LCD Monitors & Response Times

jtm55 · Post by **jtm55** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:03 pm

Hi All,

I have a question concerning LCD Monitors & response times. As I'm sure most of you are aware of, most Manufacturers of these monitors list their response times im the ms range & it's usually measuring the gray to gray response time.

My question is wouldn't it be more accurate to list the response time of these monitors in the time it takes for them to go from black to white or on & off?

I'm stumped, as I'm considering purchasing an LCD, but want one that's going to be good for gaming.

All help provided is greatly appreciated.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:31 pm

I think that you bring up a very valid point....but the industry uses grey to grey, nothing we can do about it. I've got a pair of Dell monitors, they are both 12ms repsonse, and both are great for gaming.... in my opinion, 16ms is as high as you will want to go.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:33 pm

Responce times don't mean diddly squat... Manufacturers all have their own way of calculating responce times.
With cheap monitors the graphics get blurred. This was the case with older-gen monitors too. Then they said quicker responce times would help, and did, so everyone just tought the lower the ms. the better. Lower is better but you can get bad 12ms monitors!

jtm55 wrote:My question is wouldn't it be more accurate to list the response time of these monitors in the time it takes for them to go from black to white or on & off?

As far as I know it how fast each pixel can be refreshed!

jtm55 · Post by **jtm55** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:59 pm

Hi All,

Thanks for the input. Capper, could you tell me which Dell Monitors you recommend? Thanks.

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:22 pm

I have the high end ones... i have the 2005FPW and the 2405FPW, both are incredible.. While their monitors are the best, their customer service is the owrst I've ever seen.

jtm55 · Post by **jtm55** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:31 pm

Thanks Capper, I've heard this as well about Dell's Customer Service.

Bigedmond · Post by **Bigedmond** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:11 pm

When i was a dell customer, i never got service. Just told to change my startup configuration in MSconfig.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Gray-to-gray should be a better measure of how well an LCD does in games.

It's a lot quicker for a pixel to go from black (off / nothing) to white (on / full power) than it is to shift from one color to another.

Yeah, it's more accurate to measure black to white, but in all regards, that spec is just as if not more pointless seeing as the only applications that really stress response time (games) rarely have such dramatic color shifts. That, and different manufacturers' monitors handle gray-to-gray differently as well.

PCWorld did a very good article on the subject some weeks/months ago (I have a print subscription), it might be online too, I don't know.

I do have a PDF link that I saved from searching on the thing ViewSonic was working on in the article called Amplified Impluse Technology.
http://www.viewsonic.com/pdf/wp_4msResp ... 050205.pdf

Basically they jumpstart the pixel with a very brief full on signal and then provide the gradual shift signal, or something like that, I'm not an engineer, lol.

Supposed to be able to handle gray-to-gray transitions up to 8x faster than standard LCDs.

jtm55 · Post by **jtm55** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi All,

That's an interesting take that you have Kerii. I've seen the Viewsonic monitors @4ms as well as a newer one @3ms, both being grey to grey.

I'm somewhat sceptical about these fantastic numbers though, not to mention the Manufacturers polocies on dead pixels.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:34 pm

just to let you know i was in the same boat when i was looking for an lcd. I learned that ms was how fast a pixel turned on and off (dont know if that right) and like the other guy said nothing above 16 or even 12 if you can help it. A lot of companys use that as a selling point and can be misleading.( like someone selling an intel celeron 3gig processor,seems to be fast but isnt)

I was fortunate enough to have a friend that had an lcd monitor that brought it to lans, the samsung syncmaster 730b. there was absolutly no blur and with the dvi cable i gave him, the picture was excellent, crt like. My shopping had ended with that and so i splurged and got impatiente and bought a samsung 930b which is the 19in version. The max resolution on both is 1280x1024 and have a 8ms response time. However, with the max res. the picture is more crisp on my friends 730 and my 930 because the stretches that picture for the extra 2 inches. Barely noticable though. I say all that because i reccomend either one of those montors. you can get them anywhere from 250-300 bucks now, and maybe even cheaper.

and samsung has one of the highest success rates on no dead pixels eithers. the dells i were looking at, people said they had a high dead pixel rate.
***********
IS ANYONE SELLING A LCD MONITOR CARRIER OR KNOW WHERE I CAN GET ONE FOR CHEAP???? i have looked everywhere for a 19in carrier for less than 60 bucks and cant find one anywhere.

