Can we build it?

Jakey The Avatar · Post by **Jakey The Avatar** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:38 pm

Until recently my computer met my needs, and I had no complaints. Then I bought a few new games, and now it begins to show its age. I'm looking to build a computer, the first one that I've built this millennium. I bought my last two computers retail; I had a great job, plenty disposable income, and plenty of free time.

I don't have that job anymore, so I'm working on a budget of $1,500.

Below is what I've picked out so far. My concerns are:
1. How well will it upgrade to future tech?
2. How well will it game?
3. How well do the parts match?
4. How easy will it be to setup, and overclock?

Mobo - ASUS P5E
Processor - Intel Q9300 "Yorkfield"
Video - XFX GeForce 9600GT 512MB
PSU - ABS Tagan BZ800
RAM - Crucial 4GB (2GBx2)
HD - Western Digital 500GB 72,00 rpm
Case - by Apevia
Fan - ZEROtherm Nirvana
add in Windows XP 64 for good measure
and a few miscellaneous odds and ends and I'm right around my limit of $1,500.

My thoughts on why I've chosen what I have chosen...

I chose the Asus motherboard because it seems like the good folks at ASUS have done their best to make overclocking this board foolproof. Now, as everyone knows, as soon as something is made foolproof we will make a greater fool. However, I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
The new Intel 45nm processors look like they are the "hot stuff"
I picked the XFX card because I love their warranties.
ABS power supply looks easy to set up, and really sexy for a power supply.
RAM is what newegg has that I know is compatible. It's cheap and will do for a start. I'll upgrade to some HQ Corsair later on.

So folks, think this will do it for me? Anything jump out as wrong? Did I make any horrible mistakes? Let me know. I'm anxious to hear what you good folks here think.

bandieramonte · Post by **bandieramonte** » Mon May 12, 2008 7:35 pm

2. I would not expect much from a XFX GeForce 9600GT 512MB, since this card is aimed towards the mid range market. I would go for a XFX 8800 gt since they are cheap (only $20 more) and perform better than a 9600 gt. The later would allow to play the latest games the way they are meant to be played at mid resolutions and mid high settings, while a 8800 gt may boost a bit more the performance attaining playable frame rates at better graphical settings.

3.The parts do a good match, but I would really change the RAM memory since 667 Mhz is just too old and the motherboard you picked recommends 800 Mhz ram mem. IF you really want 4 GB of ram memory, you would need a 64 bit OS. Otherwise, you may choose faster and better 2 GB ram memory. I recommend this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820146726 for 4GB and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820146673 for 2 GB, since the Mushkin offers good quality and low timings, which will boost your system's performance.

Also, if you want a Quad core, why not just get the Q6600 and overclock? It will offer you better performance for less price.

4. The Q6600 has its sweet spot for overclocking at around 3.4 Ghz. It's easy to overclock here, provided you have a good air CPU cooler or water cooling. I'm not sure about the cooler you chose. This link is a very good reference for picking good CPU air coolers http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/sh ... i=3005&p=4

All these components are pretty easy to setup. You just have to read the manuals that will come with them.

Alathald · Post by **Alathald** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:12 pm

If this a gaming rig I'd suggest going with the Q6600, the 8800GTS 512MB, and a Corsair PSU.

As for the memory, go with Super Talent 800mhz. I am more than happy with mine and after a bit of research I found out they are NOT an off brand, they're actually the OEM for some of the bigger names out there. Plus they have a great price (2x2Gb - $59.99 after rebate)! Oh and mine at least overclock like mad!

And the OS? Personally I'd go with Vista 64bit Business not XP 64bit for the simple fact that driver support is much better. I have Vista 64bit and it seems to work well for gaming but that's really all I use it for...Ubuntu is my main OS (a very intuitive and easy to use OS).

Those choices are all high quality components that'll easily give you as good if not better performance for a few dollars less if my math holds...

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:36 pm

I agree that although the Q9xxx are "new," the Q6600 still represents better value for your money. Don't spend too much on one part. Get an 8800GT. XP x64 doesn't have as many driver problems (or so I've been sternly told at other forums for saying that drivers are a reason to NOT use XP x64, that OS still has its defenders I guess) but I'd say Vista because of future drivers and devices being more likely to support Vista x64 as opposed to XP x64, which I would imagine is getting shown the door with regular 32-bit XP.

stopthekilling77 · Post by **stopthekilling77** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:36 pm

i agree with these three! if you get a Q6600 you could get a nice price/performance point.

but if you go with the Q9300 and can stand paying the extra, youre at a 45nm fabrication vs the Q6600's 65nm = less heat = higher overclocking potential

be sure to check out the latest LR review on comparing coolers! you might change your mind on the Nirvana http://www.legitreviews.com/article/701/1/

other than that yes, i'd go with a Corsair 620HX if it suits your cable needs (modular though so you should be good, i'll let Dicecca chime in on this one :D )

Vista 64 bit for the facts that it both supports 4gb of ram PLUS DX10.

