Best AGP Video Card?

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:18 pm

Ok, I'm looking to buy a new video card. I have about $300 to spend. I need some good suggestions on the best AGP video card I can get for no more than $300. I don't want to spend the money for a new mobo and CPU so PCIe is out of the question.

So what's my best bet for around $250 - $300?

I'm leaning towards the ATI X850 Pro.
Wish I could afford the X850 XT Platinum but the price jumps from $255 to $400.

What pisses me off is the PCIe version of the X850 XP Platinum is around $300 but the AGP version is $400. That sucks.

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:31 pm

are you willing to open the pipes and OC or just want a ready performance (you could save serious $$ with the former)?

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:24 pm

I think the X850 XT is pro is probably your best bet then. They don't have PixelShader 3.0, but they still perform very well. If you are looking to keep this card for quite a while (which I'm assuming you plan to do), then maybe considering something that will be able to take advantage of HDR lighting (and the other benefits associated with PS3) might be a good idea. But that puts you in the nVidia GeForce 6 series range (6800GT and 6800 Ultra), and the X850's outperform the 6 series... So it's up to you I guess...

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:18 pm

The AGP 6800GS isn't a bad deal. About on par with a 6800GT.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130002

Worth considering if you want to play the new games with all the eyecandy on like Fable:TLC, AoE3, SeriousSam2, UT2007, SC4, etc.

I think you might need to turn down the resolution on some of those to get decent frames though, even with PS3.0 optimizations.

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:25 pm

Woah! 6800GS in AGP! I didn't think I would see it happen. Good to know, thanks again Kerii

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:05 pm

Kerii wrote:The AGP 6800GS isn't a bad deal. About on par with a 6800GT.

it's only on par if you OC it

and still falls well behind a x850xt, not the same category

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:43 pm

Ehh... it's on par without any OCing at all. Every review site has it neck and neck with the GT trailing or leading by 1%~2%.

That and they can be unlocked to 16 pipes.
Good ol NV40. (Guess they cared enough about the AGP market to order another batch of those.)

And found it cheaper at Monarch: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant ... ode=190141

As for trailing way behind, in some games yes, but in others (like FEAR) it's the X800 cards that are trailing.

Though... most of those benchmarks were before 5.13 and 81.98 so performance right now is a bit of a mystery.

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:29 am

don't confuse the GS PCI-E version with the GS AGP version. they aren't equal. the AGP version is much slower.
yes, the GS PCI-E version is on par with the GT
GT: 350/1000 gddr3 2.0ns mem 16pipes
GS (PCI-E) 420/1000 gddr3 2.0ns mem 12 pipes
so where there is less pipes on GS, it has a faster clock on the core

but the AGP version is clocked @ 350/1000 12 pipes. it has the NV40 core which cannot be OC-d as well as the PCI-E version
so in short it's simple: has the same clocks as the GT (350/1000) but 4 pipes less (12only). so it's much slower and I see no guarantee on any sites that it can be unlocked - even if it can it would be at best on par with the GT but without unlocking

nope.

I don't even know why they call it a GS? the core is the same as on the vanilla 6800 except clocked higher and more ram (256mb as opposed to 128 on the vanilla). or it's like the GT but with 4 less pipes.

Kerii · Post by **Kerii** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:51 am

Different core though, so the mhz numbers don't play out exactly the same. Bad idea to make the comparison without clarifying, my mistake.

NV40 has a higher pixel/texture/stencil fill rate than the NV42, even at lower clock speeds. And seeing as the GT uses the same NV40 core, it's not surprising to see people overclocking them to the same speeds, and even higher (450) than the GTs, though with slower OC on the RAM. Though those results are just individual tests, the RAM would most likely be able to go higher at lower GPU clocks.

Don't read too much into the branding. The GTO series were "supposed to be" slower than the XTPEs too.

killswitch83 · Post by **killswitch83** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:04 am

Kerii wrote: Don't read too much into the branding. The GTO series were "supposed to be" slower than the XTPEs too.

"supposed" to, but once the mods are complete, you see you waste a good deal of money on the XT PE.........thank goodness for those out there who are willing to "experiment", heheh......it's the only way to save money in this territory, really.

TK421 · Post by **TK421** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:53 am

Personally, I'm recommending the 6800GS AGP to all my friends and family for upgrades. The articles I've read concerning its performance seem to be very comparable, if not more powerful, than the 6800GT AGP. The PCI-Express version of the card however, continually out-performs they 6800GT by up to 8% to 15%.

I think your best bet is with the 6800GS AGP as mentioned by many above.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:29 pm

are you willing to open the pipes and OC or just want a ready performance

Yes, I'd be willing to overclock provided I can find clear, detailed, and straightforward instructions on how to do so. I've never overclocked a video card and wouldn't want to screw anything up. However, if I'm willing to overclock the pro, why not overclock the XT also? So in that case, I still want the fastest card for the money I have to spend.

They don't have PixelShader 3.0

I'm a bit out of touch with the current specs of video cards, what benefits would I get from this? Which games use it? Are you saying that HDR lighting needs this and is only capable with an nVidia card?

But that puts you in the nVidia GeForce 6 series range (6800GT and 6800 Ultra), and the X850's outperform the 6 series... So it's up to you I guess...

