What Memory

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:57 pm

Whats the best memory i can put in my asus p4s800, 2.6 p4 northwood, msi gefroce 6800gt, 550 psu.

As i only have 1 gig ( 2x512 ) of cheapo elixer memory which is DDR400 pc3200 .

Can i put some performance memory in like crucial's ballistics memory ?

I do alot of gaming and photo editing etc ? ?

Would more than 1 gig be better or overkill ? ?

can i put pc4000 in mine or just pc3200

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:45 am

Anybody ? ? ?

rhino56 · Post by **rhino56** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:52 am

yes you can, but i doubt you would see much better performance.
put your money into a new mobo and faster chip then think about new ram

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:21 pm

the only ways to improve memory performance are to increese the buss speed or lower the timings. To do this you need to either overclock your frontside buss i.e. going from 200fsb to 215fsb which would overclock your processor and alow you to run 1:1 with pc3500 or ddr433. The other way to go is to get high quality memroy that is stable at low latency. Your memroy most likly runs at 3-3-3-10 if you were to get some TCCD you could run it at 2-2-2-6 at the same FSB and that would also increase your memory bandwidth.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:51 pm

Do you plan on overclocking your cpu???

If you do... then set your ram to ddr266 and up your fsb --> find the max your cpu can do now... Then decide what ram to get

memory timings only increase performance a little with intel cpu's
Increasing the fsb (and ram) is where the money is ;)

As infinit said... TCCD ram would be the way to go... It allows you to run 2,2,2,5 upto ~ddr420 and 2.5,2,2,5 to ~ddr500 and above!

If your cpu can do it -> ddr500 would give you ~3.2Ghz (tccd can do higher aswell - over 600mhz in some cases!)

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:27 pm

Hi again

I'm already running at 215 fsb ! sorry forgot to say that bit !

my 2.6 is running at 2.8

My memory is running the same as my chip fsb, 215

How do i lock my memory so i can take my chip higher ?

Thanks guys for helping me out !

infinitevalence · Post by **infinitevalence** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:37 pm

with intel systems you dont want to do that, because the memory controler is seperate from the cpu there is a big penelty for running the memroy async with the cpu.

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:48 pm

how can i take my chip higher then ? just keep upping the fsb ? dont think my cheap memory will take it ?

I can set it on auto or 333 or 400, but as i up the fsb so does the 333 400, i'm at 415 now on my mem ?

i can also change mem in a seperate menu.....it's on spd whatever that is or you can switch it to manual and mess with the timmings but dont know how

Confused now can you explain ?

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:44 pm

OK... When I said to lower your ram, this is just to TEST how high you can get with your cpu! If you set you ram to 333,(which really is 166) then you can increase the fsb of you cpu without having to worry about the ram crapping out

If you find the highest your cpu can do, then you can decide on what ram to get.. As infiinit said - Intel cpu's require the ram to run the same as your fsb to show any benefit.

The ram options are the timings.. SPD means they are automatically set via a chip on each ram stick... If your ram is cheap stuff, I doubt you will be able to lower the timings much, if at all... Also you won't be able to lower them enough to see any benefits...

To make this easier.... What is your budget for ram??? TCCD ram can be expensive! but it is a great all-rounder ram.. it can do very tight timings @ ~400Mhz and good timings till about ~500Mhz (some will go higher), OCZ elite runs @ ddr600

But since the ram is a little expensive..depending on your budget... You could get cheaper pc 4000 ram (runs @ ddr500)... or get whatever ram runs @ the same speed as you cpu can do... The slightly cheaper ram is still good (b4 tccd we all taught it was great).. the only thing is it usualy will do looser timings..
Timing arn't too important with Intel because as infinite said.. the memory controller is on the motherboard... not like amd which has the controller IN THE CPU! (so amd is more sensitive to memory)

I hope this clears some things up for you

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:20 pm

I'd say about £130 maybe more myself for the ram !

