if you are in texas

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:21 pm

sign this petition tell your friends

http://www.petitiononline.com/txplate/petition.html

fkin cops have nothing better to do!!?

bubba · Post by **bubba** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:43 pm

Not too many states left (19 to be exact) that don't require a front plate. I know its a $75 ticket in here MO. for not having a front plate.

I do know in MO. that the rear plate of a truck over a certain size is allowed to be in a deferent place, like the rear window, due to trailers.

The Black Pumpkin · Post by **The Black Pumpkin** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:05 pm

Well, we're front-plateless in Florida, but when we lived in Maryland we needed them.

But since we have license plates from the same years as our old cars, my plan is to put them on the front and put the new ones on the back, as required.

Xanlamin · Post by **Xanlamin** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:03 am

(First, eliminating the need for a front license plate will significantly reduce the state costs associated with production, storage, and shipping.)

I do agree with this, in essance it will reduce the cost by 1/2.

(Second, a front license plate restricts the performance of passenger vehicles. Modern cars are no longer being designed with front plates in mind. Installing the mounting brackets that are necessary to hold the plates interfere with the cars' aerodynamics, often get damaged during the car-washing process and also cause a devaluation of Collectors Edition or other such Limited Edition vehicles when required to drill or otherwise modify the front bumper.)

The performance loss is so minuet it is un-noticeable.

The design of the car without front plates in mind has been in affect for the past 20 years, in states that require the front plate the dealership has been making the modifications to accomidate the front plate if the vehicle lacked it. And again the aerodynamics of the car are hardly affedted...furthermore the aerodynamics of the car also prohibit radar systems to properly send back a signal to the officer of fast moving vehicles, the front plate allows for a flat surface needed for the affectiveness of radar systems.

When mounted correctly car washing (even automatic systems) do not affect it.

I have never seen a vehicle get depreciated due to having a front plate, the depreciation of vehicles is rapid anyways...you can take a $45,000 Eddie Baur Edition SUV brand new and drive it off the lot...it just lost $15,000 worth of value.

(Third, unnecessary damage is sustained from minor bumper-to-bumper collisions, because the front mounting brackets on passenger cars can cause cracks and abrasions to the rear bumpers of the cars that they hit.)

I am sorry...if you hit another car in the rear with your front bumper...even without a front plate your going to cause damage to both vehicles (except if the person you hit has a steel bumper), front bumpers are made so cheaply now-a-days that it does not take much, a 5mph impact can cause in upwards of $1,000 worth of damage to your car if you have a plastic bumper (plated or not).

(Finally, police officers will be more productive in stopping dangerous motor vehicle violations such as drunk driving, reckless driving, speeding, racing, etc., since their time will not be compromised by a Texas motorist who simply did not have a front license plate on display.)

Granted not having to worry about looking for ppl without front plates allows time that can be spent trying to pay attention for other matters I highly doubt it would matter much, I remeber a time (here in MO who has always required a front plate) when I drove 3 years without one and never had anything said to me about it...and yes it has been noticed by police officers...they would just go and look at the back of the car and then walk away (vehicle was an 85' Camaro Z28).

(Law enforcement officials might be opposed to a measure abolishing the front license plate requirement, as they might believe that losing the extra plate will make it more difficult for them to do their jobs in the best possible manner. However, in the 20 or more states that have abolished the front license plate requirement, there is no evidence of a decline in public safety as a result of the plate removal.)

The states that do not require the front plate have not required it in more than 25+ years, there may have been a couple that have not required it in the past few years but not because of any of the reason you stated...except for maybe the first one (reducing production cost for the state).

I am all for people steping up and fighting for a good cause, but the argument you perpose does not contain valid points and will not get the attention of law makers of your state, get as many signatures as you want...you can have 2 million people sign it and the state does not have to do anything about it, petitions do not have the leverage on the legislative level as people think they do, they are more designed towards local communities on smaller matters that do not require statewide change.

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:11 am

yes but why drill holes in a bumper to put a plate for radar efficiency. The car looks better without it. If they must have it as a law it should not be a law they can pull you over for, I mean it is not a saftey issue, not a moving voilation and not a threat to anyone. Yeah if they want to pull you over for going 2mph over the speed limit just so they can tack on the ticket for no FLP then go ahead. If the vehicle had a plate i.e. a holder and the plate is missing, ok do it, but if the car never was fitted with one, has current tags and everything else is legal leave me alone. Assholes!!!

I feel that if the vehicle has passed "state inspection" and has no obvious look of plate removal then why can a city cop pull you over and give a ticket. I have had the car almost 2 years and passed 2 state inspections without ever being told a single thing about it. It should no longer be my responsibility after the state has approved my vehicle to be on the road.

cyberneticimplant · Post by **cyberneticimplant** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:24 am

yes but why drill holes in a bumper to put a plate for radar efficiency

It's just a poor argument. Just like the argument on the other side of the story that front plates slow the car down, and make you waste gas.

