Hi! Im new and slightly ghetto.....

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:00 pm

First off just gotta say this forum looks great, lots of info and well laid out. Dragon Cooler reffered me here because I have alot of half baked ideas and he says you guys know your stuff when it comes to water cooling. Anyway I want the cool temperatures of TEC but I dont want to spend the cash because, well, im slightly ghetto. So here is my idea. Im going to stick a radiator in my mini-fridge that I have next to my computer and run a hose via T-connector to my resevoir outlet into the minifridge radiator inlet then run the outlet from that via another T-connector to my CPU inlet and voila mini-fridge-rific. im also planning on putting butterfly valves on both of the T-connectors so I can disconnect the system and attach it to a more portable version for lan parties and such (read on). My question is I know that when the temperature of a liquid drops below the ambient temp of its environment that condensation forms on the container of the chilled liquid, ive read about all kinds of solutions that people have but Im still researching the process for this because obviously the chance for disaster is pretty high since condensation+mobo is bad.

Oh yeah and if it works im going to get a grocery store foam chest and put a copper coil in it and fill it with ice so I can take my idea to lan parties

Anyway if its been done then how and if it hasnt then how can I stop condensation. Thanks!

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:09 pm

Hey Honkus, welcome to the forums, Dragon Cooler was right our more experienced members know their stuff!

As for condensation Ive Seen people use Foam to insulate around the CPU block in phase change set ups, maybe that could help you here too?

Dan

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:15 pm

Yeah ive heard the foam thing too but what kind of foam? ive also heard using silicon or latex based caulk, and theres stuff you are supposed to do to your socket to to prepare it or water tight it or something. I just want to make absolutley sure because I just got a MSI K9N SLI Platinum, 2 gigs of DDR2, a MSI 7600GT and a A64 4000+ x2 AM2 and id hate to ruin them ya know? Its gonna be 3 weeks before my proc ships though so I have 3 weeks to perfect this on my old crap lol

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:18 pm

Welcome!

I dunno about TEC cooling, but I think you need Luberex.......it's a dielectric grease (non-conductive)

I'd LOVE to see pics of this!!!!

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:30 pm

lol, to be honest, i wouldnt have thought the temperature difference that you would get from putting a radiator in a fridge would not have been that much, not causing that much (if any) condensation, for the water to cool to condensation point it would need to have been in the fridge for a long while, but as its constantly moving i dont think it will cool enough.

But im intrigued for you to try it all the same!

One improvement on your idea might be to have 2 radiators, one outside the fridge, cooling the water some, and then the other one inside the fridge, this would mean that the fridge wouldnt warm up as much thereby being slightly more effective.

Dan

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:35 pm

DMB2000uk wrote:lol, to be honest, i wouldnt have thought the temperature difference that you would get from putting a radiator in a fridge would not have been that much, not causing that much (if any) condensation, for the water to cool to condensation point it would need to have been in the fridge for a long while, but as its constantly moving i dont think it will cool enough.

But im intrigued for you to try it all the same!

One improvement on your idea might be to have 2 radiators, one outside the fridge, cooling the water some, and then the other one inside the fridge, this would mean that the fridge wouldnt warm up as much thereby being slightly more effective.

Dan

The condensation comes from the H2O in the air! It can happen around the CPU and motherboard......the outside edges of a good TEC can get very very cold

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Well my case is a koolance so I have the radiator in it, and im going to run the coolant thru it after it hits the proc otherwise im affraid the radiator might actually bring the coolant closer to room temperature before it hits the proc

So im thinkin the coolant should go:

Resevoir
Fridge Rad
Proc
Case Rad
Resevoir

Also im thinking I might want to upgrade to a better pump for this, what do yall think?

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:48 pm

I agree with you on TEC condensation kenc, but on fridge radiator condensation i doubt it will

Looking up about peltiers i found this site, at the bottom of the page it shows you at what temperature and humidity stuff condenses (i know no one ever knows how humid it is in places, but hey

) :
http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.p ... info.shtml

Honkus, i still think it should go:

Resevoir --> Proc --> Case Rad --> Fridge Rad --> Resevoir

Though with this set-up it may take some time to reach optimum cooling, so maybe try:

Resevoir --> Case Rad --> Fridge Rad --> Proc --> Resevoir

One thing is for sure, you are going to have lots of fun trying this out

Dan

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:02 pm

Yeah I think your right about the

Resevoir --> Case Rad --> Fridge Rad --> Proc --> Resevoir

Ill go that route, also I found this on google for whoever is interested:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/arc ... -3310.html

And yes this will be fun....unless it leaks then not so fun.

Also I agree that It probably wont condense but better safe then sorry right? I mean this is my comp, its like a child to me. and I think ill get better temps with the ice chest full of ice (and more condensation) then the mini fridge but I wont have to fill the fridge with ice every couple hours

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:43 pm

How about this instead of the mini-fridge/ice chest?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... _Stores_IT

Its an automatic frozen yogurt maker
does anyone not think it can keep a radiator coil cold?