How do i lock my memory at 133 then ? so ican find the max of my cpu ?

I know i'm a dumb ass but cheers for the kindness

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:42 pm

Your mobo is a p4s800 yes?

Then in your bios, on the same page as the overclocking section (Jumpperfree config)... you should see DRAM Frequency... set it to the lowest value 266... then make sure apg is set to 33.3/66.6

Now you can up the FSB

-

£130 (pounds) ? are you from the UK?

If so G.Skill F1-3200BWU2-1GBGH (TCCD) would cost you about that
see here
this can do ddr500 or more and 2,2,2,5 timings @ ddr400

For about ~£10 more you can get 1Gb DDR PC3200 OCZ Platinum Rev.2 - which is very nice ram... but some say that G.Skill is just as good.. can be got at same link

You may find better/cheaper ram... that's the first google results i got from UK sites...

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:17 pm

i cant change/ lock agp frequency like you said ?

I cant see dram frequency either ?

My mobo is a p4s800

i could used to get my fsb upto 240 which gave me about 3.1ghz but it just wont go that high no more it just locks up justbefore the xp screen logo screen .

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:55 pm

in the section where you have your cpu frequency there should be agp/pci ratio it's set to "by SPD" by default. if you change it to manual- you can set it to 66/33. the reason why your rig loks up is eighter becouse the cpu and/or the north bridge overheats or simply because your ram cannot operate at the same tight timings as at lower frequencies or both. so you should loosen your ram's timings (to what parameters is up to the ram actually -depends on the make and kind) now if you are not sure what we are talking about then i suggest to hold on with OC-ing and read much more about the subject 'cause you can permanently damage your cpu, motherboard and possibly psu. the whole thing is much more complex then just raising the fsb. ram, cpu frequencies- all have to be in certain proportions so to speak. it's not as simple as OC-ing a video card. before you even start you should be able to monitor your temps with some kind of probe or software (like motherboard monitor) and only change frequencies in small increments (like 5 hz) at the time ,allways testing (benchmarking -ex: sisoft sandra, pcmark05) the new settings and making notes on performance changes and possible problems.

Post by **Apoptosis** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:59 pm

Having 1GB or more of memory is a good thing. You can mix and match your memory, but remember it will only perform as good as your weakest link. Going out and buying Corsair XMS XL memory or Crucial's Ballistix memory might be a waste if you have to match it to cheap generic memory.

I run 2GB of memory and notice the improvment of 2gb over 1gb when playing BattleField 2 and when doing DVD Encoding.

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:48 am

sbohdan wrote:in the section where you have your cpu frequency there should be agp/pci ratio it's set to "by SPD" by default. if you change it to manual- you can set it to 66/33. the reason why your rig loks up is eighter becouse the cpu and/or the north bridge overheats or simply because your ram cannot operate at the same tight timings as at lower frequencies or both. so you should loosen your ram's timings (to what parameters is up to the ram actually -depends on the make and kind) now if you are not sure what we are talking about then i suggest to hold on with OC-ing and read much more about the subject 'cause you can permanently damage your cpu, motherboard and possibly psu. the whole thing is much more complex then just raising the fsb. ram, cpu frequencies- all have to be in certain proportions so to speak. it's not as simple as OC-ing a video card. before you even start you should be able to monitor your temps with some kind of probe or software (like motherboard monitor) and only change frequencies in small increments (like 5 hz) at the time ,allways testing (benchmarking -ex: sisoft sandra, pcmark05) the new settings and making notes on performance changes and possible problems.

I undertsand what your sayng but i havent got a option to lock agp/pci frequency !

