SAPPHIRE RADEON 9600XT 256M DUAL (LITE) AGP #450

kav · Post by **kav** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:25 am

So what is the verdict? Is there much use to attempting to OC my current setup?

I willt take some pics of the internals in the next few days to get your suggestions for cooling if there is much OC potential.

Thanks.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:37 am

pretty much you're limited on OC'ing it without a good cooling solution like something from Thermalright or even W/C if you're looking into doing a lot of OC'ing. This is pretty much a computer from a manufacturer, correct? If so, then yeah personally I would leave that system close to what it is now, and perhaps looking into building you own Intel or AMD system, given you're wanting a gaming system. Call me partial, but I like to know what I have in my system, because it's my feeling that you really don't know what you're getting with OEM systems (at least from major brand manufacturers). The other part of my partiality is, of course, with AMD. They are just lighting up the processor market right now IMO by driving prices down on dual-core processors, not to mention coming out with more powerful processors (read: FX-60, FX-62, and X2 5200+, which will be out with socket M2). It will just take a little more time for Intel to nail the desktop market like they did at one time, but they have great mobile processors, so pick your poison well! I ramble, what can I say, lol.

allenpan · Post by **allenpan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:28 am

people...read between the line please

1)2.53B max out @ 166FSB or 183 FSB with voltage mod and air top
2) MSI i845PE old revision
3) Dell bios
4) no oc option in bios nor voltage twick
...

all those above is already a NO, where the hell does the cooling help oc? if there is no tweakable bios there is no adujstable FSB nor Voltage, even with SoftFSB u still need voltage mod it, even get voltage mod and softfsb, the ram won't able to take it due to none tweakable bios on memory setting, even he change the ram, now is the problem with the CPU, if all of those are merically able to work, now we worry about cooling

c'mon people, annalyze it b4 post or even speak

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:15 am

c'mon killswitch- let's not tell the guy to buy everything new. it's an older computer and not worthed to spend too much. my understanding is he is on a budget and has to use pretty much what he has. a 2.53 P4 northwood isn't a bad processor. I had it, I know. it runs pretty cool (usually it was running colder then the mobo in motherboard monitor) so no need to buy expensive cooling solutions like water cooling. mine was running with stock intel cooling (+plus intake and exhaust fans) and was just coool (not like my present prescott

). Anyway, even with sis chipset I was able to OC easily to 2.8 without raising voltage or running any hotter. to support the 9800pro that is plenty enough. with intel chipset he might be able to reach 3ghz (might have to loosen timings on mem and lock the PCI/AGP ratio if there is an option in the bios, which considering it's a DELL might not be possible). just OC a little (try 2.8ghz- go there in small increments of 5Mhz and keep testing with prime95 and/or PCmark05) and concentrate more on the video card. check the links I gave you to find out if your card could be flashed to an XT (might need modified bios- to get it. go to MVKtech-they have 1000+ bioses and will give you good advice how to do it) to overclock the card you will need ATI tool or radlink google it. http://www.mvktech.net/index.php

in case of the 9800pro cooling is essential though - the default is crap and can barely cool the stock settings, if you want to OC you definitelly need better cooling solution (check the cheap cooling mod link I gave you. it's cheap but more effective then most VGA aftermarket cooling), or get a zalman or nvsilencer if you rather want something ready made.

EDIT: oh, if the mobo doesn't have any tweaking options then I guess the only option is to OC the card. I don't personally know that MSI mobo he has. wouldn't a new bios flash help allenpan?

allenpan · Post by **allenpan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:39 am

how mich diference u think he will fee between 2.53 to 2.8OC? beside the false self satisfaction. he wont' feel nah-nah at all same as his video card.

now u tell him to flash a msi offical bios, do u engage in cinouter or electronic business? alot of time OEM system mobo has missing parts and smaller flash rom, u suggest him to flash bios, who gonna take up the responsbility? u? so if he screw it up who gonna replace his mobo? u? that is the probblem with eastern socity no one watch out what they saying.

as for cpu OC, OEM mobo most of time has problem even OC 1mhz due to lack of essential compoments that is missing and don't even need to talk about the bios.

