Motherboard. This is my first experience with Motherboard replacements. Although I'm not completely ignorant when it comes to PC's, I do know just enough to be dangerous.

I am using a Compaq Presario that was given to me from work for online gaming, etc. It had an ECS Socket A motherboard (AMD Athlon/1.2 Ghz) with the VIA KT333 & 8233A chipset. A long story short, after two days on online chat with an HP tech, he deduced that my mobo was fried.

Therefore:

I recently purchased a Mobo/CPU combo from Fry's online (ECS K8T890-A/AMD 64 3500 1.8 Ghz) Unfortunately, I couldn't get text to appear on this mobo either when trying to boot. After calling a tech to come to my house, he informed me that it was my AGP Video Card (ATI Radeon 9550 256 Mb) We were able to get the PC running using an old NVidia GeForce2 Utra 64 Mb card that I had. I, then, repaced the Radeon that night since it was under warranty, but I had the same problem as before when trying to boot. After visitiing the ECS website, I believe this mobo does not support my Vid Card in their AGP express slot. (Waiting on an email from ECS to confirm).

So.....................
Since I am quite happy with my Radeon Video card and do not wish to spend the money on another, I am going to return this combo back to Fry's and get a mobo that will support my Vid Card. Plus, I don't believe I need all the PCI express slots.

Can anyone give me advise on a mobo based on the following:
1. Will support an AMD 64 3500 2.2 Ghz chip (939 pin)
2. Will support the ATI Radeon 9550 Card
3. I would like to OC the chip, which mobo's are most stable?
4. Is it advisable to use the Compaq case or should I consider using an ATX case?
5. Is there a chipset that is the better?

I apologize for the lengthly post but I'm at wit's end after 5 days of issues with this PC and two weeks worth of issues with HP concerning my HP Xeon I use for work. Any input is GREATLY appreciated. I plan on heading down to Fry's tomorrow morning and getting the new mobo so I can get my system up and running AND clean up all the PC parts out of my office!

Side Note - Does anyone know of software that will allow you to monitor your CPU temp while using the PC? Since this will be my first time OCing, I want to make sure my chip doesn't cook. The tech that came to my house said that OCing 10-20% was what he recommends. Any input?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:00 am

welcome to the forums TX_Renegade! ok, here is what I tell everyone who asks me what would be a good socket 939 mobo with AGP: I usually say making the upgrade to PCI-Express is a good thing, because of the main fact that AGP is fizzling away. I've been seeing fewer and fewer motherboards with socket 939 and AGP. Just taking a look at DFI and Asus' website, I've not found any such boards. I searched Newegg, a very respectable and "customercentric" e-tailer IMO, and the only board I found that is socket 939 and supports AGP is the Gigabyte K8U. I've known Gigabyte to put out some good boards. I don't know how much of an overclocker it is, but considering your constraints here I think this would be a decent choice. Eventually, you'll want to make the migration to PCI-E, based on support and also speed, not to mention you can get some pretty awesome cards for PCI-E. Video cards aren't that bad for PCI-E, unless you must have something like the X1800 by ATI or the 7800GTX by Nvidia. As a matter of fact, newegg has a Connect3d X800GTO for around $183 with $5 shipping. Also, if you do decide to upgrade to a board with PCI-E, and this is my own personal recommendation just based on experience: go with a DFI motherboard. Hands down they are the best on the market IMO. I would go with something like the Lanparty UT NF4, or if you don't need all the flash and extra features, the DFI Infinity Ultra (Infinity SLI if you plan on doing SLI). Don't worry about the post being so long, as you can see this one is quite lengthy, lol. As for the temp-monitoring software, DFI has DFI Guardian with its boards, and it's pretty effective, though all software monitors are off by a few degrees C. Hope this all helps

NOTE: some Compaqs are awful about integrating all the front panel wiring into one connector, some have the individual sets of front panel wires (for HDD, power LED, HDD LED, etc). if it's an integrated connector, I would ask either Apoptosis or Capper as to where you can get ahold of the color-coding scheme for the wiring, as I think it's a universal standard set forth by Intel that most everyone uses, whether it's Intel platform or not. Then you could just get the individual plastic connectors and wire it yourself. Just thought you should know, as I ran into this when I tried to put a MSI motherboard for socket A into my buddy's old Compaq case (a 7000 series) and found that about the front panel connector.