Post by **FZ1** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:17 am

capper5016 wrote:I have the high end ones... i have the 2005FPW and the 2405FPW, both are incredible.. While their monitors are the best, their customer service is the owrst I've ever seen.

Ditto. These are great for gaming.

jtm55 · Post by **jtm55** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:37 am

Hi All,

I checked out the Dell monitors the one I'd really want would cause my Wife to kill me. So I did some looking around & came up with this.

http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/A ... 0trans.doc

It's the Samsung 214T a 21.3" LCD Monitor with a 8ms response time(GtoG). From what I've been able to gather this monitor hasn't been released yet but some online retailers have it listed for $760.00 including shipping.

Tell me what you think

Post by **FZ1** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:33 am

Try the Dell outlet store and look at the "refurbished" monitors. They show up in bunches every so often and you can get the 21" widescreens for just over $400. Also, check gotapex.com...they regularly displays Dell specials inclduing sales on monitors.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:33 am

DragonCooler wrote:
The samsung syncmaster 730b. there was absolutly no blur and with the dvi cable i gave him, the picture was excellent, crt like. My shopping had ended with that and so i splurged and got impatiente and bought a samsung 930b which is the 19in version. The max resolution on both is 1280x1024 and have a 8ms response time. However, with the max res. the picture is more crisp on my friends 730 and my 930 because the stretches that picture for the extra 2 inches. Barely noticable though. I say all that because i reccomend either one of those montors. you can get them anywhere from 250-300 bucks now, and maybe even cheaper.

and samsung has one of the highest success rates on no dead pixels eithers. the dells i were looking at, people said they had a high dead pixel rate.

but the one you are looking at looks pretty sweet too. The only problem i had with those huge dells were i felt like my neck was about to fall off moving my head from side to side to see the entire montior while gaming. LOL

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:26 am

Dell has 20%-30% off coupons for their monitors like... every other week.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/Prod ... sting.aspx
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/Prod ... sting.aspx

If you want a 2405FPW for $760, all you have to do is wait a week or two, and they'll come around on the coupon rotation again, lol.

Edit: Speaking of which...
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod ... u=320-4221

Add that to your cart, then click on My Cart and enter 69$8KC79D53S2H for the coupon code.
Should reduce the price to $779.35 before tax and S&H.

Personally I like how the SONY 23" SDM-P234 looks better, but for half the price and 12ms response time, I'd be willing to forgive the looks on the Dell, lol.

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:40 pm

Yeah, well I'm on a 4 year old Viewsonic VE155b with a 30ms response time!

My "white" now appears more like an off-white...

...and yes, I CAN definately notice the ghosting, even in 2D. Take it from someone looking at a 30ms LCD right now, don't do it!!! Stick to 12ms and under!

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:22 pm

haha, I have an Insignia 17" CRT with a 25ms rate, lol. should have never bought it, but had no choice because the colors were starting to distort somewhat on my old Compaq MV720....of course, this was about 3 months ago when I bought this, but that will be something on my list: an kick-arse LCD; I also heard they are better on your eyes than CRT due to the amount of radiation let out by the pic tube, but that could be misleading....I really don't know.

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:45 pm

Yes, the LCD's are infact easier on the eyes than CRT.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:49 pm

well worth the price then....my eyes aren't getting any better here, lol

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:50 pm

Yeah, LCD is prettymuch the way to go.