The only real benefit of front plates is easier identification of vehicles.

Xanlamin · Post by **Xanlamin** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:20 pm

It is the responsibility of the dealership to make the car accomidate a FLP if the state requires it, ALL cars come out of the manufactor without the ability to accomidate a FLP.

It's not a matter of "it is easier for police to radar you", nor the fact that a way to say "if you don't have one we will give you a ticket", it is just a matter of the state made it a law therefore you must have it. I seen you mention a city cop...city cops are ALWAYS more strick than say county cops or state cops, city cops are not state funded and get there revenue from law breakers, so yes...they will look for any reason to pull you over...even if your doing 1mph over the speed limit. County Police have a much larger area that brings in there revenue and are partialy state funded, State Police are 100% state funded + what they get for tickets...county and state will also not pull you over if your doing 5-10mph over the speed limit (pending on the area your doing it in or unless they are really really bored).

Like I said in my post above...I am all for someone stepping forward with legit claims to have a law reduced or dropped...but come up with viable arguements that will give them reasons to think about it...not aerodynamics or holes in your bumper (which should already be there by the dealer) or scratching the car you just hit (which you did damage to anyways if you did not have a FLP).

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:29 am

Here in Missouri they have cameras mounted on stop lights. If you run a light the camera gets a picture of the front of your car. Including your face AND license plate. This of course results in you getting a ticket in the mail.

A bummer yes, and automating something silly as trying to stop red light runners seems pitiful, but have you seen all of the videos on the net of people running a stop light and getting blindsided by a quickly moving vehicle coming from the other direction? It happens all the time. Some of these people might be less likely to run a stop light if they know they will get a ticket, thus increasing the safety of other drivers in that intersection. And this is possible of course by the camera AND the front license plate.

Regardless, what I am trying to get at is there are a lot of hidden chained events that equal a positive outcome for the argument that front license plates are a good thing.

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:01 pm

most of those people that just blaze thru a light and get blind sided wernt paying attention to driving anyways. I had a lady today stop in the intersection right in my lane completly blocking me. I was just nice and slammed on hte breaks and hi-beamed, didnt honk, just hoped noone would slam into her coming around me when i stopped. She got lucky unlike my fiancee who was driving back to work in her CRV and a express custom van blazed thru the light and t-boned her!

Tech_Greek · Post by **Tech_Greek** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:02 am

The license plate does not help out radar guns...your huge CAR does! lol

They can target motorcycles even more!

Post by **Apoptosis** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:12 am

I live in MO and don't have a front plate and haven't on my car in 1.5 years... Never once got pulled over for first 15,000 miles I put on it, but I've been pulled over 4 times in the past 60 days and been let go without a written warning each time... Lucky I guess, but I will never put a front plate on my car, but I got a decent reason... It blocks my intercooler and my car never came with holes for a front plate...

And I'll be damned if I block my FMIC... (not my car pictured above)

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:14 am

Apoptosis wrote:
And I'll be damned if I block my FMIC... (not my car pictured above)

not your car huh!!! lmao....

(is my car pictured)

Post by **Apoptosis** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:23 am

yeah, but mines identical and black ;)

see your car has a place for a plate!

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:29 am

but i never had one dont have the one that goes in there and it has been instpected by the "state" 2 times with nothing. So again i say F*CK the city cops

how does that american ricer run boosted? I eat those things stock with my 99 M3...oh yeah and MudSling GT's

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:32 am

Im going to start designing my turbo system soon...I should be eating z06 vetts by the summer

Post by **Apoptosis** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:41 am

zparker wrote: how does that american ricer run boosted? I eat those things stock with my 99 M3...oh yeah and MudSling GT's

Yea you're right you're M3 would eat my car... unless you're running low 12's on street tires and high 11's on slicks then you won't eat any of my skittles

here is my car... dirty, but it's in the low 30's today...

The last time I had it tuned it put down 310whp on the dyno --- on the bottle add another 75hp (~70 real world horses)

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:02 am

nice, im only pushin about 275 flywheel right now. Probally only runnin mid 12's but i still have yet to go out to the full quarter. I had 9.14 with just the CAI in the 8th mile. It is just so far to drive to go hit the quarter. But i am in the process of designing my turbo system. I am going remote mount with 9psi and should be around 582 at the flywheel.

ive seen a video of one with that hp and stock suspention....lets just say that 1-3 had the tfront tires about 3" off the ground for about 3 seconds each...

Post by **Apoptosis** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:44 am

that would be awesome

zparker · Post by **zparker** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:06 pm

like i said though starting to design....i can see the headaches starting now...excel spreadsheets to calculate numbers and ratios...****...should be able to run 9psi on stock injectors but will probally up them a little.

Post by **Apoptosis** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:36 pm

be sure to start a thread in off topic when you start on the project -- lot's of car buffs are here in the forums too ;)