Mumm · Post by **Mumm** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:26 pm

I echo the comments made about the Q6600 GPU aswell. I just picked one up from NewEgg about a week ago and it is the G0 stepping even if they don't state it in the listing. The Q6600 has proven itself time and time again for overclockers. You will save yourself about $50 too to add somewhere else. Your choice of air coolers is also a good match with either CPU.

As far as the OS goes I'd stay away from XP64. While I understand you want to make use of all 4 gb of ram, the driver issues are not worth the headache. Either stick to XP Pro 32 bit or go Vista 64. I run the Ultimate version on my rig and I've been happy for the most part. Vista also offers DX10 though so down the road you are probably better off with Vista64.

I've never built a machine with that brand of case but I do know why many like full tower cases. I am the same way. Believe it or not I actually found a mid that for the money does really well. Check out Cooler Masters RC-690-KKN1-GP. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119137 It is a bit heavy going to steel over aluminum and weighs iin at about 25 lbs but for under $100 I was blown away at the quality. The air flow in it is top notch. It also is pre set up for an external watercooling system with holes and rubber grommets. The HD racks also have anti-vibration pads. Behind the mobo tray is about a half inch gap between it and the outer wall to run cables and such. You can also place an 80mm fan on the underside of the CPU. I built a machine for my uncle a few weeks ago with it and I I loved it. The only bad thing I saw was the power switch design. It falls short inlight of the rest of the case and isnt as easy to press as it should be.

The money you save from the CPU and case would be about enough to get you a better video card or a WD 10k RPM Raptor drive. For video I would suggest this beast: PALiT NE/880TSXT302 GeForce 8800GT SONIC 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814261012

You could get one or the other with the 2 swaps I suggested. Take your pick. The video card is the bigger upgrade though in my opinion and it can be overclocked for more. See the review here on LR for more info.

To go over you main questions though:

1. XP64 would be rough down the road to upgrade parts as support for that OS is minimal.
2. Depending on what res you game at the card you have picked may show some weaknesses but it will make any current title "playable". A 10k rpm hard drive will show better perfomance results.
3. Functionwise you should have plenty of power and cooling with you listed parts. Could even run SLI.
4. Overclocking with the Q6600 would be easier and there is tons of information all around to be had with that CPU and the P5 ASUS mobo. If you change to the case I suggested get an extention cable for the 8 pin CPU power connector. (maybe $5)

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing!

martini161 · Post by **martini161** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:43 am

i would recomend this memory if you want 4gb: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820145176
i also echo the 8800gt and q6600 suggestions. i have both of those in my rig and they handle i everything i throw at them at 1440x900 with at lest 2xaa(crysis) and usally more (i can run cod all max with 4xaa, CoH with all dx10 settings 16xq aa)

Jakey The Avatar · Post by **Jakey The Avatar** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:05 pm

Wow, thanks for everything. I must say that the advice here is not only friendly but helpful; truly a rarity on the internet these days. The fact that so many people agree on the best value for the money has caused my confidence to skyrocket! So, now that I've had a chance to absorb as much as I can, do some more research and pricing, I present v2.0 of my list.

Mobo - Still the Asus P5e
CPU - Intel's Q6600
cooled by a Scythe SCZP-1000
RAM - Super Talent 4GB DDR2 800
Video - PALiT 8800GT SONIC 1GB
running Vista Ultimate 64
on a 74GB WD Raptor
with a 500GB Seagate for storage
powered by CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX
inside the NZXT Tempest
with an extension cable for CPU power connector.

All said and done with S&H I'm looking at $1,504.52 (not counting $85 worth of mail in rebates). Thanks to the wonderful people here, I now have confidence that I'm getting the best bang for my buck, and I only have one concern.

Will the Corsair PSU provide enough power for me to add another HD and SLI another card at some point in the future?

martini161 · Post by **martini161** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:36 pm

yes, unless hardrives start consuming more power down the road, wich they wont, as that would be backwards evolution

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:37 pm

Yes the Corsair 620 will be able to power pretty much anything you want to throw at it

You should check out the Noctua NH-U12P, it's a great cooler at pretty damn quiet noise levels.

Dan

KPRROK · Post by **KPRROK** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:38 pm

Jakey The Avatar wrote:Will the Corsair PSU provide enough power for me to add another HD and SLI another card at some point in the future?

Unless I'm mistaken, that's an Intel chipset (P35) motherboard and it WILL NOT support SLI. It will only support Crossfire (ATI cards).

KPRROK

stopthekilling77 · Post by **stopthekilling77** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:08 pm

Jakey The Avatar wrote: RAM - Super Talent 4GB DDR2 800

just so you know, you won't be able to get this MIR due to the time constraints, unless it shows up at your doorstep tomorrow or the day after, well just read the rebate thing http://images10.newegg.com/uploadfilesf ... 08tl24.pdf
its not working on firefox right now x.x

just a heads up!

bandieramonte · Post by **bandieramonte** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:27 pm

KPRROK wrote:
Jakey The Avatar wrote:Will the Corsair PSU provide enough power for me to add another HD and SLI another card at some point in the future?
Unless I'm mistaken, that's an Intel chipset (P35) motherboard and it WILL NOT support SLI. It will only support Crossfire (ATI cards).