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:53 pm

Unless your going to take it to bits and modify it i dont think it would work as well. I would have thought that that relies on contact with the liquid, i.e. youghurt, to freeze it rather than cooling the air that you'd be passing through the radiatior.

You are going to have a fan on the radiator inside the fridge aren't you? Because without one i dont think it would work as well.

Dan

***edit***

Plus if you are going to spend that much on an ice cream maker that you'd have to mod, you may as well buy a peltier (they're about that price!)

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:05 pm

Well I think im gonna go with the ice cream maker unless I can find a smalled, colder appliance lol as for the problem with it cooling air rather then liquid I decided I was going to try filling the ice cream maker with either Everclear or an Everclear/water mix (to avoid a potential fire lol) and then submerge a copper coil. I just got back from Home Depot and here is what I found for pricing:

$39.90 for the ice cream maker Its 48 Watts and 15 in. H x 11 in. W x 10 in. L
$14.99 for 10' of 1/4" copper tubing
$4.29 25 ft Polethylene Tubing (smallest length I could find!)
$5.89 6' of self adhesive pipe insulation
$3.40 Stainless Steel hose clamps (4)

Total: $68.47

Might be a waste of money might be worth it, but im gonna spend it next pay check for the purpose of "scientific curiosity" lol

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:21 pm

all this water cooling stuff is whey over my head, but im glad non the less you finally found your way over here!!

Glad to see someone could finally help you and WELCOME!!!!!

if and when you get the stuff to build it, ill be more than happy to meet up with and help.......take pictures. LOLOL

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:25 am

As long as your happy on spending all that money on something that probably wont work too good (how are you going to stop the water inside the water system plain freezing now?

) then go for it!

Also, I expect a worklog with plenty of pics of this project, if i had a disposable income i'd love to try stuff like this!

Look forward to your findings!

Dan

**Edit**

unless I can find a smalled, colder appliance

You mean like a peltier?

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:03 am

There will be plenty of pictures and im a stubborn SOB once I get my mind set on something. I mean people though the wright brothers were crazy too right? Still I will be more then happy if I get even a 10 degree drop in temps, and It will be unique so thats a plus for me. And the coolant I use has a freezing point of -60C so that would make me REALLY happy if it froze lol

As soon as I get paid in like 10 days Dragon Cooler and I are going to do the Frankenstein thing and build this beast.

Dragon_Cooler · Post by **Dragon_Cooler** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:34 am

lol as long as its your stuff. LOLOL.

.....well wait a min. i have an old intel celeron 7800mhz we can test on.

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:40 pm

Nah I wanna test it outside a comp for a few hours and see how much condensation forms and get some temp readings. Part of me hopes no condensation forms but if that happens then it isnt getting cold enough lol

HONkUS · Post by **HONkUS** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:18 am

Well I went to a local Fry's Electronics (a big one too) and I bought a 12vdc refegirator for automobiles, it drew 3.3 amps @ 12v then I thought wait a minute what am I doing I bet theres a peltier plate in there im being way to complicated with this so I took the thing apart and sure enough there is a little TEC1-12705 45w peltier element thats cooled by a big aluminum HS and a generic 80mm PC fan! So I took the peltier, slapped some AS5 and an old HS to it and hooked it up to a molex on one of my old power supplies and the thing literally started forming frost within seconds it was the most amazing thing ive ever seen, seriously folks this is proof that we are the dominant species in the universe, pelti-freakin-er man its amazing. So long story short would I get any benefit from using this little 45w peltier to cool my proc or should i just bow down and pick up a more powerful one, I think frozencpu sells a 237w one lol regardless though im still going ot build the ice chest thing just to satisfy my curiosity and to hopefully provide cheap effective cooling to the huddled, poverty stricken masses that cant afford a TEC unit

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:32 am

Short version is DONT PUT THAT PELTIER IN YOUR PC!!!! lol. If you put a peltier in the PC where the heat is more than the peltier can handle, your CPU will get fried. The TDP of your current CPU before you overclocked it was 89W, it's no doubt going to be more now it is overclocked, is twice the peltiers max

So you need a peltier thats over the maximum TDP, and for overclocking you want some headroom, so that 226W one sounds good (as for reliability/excellence i haven't a clue which brands are better!).

Another thing, is with the super peltiers, like the one above, your probably going to need another PSU to supply it, as its going to be sucking off the 12v rail nearly 24amps.

As for condensation-proofing your PC, i found a good link here:

http://www.swiftnets.com/socketsealing.htm

Though it seems a little extreme, as you cant swap out the processor once you seal it in...

Though im no peltier cooling expert, i only know all this from stuff ive read, so if anyone else knows anything else better, please share!

Dan

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:59 am

Just had a thought as to how you can use that 45W peltier you now have lying around.

Use that to cool the second radiator as we (ok, you) originally planned to do with the fridge. It would require some sort of heatsink (a CPU cooler should do the trick) strapping to the hot side so that it doesnt burn out though.

What do you think? Sub-Zero temps you probably wont get, and condensation will be running riot, but it lets you use that peltier

Dan