now u ask him to flash to ati R9800TX, i been in electronic and computer design and business for long time. we all know is do able. but when he fail to flash successful most user will panic and creat more damage and regrating on what he had done. for anything if not much difference leave it as is. or look and read the fine line and decide when should give a helping hand instead of hand of misery

u has SIS chipset but who made the mobo? ASUS. if u look @ HP's first P4 computer which is base on P4T-E PCB, even tho they are same PCB, but 40% of surface soldering parts are missing, the 3 level powerphase was reduce to 2, the pci is missing 2 slot, don't mention the bioschip is reduce to 512k chip so on.

as for flash the card. how much differece u think it will hlep him in real life? ATI is already know for cp comsuming driver, even u flash to TX give him like 2-5 fps but he has to put in additional money for aftermark cooler which is around 20-35$ won't it be cheaper let him buy 6600/6800LE in the first place? both has better acritecture and newer generation and much better driver which does not base on .NET frame. talking about driver, if he really want a fast perfoming system driver is essetial. alot of people think i have a fast card is more than enough, is it? NO, if the drive is slacking and base on high level language a high performus system is no longer as fast as some mid en system with midend card with very good driver.

do i say that base on no fact? google it ans u will see if a program is base on .NET frame additional program has to be in active inorder for the driver to funtion, wihtout it is as good as 2D card. on the other hand, NV's driver is base on assembly and C, is a lower level languae as result less cpu comsuming

Help your self befor helping other, a help, a reinforcement, a support have to oversee the entire outcome and carry up the burden of outcome result on its own shoulder.

-•º”V‰Æ (tactic division)

half bottle of water makes the most sound

-˜VŽq (Lao Tzu) 600/300 BC

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:16 pm

allenpan wrote:how mich diference u think he will fee between 2.53 to 2.8OC? beside the false self satisfaction. he wont' feel nah-nah at all same as his video card.

now that's bull. be constructive allenpan. besides being negative you haven't done anything to help the guy. If you hadn't noticed - this is a computer enthusiast forum. most of the people here do OC. some because they can't afford the top of the line but still want to get performance, others because they can and out of curiosity how far they can push the limits.

OC of the 9800pro can raise performance pretty much depending on the cooling and ability of the card. one of the links I gave was a mod where someone used an old laying around CPU cooler and thus it cost him nothing to improve his cards cooling (read it yourself and might just learn something). if he doesn't have a laying around old cooler, still can get one in a computer used part store for $2.

if he doesn't know how to flash a card: he can ask and we will explain and help - thats why we here (I don't know for you but most of us anyway). when I first decided to OC my video card, I had no clue how to even start so I kept on asking and reading around and now I pretty much know how to do it. of course there is allways more to learn, thats why I stick around instead of thinking that I know everything

as to what you said about the difference between 2.53 and 2.8 (which is a modest OC), you are wrong. I just OC'd my friends rig (he has a celeron 2.4) to 2.6Ghz - only that much becouse of lack of voltage and other options in his bios too. he only has a 5700Ultra but his 3dmark03 score jumped 1100 points just from that, which means that his CPU was botlenecking his card (and it's just a 5700U which we all know is about 1/3 of the 9800pro). anyway, I'm trying to help someone who actually asked for help. of course there are no warranties and also: all of us know that OC'ing voids the warranty and is the sole responsibility of the one who tries it, but this said, if someone still wants to OC and askes for help, I'm not going to turn him down. how it goes: someone askes for help-- we try to help-- he is than faced with a choice and might still not go for OC. OR might decide he needs more info and keeps asking and reading. that's how we all learn

kav · Post by **kav** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:54 pm

Seriously guys, I really apprecaite all the info so far and the very useful links. I am reading and absorbing.. I'll be back with more questions ;)...

Thanks again...

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:00 pm

exactly, negativity is definitely not needed here....a good bit of us are still feeling our way around certain concepts and that's how some of us learn: by reading, asking questions, and getting POSITIVE FEEDBACK!!!!! So don't give me that bull about being from a certain society and putting a label on it...it isn't right. Now I know you'll go on the offensive with the fact a good bit of Americans put a label on you guys as well allen, but you know, I'm not that way, OK? flaming people just isn't nice when they're throwing suggestions out there that could possibly be of some help!!!!!!!!

sorry, but I had all I can take of this flaming.

allenpan · Post by **allenpan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:03 pm

now u talking about benchmark, ur friend does not feel jack when run real world apps, the 1100marks means nothing.