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:45 am

Killswitch,
Thanks for the info and the warm welcome. After doing some more reading on the forum, I was getting the impression that DFI and MSI mobos seem to have the best rep. It would be nice if I could find a decent mobo that has both the AGP and the PCI-E slots. I hate to part with my (relatively) new vid card so soon.

Tomorrow when I go to Fry's, I'll see if they have the Lanparty UT NF4. I don't mind spending the money upfront on a decent board now and doing the upgrades a bit at a time. (If I upgrade all at once and the wife finds out, I'll have to take her shopping or on a vaction to prove I love her more!

)

I do have two questions for you:
1. Have you heard of any compatability issues with the new PCI-E cards and older online games? (i.e Halo)
2. Can you elaborate on SLI? I haven't heard of this.

BTW - I found out I was having a compatability issue with that combo ECS board and my vid card. I plugged the original vid card into another PC using a Radeon 9200 and it worked. Ahhhhhhh, the joy of troubleshooting.

Once again, thanks for taking time to reply.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:58 am

Ask and ye shall recieve.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157081
939, AGP, PCI-X16.
It even comes with a special slot that can accept an adapter card for the upcoming M2 socket.

PCI-X16 is just an interface, the technology for the video cards themselves are the same and have no issues with software. Like... you could use your printer with a parallel port cable, or USB cable, makes no difference except one is faster.

SLI is just a method to use two nVidia graphics cards in tandem on one computer to achieve up to 100% more performance than a single card. Of course, 100% has never happened, though on rare occasions it has reached 90%+ on some games.

It requires a little connector thing that goes over the contacts on top of an SLI capable PCI-X16 nVidia card (almost all of them have it). And of course, the motherboard has to have an nVidia nForce SLI chipset and two PCI-X16 slots.

http://www.slizone.com/content/slizone/ ... _video.swf

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:19 am

Great!!! Thanks Kerii! I'll take a look at this one too.

That SLI feature looks interesting.

thx for the help.

Bal`thzar · Post by **Bal`thzar** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:56 am

Ok well here is the board I am using right now

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813180074

its a Soltek that I got refurbed from Chiefvalue for $40 the board itself is rock solid and should do you right

or here is the other option

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813130514

both overclock if that is what you want to do. The MSI has the best track record for stability though

if you want to get more options then the Neo2 Platinum is your best ticket.

Personally speaking I am not going to PCI-e until the dual cores come down in price significantly. They are going to come down as developments happen. Speaking for myself I picked up my MB and a 3200+ Venice for under $180 so an inexpensive upgrade is a good idea to transition to dual cores.

Just a heads up Keri the PCI-e bridge that you were showing is not used in the newest generation of MB and Vidcards its all being handled right on the MB I have seen some posts on other forums about the "missing" bridge and its gotten some people nervous.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:34 am

Bal`thzar wrote:Just a heads up Keri the PCI-e bridge that you were showing is not used in the newest generation of MB and Vidcards its all being handled right on the MB I have seen some posts on other forums about the "missing" bridge and its gotten some people nervous.

From what I've gathered it's mainly for lower end cards such as the 6600 and 6600LE which don't require as much bandwidth as faster GPUs.

For high end cards like the 6600GT, 6800 series, and 7800 series though, the PCI-Express bus just doesn't cut it, and a direct connection between the cards via an SLI bridge connector offers much faster data transfer and obviously better performance. At least, that's according to nVidia. Take what you will from it.

I do remember nVidia mentioning something about trying to reduce costs by trying to eliminate the SLI bridge and paddle, but haven't heard much about it recently. Think you could PM me or post the links here if it's not breaking any forum rules? I'd be very interested in seeing benchmarks. In all honesty though, I don't see the SLI bridge disappearing anytime soon, especially since nVidia could have made SLI without the bridge connector in the first place when they were hammering out the architechture. The bridge was obviously made to make up for what PCI-Express lacked. But if they do manage to do away with the bridge without hindering performance, then kudos to them.

Anyways, JetWay already eliminated the paddle with their own 3x PCI-X16 slots solution, and the hard-wired slots are far better (faster) than any paddle based system, and it's cheaper to manufacture to boot!