I have no problems with coolong what so ever at the mo either, i have a thermaltake case with 4x12cm fans and a side fan, and a freezer cooler on my chip !
these are the options i have

cpu frequency multliple
cpu external frequency
memory frequency auto 333 or 400
cpu volt core
ddr voltage adjustment
cpu level 2 cache

sdram configuration spd or manual
cas latency
ras to cas latency
ras precharge time
ras active time
chipset clock mode synchronous or asynchronous
sdram command lead off time
graphics aperture size
agp speed 4 or 8x
fast write
video memory mode uc or uswc
delay transaction
pci/vga palette snoop
pci latency timer
primary vga bios
hyper threading

hope this helps

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:15 pm

that board has a SIS648FX chipset... I'm not sure if it has an option to lock the apg/pci? 215fsb is where a mobo craps out when the pci/agp bus isn't locked
Try updating the Bios!

If it doesn't, then get 1GB of ddr 3200 - 2GB in total will serve you well

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:57 pm

im on the latest bios which is revision 1010 there's is a beta bios file but i havent tries that yet !

As for the memoery i already have 1 gig of pc3200 ( 2x512's ).....but it's only cheap exlier which is really

nanya technology
pc3200(200mhz)
ddr400
m2u51264ds8hb3g-5t

What i was thinking was if 215fsb is where my memory craps out, wouldnt faster memory take the higher fsb, therefore i would be able to take my chip higher ? ?

If i go the other way and buy a new board and chip can somebody reccomend some good boards ? ?

I'm quite into asus boards and i would be using a pentium 4, 3 ghz or higher perhaps a 3.2, 3.4 ! !

I've got some cash burning in my pocket see lol

Cheers Guys for all the help

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:49 pm

andy2583 wrote:What i was thinking was if 215fsb is where my memory craps out, wouldnt faster memory take the higher fsb, therefore i would be able to take my chip higher ? ?

IF you use your current ram alongside faster ram, the current stuff will hold it back. ie. NO.. Also IF your board cannot lock the pci/agp bus, then faster ram will not help
When you increase the fsb of your cpu, you also increase your pci/agp at the same rate...Devices like your sound card, hdd controller and such(which are on the pci bus) crap out..

Upgrading to another motherboard is ok, if you are planning on keeping your current cpu, and you MUST overclock it! -> be warned, even the best motherboards sometimes don't overclock so well!

Overclocking is 10% knowledge, 10% is quality parts (as by it's very nature your stressing ALL components), and 80% luck!!!
Nearly all cpu's can overclock enough to get a noticeable increase in performance, but you need good parts to support it

If your tlaking about upgrading your cpu aswell, with some new ram and even a motherboard? then don't got for a socket 478 system (old technology), go for a good mobo, ram combo (amd or intel), and a cheap cpu, then overclock the cpu, and upgrade later to a faster cpu -> your money will go further...

The main thing to remember is overclocking voids your warranty for a reason... (but if you can afford it.. happy days)

DanielDev · Post by **DanielDev** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:56 am

if u cant lock the agp/pci i would buy another board.
If u buy another mobo, and u still got money to burn, i would buy new everything:

- new cpu
- new mobo
- new ram

and possibly also a new powersupply.
If u want to buy all this new, ur almost building a new computer, and there is lots of choice of everything.
You can stay with intel, u can go with AMD.
No matter wich1 you will choose, if u want something "really" new,
u rpobably gotta buy a new videocard too, since all new mobo's got pci-express and u still got agp.

If u dont want to buy new videocard, u should probably stay with Intel socket 478.
Your current board is 1 of them 2,
this way u can buy everything "new" and gain lots of performance,
but everything will still be the same (as a setup) and u wont have to buy a new vga.

So in the end it all comes down to 1 of these questions the questions:

Do you want to buy a new vga on top of a new mobo, cpu and ram, for a brand new stup.
or
Do you want to buy just a mobo, and maybe a new cpu and ram for a little bit older setup wich can be also very good, without the need of a new vga.

If u really dont know, tell me how much money u got to spend, and i'll help you to make the choice.

andy2583 · Post by **andy2583** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:15 pm

Would like to keep my graphics card i have, i have been very pleased with it and it seems to do the job well !

So it would be new mobo, chip and ram !

Cheers for the help !