still the problem remain, onlything he can OC wiht out much work is the video card, if was planing on OC in the first place he should know the price of the additional aftermark cooler, with total price in mind, he could had get somthing better instead of a R9800p with an aftermark cooler

be more obious, b4 and after effects are most important prior to try to give help

let annalyze it:
exmaple:
1) the things u know, if u decide to give help, is nesscary to give out complete detail with backup plan, not when the problem arrives and looking for solution
2) the result of OC does more damage on physical parts and finacial are more than initally planned

talking about OC, u pay for what u get, u make a full game plan b4 excuted it, if have OC in mind, u pay more for parts as result of good OC

let give u examples, myself has 32+ computers all initally with OC and stability in mind.

my current machine, Dual Xeon @ 3.75G, i pay preium price for the stablilty and parts, if i go cheap i could had gone for intel mobo instead of ASUS, instead of BH5 winbond chip i can go for cheapo ram. u pay a price for OC not for nothing, nothing is free.

if u decide to OC without proper parts, sure u get extra unnoticealbe performus for now, but times will come back and kick u in the nuts, with parts falling due to off spec. is it worth it? no, unless u are prepare for it

u telling a guy to OC this, OC that, and without showing him the entire game plan and knowing the risk is the worst type of help. as when he start to notice parts dying no one will be respondsible for this auction and respond, i tell u so, or it happens. when it can be avoid.

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:05 pm

exactly. thanks kill

you tell him boy

allenpan wrote:now u talking about benchmark, ur friend does not feel jack when run real world apps, the 1100marks means nothing.

still the problem remain, onlything he can OC wiht out much work is the video card, if was planing on OC in the first place he should know the price of the additional aftermark cooler, with total price in mind, he could had get somthing better instead of a R9800p with an aftermark cooler

well, he just paid $120CDN which is about $80US. I can't see how he could get a better card for this + adding a price of a cooler (where his card would be still running hot and probably noisier too. + you are ignoring what I said about the cheap mod

you are also saying that OC'ing is worthless. this is saying that all those thousands of people who actually do it are lunatics who have no idea that the work they do is a waist of money and effort.
also the rest is all bull. I paid $130 for my 6800LE. after opening the pipes, adding a cooler that will be usefull with my next card, and OC, I got 207% of performance increase which I would get with a card that costs allmost 4X more. so I'm done with you.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:07 pm

all I have to say is that I'm not going any further into it, because I do not feel it is a necessary or relational topic to this specific forum, I just wanted to make it clear that you attract more bees with honey than with vinegar...it's fine to give good positive suggestions and just merely correct someone, rather than completely slam them, this is all I'm saying man...I mean no offense, it's just cultural differences I guess. Subject closed for me, I'm not going any further into it.

allenpan · Post by **allenpan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:16 pm

is not cultule difference, i been though same education as everyone else in north america, i learn through out my life to see and understand the pass b4 making mroe mistake in the future. this is what current soclity does not have.

that is why u see more elder people saying how much they regrad the pass, how much they would had make the difference if they did other wise.

in the infomation boom age, people liek urself has already lost in the sea of infomation, without knowing the pass but only the present knowledge is not enough.

just b/c i use asia as example does not make me different than u, european has learn alot from their past history and attempt to fix their mistake, however north american education did not teach this. i think this marks the period of my idealigy

LVCapo · Post by **LVCapo** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:03 pm

killswitch83 wrote:all I have to say is that I'm not going any further into it, because I do not feel it is a necessary or relational topic to this specific forum, I just wanted to make it clear that you attract more bees with honey than with vinegar...it's fine to give good positive suggestions and just merely correct someone, rather than completely slam them, this is all I'm saying man...I mean no offense, it's just cultural differences I guess. Subject closed for me, I'm not going any further into it.

This is exactly right, and the spirit and attitude which we foster here. I've asked Allen REPEATEDLY to review the forum rules, please don't make me a bad guy here.
Everyone has an opinion, everyone here is trying to help....and we really can do without a condescending attitude or posts. If you don't have something constructive to add to the topic, please don't post.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:19 pm

To quote Martin Lawrence: "Can't we all just get along?" lol........

but seriously kav, like I said before, you have a little headroom to work with, and it might eliminate graphics card bottleneck, but of course you may end up finding yourself hardware-limited on most of today's new games. All I can say is good luck with your venture here man