I really hope this layout catches on with other motherboard manufacturers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813153030

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:06 am

TX_Renegade wrote: I do have two questions for you:
1. Have you heard of any compatability issues with the new PCI-E cards and older online games? (i.e Halo)
2. Can you elaborate on SLI? I haven't heard of this.

alrighty, well, I've not heard any problems concerning compatibility with older games. I'm pretty sure the newer PCI-E cards will support the older graphics engines of older games. Concerning SLI, SLI is Scalable Link Interface, which enables higher resolution and smoother game-play by using two video cards of the same spec and vendor, joined together with an SLI bridge. Personally, SLI is overrated because of one big reason: though you have 2 PCI-E x16 slots, when you go SLI, it halves the speed of each slot, making them each x8 instead of x16 (8 lanes instead of 16 each). Still powerful, but maybe way too expensive for you to upgrade to. Personally, if you go with a board that has 1 PCI-E x16 slot, you'll be fine. SLI generally shines with some high-end cards, like the 7800GTX and the X800XT. Just go with a good ATI or Nvidia card from a decent manufacturer (BFG, Leadtek, or XFX for Nvidia; Sapphire for ATI, who is the primary manufacturer of their cards) and you'll have something. I warn you though, all this is very addicting, and I caught the bug, lol. I'm looking at around 2K or so for my system, maybe a little less, but I'm also going from scratch. Also, one more thing I forgot to tell you, you will want to upgrade your Power Supply if you go any higher than what was in your Compaq. I would go with a 450W bare minimum, I recommend 500W or 550W just due to how much power these new video cards can consume, not to mention the memory (which you might need to upgrade since most newer boards require DDR-400 and up, especially on the DFI boards which like fairly high-end DDR). In a word, forget about what came with your Compaq (except the case if you don't have an integrated front panel connector, which you can still put into individual connectors, wish I could find that universal wiring diagram, lol). Keep in mind that Lanparty UT NF4 board is about 130 bucks, where if they have the Infinity Ultra (if you don't want SLI) or Infinity SLI (if you do want it) is around $100 and $125 respectively (Lanpart UT SLI-DR is around $150-$189). Good luck with dealing with the wife, lol. I had a girlfriend who was like that once, wouldn't let me spend my own money

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:07 am

OK, here I sit in a dilemma. I went to Fry's to check out their MBs. Listed below is what I found for each MB.

1. DFI Lan Party UT NF4 - Instock - Only PCI-E graphics
2. DFI NF3 - Instock - takes a 737(?) chip. I have 939.
3. ASRock 939 Dual-Sata2 - Not in stock.

I didn't purchase anything yet. I explained to the salesman the probs I was having with the graphics card. He told me to check and see if the Bios was trying to read the PCI-E slot first. If so, switch to the VGA. If that doesn't do it, there's definately a card compatability issue. So, I made the change and, yes, there's a card compatability issie.

Now I have to decided if
1. I keep my current board and get a PCI-E card (Then I have to figure out if I should go ATI or NIVIDA) Any suggestions?

OR

2. Purchase the DFI LAN Party NF4 AND a new PCI-E card.

Since I HAVE to get a PCI-E card for my 939 PIN processor, (can't wait for internet order. Got to get it running today.) I'm debating just upgrading to a MB without the AGP Slot.

They had other brands there but I'm not real familiar with them. (ASUS, ABIT, Gigabyte, ECS, etc.)

I was wondering what the veterans think about the situation. Bite the bullet and go for Option 2?

I'm gonna think about it for a few.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:23 am

Well, here is also what I tell everyone: it all boils down to what you're going to do with your system. Very likely is the fact that the Athlon you currently have will not be enough to play most of today's newer, graphics-demanding games like Battlefield 2, Half Life 2, Doom 3, World of Warcraft, etc. (these newer games are both graphics card and processor-demanding definitely). If you want to get the most out of your gaming and OC experience, then I would definitely go with Option 2. Athlon XP's are not overclockable past week 39, as they locked their chips, but the only way you can tell that is look at the chip and see (I forget which numbers dictate the week, but if you happen to take the processor out and whatnot, record the whole model number, which starts with AX or something like that, and post it). Also, the Athlon you have has a lidless processor core, so heat dispersion will be a problem just due to the surface area (would be worried that so much heat in a small area would crack the core and render the chip worthless). If you have some money to spend, then I would make the upgrade and have something powerful that will last you for a long while. If you make the upgrade you won't be disappointed, just so long as that Compaq case's front panel connector is compatible with the board, and you get some case fans to keep er cool (you don't want to fry your new system now do you , lol; just remember heat increases greatly the more you overclock, and even if you don't it's recommended you go with case fans and a good aftermarket CPU cooling solution). Like I said, PC addiction is rough, rofl

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:45 am

Killswitch,
Too late I've got the itch after one night of browsing! lol

Yeah, I've decided to scratch the DFI NF4 as an option after reading the post between you, vstrom, and kenc51 (scrapping Intel for AMD)? I read in there about the MB needing more power. So, I'm going to wait until I build from scratch and get a proper case, PS, etc.