KPRROK

Oops you are right, we missed to tell you that this mobo wont be able to support SLI. You will need an Nvidia Chipset for this. So you got 3 good choices:
1) Keep that motherboard and just that GPU, and enjoy most games at their high settings at playable frame rates.
2) Change the motherboard by the Nforce 780i SLI, which costs roughly $30 more (to support SLI) , and then buy another GPU and SLI
3) Keep this motherboard and instead of buying the 8800 gt 1GB, buy one ATI HD 3870X2, this card costs cheaper than two 8800 gt 1GB while it performs marginally worse, but much better than a single 8800 gt 1GB. Also, if you feel too greedy, you can buy another 3870 X2 and CrossfireX, that's 4 GPU's for brutal performance, while of course, it's the most expensive choice.

See, I've ordered the choices from cheapest while of lesser performance, to the more expensive and performer choice.

These are my recommendations, possibly someone else has got some better ideas.

bandieramonte · Post by **bandieramonte** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:28 pm

-----
(Sorry for reposting, something strange happened while I was editing my previous post.)

Jakey The Avatar · Post by **Jakey The Avatar** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:08 pm

Oh bugger. And here I thought everything was settled. I should have mentioned that I would want to SLI at a later point in time in my first post, sorry guys

Now I have a hard decision to make. I'll have to think this over a bit... any advice is of course always welcome

DaIceMan · Post by **DaIceMan** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 pm

not to down your gig or anything, but I would look at a few different options for that kind of budget. This is all my opinion, take it, use it, toss it out the windows, whatever.

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131232
Proc: Q6600 isn't a horrible choice, I'm personally rebuilding my machines right now with an E8400
Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835186134
Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820609218 cheaper, faster
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6814150261
OS: V64 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6832116493
system HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136033 not a fan of the Raptor's myself, but that's your call
storage HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136218 smokin' fast drive.
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817703009 hard to beat the price after rebate now. I paid $249 for mine.

$1292 before shipping and rebates. Again, ditch the raptor for a cheaper system drive and save $50-60 As for the video card, I usually recommend the 8800GTS G92. More steam processors and higher clock than the Palit. PSU, I have 2 of them and absolutely love them. Again, this is my opinion, based roughly on your starting point. Use it, toss it, doesn't matter to me. Good luck, and let's see pictures and numbers when you get it built.

Alathald · Post by **Alathald** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:18 pm

That's a helluva deal on a helluva PSU, nice find!

All great stuff and leaves you with the spare cash to upgrade right away if you like...maybe a second raptor in RAID0 or go for 8gb of RAM...

Great mobo as well, can't do much better for that price...oh crap, now I want to do a new build too >_<

Mumm · Post by **Mumm** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:21 am

Jakey The Avatar wrote: Mobo - Still the Asus P5e
CPU - Intel's Q6600
cooled by a Scythe SCZP-1000
RAM - Super Talent 4GB DDR2 800
Video - PALiT 8800GT SONIC 1GB
running Vista Ultimate 64
on a 74GB WD Raptor
with a 500GB Seagate for storage
powered by CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX
inside the NZXT Tempest
with an extension cable for CPU power connector.

Stick to what you have and swap the Mobo out for and SLI one if you want that option for later. You could get a number of brands but stick to the 780i or the 790i chipset. They start trimming OC options often with the 750 chips. Shouldn't be much of an issue with the price range you have sofar. I've had great luck with eVga mobos but if you want to stick to ASUS get the P5N-T. ( http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=3495 ) I think NewEgg has "Open-Box" ones but I never buy that stuff when it comes to MoBos. Thats just me though.

For the money the Palit is still a superior video card. It actually has the same core clock (650 MHz) rate as the 8800GTS and only 12 less stream processors. The difference in the memory bandwidth is so slight you would never see it. But you would the missing 512mb of ram! Not to mention the fact that the Palit has one of, if not THE best stock cooling set ups around. And it $10 cheaper...

The RAM you have is fine too. I built my last system with OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820227269 to use in a eVga MoBo . I see a lot of guys with the OCZ Raptor editons too.

On the same controler I really doubt any 7,200 rpm drive will beat the Raptors. Yeah its nly a 1.5gb sata drive but run HD Tach and check your speeds. Some people don't like the noise however. Me, I don't care. The less I have to wait for stuff to load the better.

Its good to have options though...

DaIceMan · Post by **DaIceMan** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:26 pm

Alathald wrote:That's a helluva deal on a helluva PSU, nice find!

All great stuff and leaves you with the spare cash to upgrade right away if you like...maybe a second raptor in RAID0 or go for 8gb of RAM...

Great mobo as well, can't do much better for that price...oh crap, now I want to do a new build too >_<

LOL. yeah, I actually was lucky enough to snag an E8400 at CompUSA for $140 on Friday night, so I actually AM doing a new build right now.

martini161 · Post by **martini161** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:51 pm

LUCKY! i want one of those chips!

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