Yeah, that's a tough decision then. and I guess it's down to those two cards. Does anyone know if the X850 XT PE supports Pixelshader 3.0 or is that an nVIDIA only feature?

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to just hold on and wait another month or two to see if the prices of the last AGP cards come down.

I want to thank everyone for their very helpful suggestions but unfortunatly, I'm still undecided....

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:47 pm

Topher wrote:
are you willing to open the pipes and OC or just want a ready performance
Yes, I'd be willing to overclock provided I can find clear, detailed, and straightforward instructions on how to do so. I've never overclocked a video card and wouldn't want to screw anything up. However, if I'm willing to overclock the pro, why not overclock the XT also? So in that case, I still want the fastest card for the money I have to spend.

They don't have PixelShader 3.0
I'm a bit out of touch with the current specs of video cards, what benefits would I get from this? Which games use it? Are you saying that HDR lighting needs this and is only capable with an nVidia card?

But that puts you in the nVidia GeForce 6 series range (6800GT and 6800 Ultra), and the X850's outperform the 6 series... So it's up to you I guess...
Yeah, that's a tough decision then. and I guess it's down to those two cards. Does anyone know if the X850 XT PE supports Pixelshader 3.0 or is that an nVIDIA only feature?

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to just hold on and wait another month or two to see if the prices of the last AGP cards come down.

I want to thank everyone for their very helpful suggestions but unfortunatly, I'm still undecided....

None of the X8** series cards support Pixelshader 3.0.(only the X18** series do) The GeForce6 cards do, but just about and add no performance really.....

The NVidia 6800GS is prob your best bet for AGP...They are fast @ stock and are good overclockers....(damn nice card!)

:edit: Unless you can find a X800GTO2 AGP with the additional power connector on the card.....They can be modded to an X850XTPE with a simple bios flash!

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:04 pm

Does the 6800 GT only come in PCI-Express? I can't seem to locate one for AGP. I figured if I could get the 6800 GS for around or under $250 the GT might also be in my price range.

Ok, and now probably my last question would be, "Am I going to see a good, noticible, performance increase from my Radeon 9700 Pro to the nVidia 6800 GS? Is it worth the $215 (from Monarch) to pay for this kind of performance boost. I paid over $400 for my 9700 Pro back when they first came out and honestly, I'm sick and tired of paying that much money for video cards.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:06 pm

the GS is better!

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:11 pm

sbohdan wrote:don't confuse the GS PCI-E version with the GS AGP version. they aren't equal. the AGP version is much slower.
yes, the GS PCI-E version is on par with the GT
GT: 350/1000 gddr3 2.0ns mem 16pipes
GS (PCI-E) 420/1000 gddr3 2.0ns mem 12 pipes
so where there is less pipes on GS, it has a faster clock on the core

but the AGP version is clocked @ 350/1000 12 pipes. it has the NV40 core which cannot be OC-d as well as the PCI-E version
so in short it's simple: has the same clocks as the GT (350/1000) but 4 pipes less (12only). so it's much slower and I see no guarantee on any sites that it can be unlocked - even if it can it would be at best on par with the GT but without unlocking nope.

ken, the AGP GT is faster then the AGP GS. read above. the only advantage of the GS is a lower price, but that is proportionate with the lower prformance.

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:19 pm

Ok..fair enough, but try get an AGP 6800GT for under $250....I couldn't find any

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:16 pm

Ok guys, how about this. I might be able to scrape up the extra money for a card so tell me this.

What is the absolute fastest, greatest AGP video card?

Although I really like the raw speed of the X850 XT, I'm thinking that I'd really like to get something with Pixelshader 3.0.

Is the 6800 GT the absolute best I can get in AGP?
I found one for $346 here:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=EV-6800GT&c=pw

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:26 pm

the X850XT IS the best......Full Stop....

PS 3.0 is only a minor performance thing for the Gforce6 series....

PS 3.0 does allow for great effects like HDR but with the Gforce6 series of cards, performance is crippled seriously....

So basically the GForce6 series is fast, not as fast as the X850 but allows you to use HDR in select games......BUT if you use HDR you need to seriously drop the resloution to get playable frame rates....

The ATI cards support PS 2.0b.....they can't use HDR but are wicked fast!!

IF your willing to pay, then the ATI X850XT is the best $$ can buy for AGP

current games will support HDR but not require it, don't worry about PS 3.0 support

sbohdan · Post by **sbohdan** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:52 pm

kenc51 wrote:the X850XT IS the best......Full Stop....

PS 3.0 is only a minor performance thing for the Gforce6 series....

PS 3.0 does allow for great effects like HDR but with the Gforce6 series of cards, performance is crippled seriously....

So basically the GForce6 series is fast, not as fast as the X850 but allows you to use HDR in select games......BUT if you use HDR you need to seriously drop the resloution to get playable frame rates....

The ATI cards support PS 2.0b.....they can't use HDR but are wicked fast!!

IF your willing to pay, then the ATI X850XT is the best $$ can buy for AGP

current games will support HDR but not require it, don't worry about PS 3.0 support

I couldn't have said it better

for what you said about the price of the GT - it's true. I just said that the GT AGP is faster then the GS AGP. it costs more too