So, I think right now I'll just go out and get a nice PCI-E Graphics card and keep the MB I have currently. (Unless of course, I see something that strikes my fancy while I'm there! lol) Then I'll worry about everything else while I have time to do some research. (and it looks like save some $$$$)

I'll have to look into the OCing of the chip. You mentioned that Athlon XPs were locked. Are those the same as The Athlon 64? 'Cause that's what I have (3500 2.2 Ghz). I'm hoping I won't have any probs with OCing if I do some research and get the software to monitor the temps, etc. Plus, I purchased a higher end CPU fan than what came with the chip(Thermaltake Silent 939 K8 with Heatpipe cooling technology).

Anyhow, Graphics issue first, OC l8tr!

I'm out to get the new PCI-E. Thanks to everyone for their input and help.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:51 am

Athlon 64's aren't locked whatsoever, which is why most of us here like em soo soo much when it comes to AMD, lol. The whole line of Athlon 64's are great overclockers too, with some being better than others, but overall excellent at OC'ing. Well, it would appear you're one of us now, lol: you caught the bug, and it will itch more and more and more and more and more, rofl. Good luck scratching it

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:59 am

TX_Renegade wrote:Anyhow, Graphics issue first, OC l8tr! I'm out to get the new PCI-E. Thanks to everyone for their input and help.

That's quite the itch you've got, can't even wait for internet order? NewEgg takes at MOST 5 days, usually only 2-3, sometimes even 1. I think you've set a new record, asking a question about what to buy and running out to buy in just 38 minutes without even a reply to your question, lol.

Well, hope you don't get ripped off on the graphics card, retail stores are notorious for overpriced cards (even Fry's), often $100 to $200 more than what they sell for online.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:10 pm

Isn't that the truth, lol. Best Buy charges something like that as well, all in a vain attempt to gain a lot of margin. Normal people wouldn't buy a high-end card like a 7800GTX, much less pay 200 bucks more for it in store. The enthusiast knows better, always purchase online because more often than not it's a lot cheaper, whatever you might get. Hell, I've been that impatient before, but hey, you live and learn right

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:24 pm

Hmmmmmm, I seem to be having a problem booting up.

I purchased an Abit KN8 MB. I've hooked everything up and was able to get into the Bios but when it tries to get into the OS it keeps looping through the posts. It doesn't matter if I select Safe Mode or not. Has anyone experienced this b4?

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:39 pm

Oh yeah, I know that one when I see it: when you try to boot into the OS, it restarts, right? Well, that's a sign of incompatible or bad memory. the best thing to do there is to visit Abit's website, type in the mobo model number, and search for the correct memory. It can also be that you need to set up your memory, CPU frequency and multiplier in BIOS. Also, make sure everything is seated correctly (reseat if necessary). I had a similar problem with a MSI motherboard I got once for a customer. I got it as a bundle from Bzboyz.com (the absolute crappiest e-tailer on the web, never go to them for business) and the memory they sent with the board wasn't even compatible. I had to buy a stick of Corsair ValueSelect for everything to work right. Just check that first, and if the memory you're using isn't compatible with the board, then check their list for what might be compatible. Good luck with it all

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:46 pm

OK, I'll check it out. I thought I would have been good. I have two Corsair 512 XMS 3200 400Ghz. I'm also in the process of repairing my XP incase that was the issue.

***Yep, it's supported***

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:46 pm

probably the best thing to do is return that ABIT board

TX_Renegade · Post by **TX_Renegade** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:50 pm

lol, I hear ya capper. Kerii was already givin' me a hard time for being so impatient.

Of course, there's a loooooooooong story behind the root of that impatience. Trust me.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:53 pm

I'm not a big fan of Fry's...... they do seem to hire the mentally challenged though.
When i9t comes to motherboards I refuse to buy from Fry's. I've gotten home and found broken boards, and boards of different brands in supposed "sealed" boxes.
When it comes to pricce, you can buy from the Egg, get next day shipping, and probably save money.