To Vista or not to Vista, that is the question...

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:14 pm

Having just built a new system and installing Vista Ultimate, I would say WAIT. Just about everything I do I have some small issue and have to spend extra time to solve. It gets solved, but with a lot of extra effort. As an example I tried to load Qucken, which was supposed to be compatible. System loaded from the CD OK, but when it went to update, I cancelled the update after 35 minutes thinking something was wrong. I then went to their website and found information that said the update could take up to 2 hours depending on your memory amount. With 2 gb of memory it took about 45 minutes. Never had that problem with XP.

DaddyRabbit · Post by **DaddyRabbit** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:53 pm

I've been doing pretty well with the "clean install from an upgrade" with Ultimate but it has not been trouble free. My worst issues have been:

1. The "Transfer documents and settings" thingamajiggy. I used XP to export my files and settings then tried to use the Vista "Windows Easy transfer" to import them, all it does is copy them to an "OldFiles" folder. For anyone doing this; use the "Windows Easy transfer" from the Vista DVD instead of the "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard" in XP.

2. Getting my Outlook messages and contacts transferred from Outlook 2003 to Windows Mail was WAAAAAY more difficult than it needed to be (Office 2007 Home & Student doesn't include Outlook). I ended up going on my Wife's PC, importing my PST into her Outlook, running the Vista "Windows Easy transfer", and then importing them. Settings didn't take, and Contacts didn't properly transfer but I did get my old folders back. In short this functionality is BADLY BROKEN, especially for the "average Joe" home user (I could not import from Outlook Express DBX files either, and I'm not a newb at this)!

All that said, I don't think I'll be going back to XP soon (I actually bough the 2 $50 Home Premium upgrades I was due for the Wife and Son's PCs... But I did take HPs advice and upgraded to a new printer, it's a Samsung CLP-300 Color Laser. I used to swear by HP but they've let me down since Windows XP 64 bit, they won't be doing it again anytime soon...

sleepyhollow · Post by **sleepyhollow** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:46 pm

My opinion on Vista is that is an RIAA/MPAA Big Brother Communist control tool to take our Internet Freedom away, so with that in mind, I will stay away from it as long as possible, as long...as possible. Then, maybe switch to Linux or Mac. Big F#ck to micr0$hit! Big.

stev · Post by **stev** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:59 am

sleepyhollow wrote:My opinion on Vista is that is an RIAA/MPAA Big Brother Communist control tool to take our Internet Freedom away ....

Ditto, echo that and we will NOT go Vista here baby!

Windows 98SE served and serves me well over the years. Windows XP Pro SP2 has been a good OS as well. Vista has the markings of something evil inside.

Just go to the EEF site link in my signature. Type in Vista in the upper right search box. Then you'll know what evil is in there that will limit your freedom and challenge your privacy!

Here's only a few ...

And for those who like to watch a DVD or movie downloaded ...
Digital Video Restrictions
http://www.eff.org/IP/digitalvideo

Why Microsoft Sold Out Consumers in Vista ...
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005121.php
"...Hollywood demanded that Microsoft lard Vista with restrictions to access high-def DVD and digital cable content. Microsoft has to get permission to build devices compatible with Hollywood's DRMed content."

Microsoft's Vista: Read the Fine Print! ...
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005104.php
"... The anti-virus program that comes with Vista reserves the right to delete any programs it deems dangerous without permission, even though this could mean the removal of legitimate and useful software (or prevent other software from working). And the EULA warns users that â€œyou may not work around any technical limitations of the software.â€

sleepyhollow · Post by **sleepyhollow** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:36 am

For a second there Stev I thought I'm gonna be buried with flames, it's otherwise, glad I'm on the good-side, the freedom-fighter side. Respect.

syncrod · Post by **syncrod** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:04 pm

i tried and didn't like its performance.
everything seemed sluggish. even with 2gb
i'll stick with XP SP2 until they force us to use direct x 10 only

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:34 pm

vista takes so much juice its unreal!! a guy ordered a pc from us and wanted home premium on it. it was a half decent machine, Athlon 4200+ X2, gig OCZ 800 platnum ram, 7950GTX 1gb. we loaded home premiuim on it an b4 we put anti virus or any other progs on it we ran a quick 3dmark01 on it an it scored just under 15000 marks, which i personally fought was ****. so i wanged another hard drive in it an loaded XP home sp2, ran 3dmark01 agen an it scored bout 31500 marks!!! so just the home premium halfs the speed of yr comp, i wudnt like to see how much ultimate wud slow it down!!!

DaddyRabbit · Post by **DaddyRabbit** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:02 pm

sleepyhollow,

From a DRM standpoint Linux, OS X, QNX, Solaris won't make a difference as, without the appropriate DRMd codecs and standards you still will not be able to play the "next best thing" in media that the RIAA and MPAA want to shove down our throats. This isn't a Microsoft thing...

stev

All of those articles (and the EFF in general) bring up good points. However, they all point to Hollywood, the NSA/CIA/Homeland Defense. Steve Jobs denounced DRM (which is funny to me looking at the app that resurrected Apple <iTunes/iPod> which is simply reeking with it). I'm sure MS didn't WANT to have development teams tied to developing and testing DRM enabled apps but felt that "when in Rome"...

The simple fact is that most of us HERE are, at a minimum, power users but MS and Apple, and Dell, and Gateway, and HP, all make their money from the "Average Joe User" who just wants to play a DVD or listen to music on their PC and really doesn't understand or care about the rest. If MS stood up and "Just Said No!" they would be cutting their own throats because they, just like us, are over a barrel. I don't see it as "selling out" but "ensuring survival". The question could also appropriately be "Why isn't HP or Dell refusing to sell Vista systems in protest of the "new DRM standards?". The MPAA and RIAA are trying to compensate for lost sales because 99% of what they churn out to Joe Public is crap and noone wants to buy it...

That said, I can burn my iTunes library to audio CD, rip the CD to MP3, and listen to it, all on Vista, all day with no DRM issues other than I would be violating my EULA with Apple. DRM is here but as fast as the checkpoints are put into place they are being "worked around" and that won't stop IMHO.

DRM is pervasive everywhere and doesn't even require a PC anymore, soon we will all be facing the "Dark Scary Place"...

After playing the Devils Advocate however I do have one thing to say to the RIAA and MPAA and the "Entertainment Industry Ho's" in general:

STOP releasing moronic CRAP! Maybe then we would be willing to BUY it...

Long Live Indies!!!

http://www.guitaristworks.com/forum/vie ... b3a3bf2e13

My original quest however was from a technical/performance/compatibility standpoint...

sleepyhollow · Post by **sleepyhollow** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:22 pm

Microsoft is a big mafia monopoly Corporation. Their "Vista" only "Games for Windows" is a future thing that will make all gamers require to have "Vista" for the "next" "game" to come out in the future, no "Vista" no "Games". Micro$hit allowing you, the consumer who paid your hard earned money for their NSA/RIAA "crappy" operating system only, and only allows you to make "certain" and "few" to none? changes to your hardware, such as "mobo" or "ram" or "hard-drive"? or "video-card" so you can upgrade maybe what? 1 or 2 times? What if there is an error, storm, virus, this or that? Their milking "stupid" consumers, yes, exactly "stupid" consumers who don't even own the product they "purchased", crazy, you must understand where this is all headed, Micro$hit controlling with whoever "NSA/Commie Government" etc. all what we do, see, buy or have on our computer/internet, that's the future, say "No, and F-U" to Micro$hit and big communist corporations just like it. That's my rant.

DaddyRabbit · Post by **DaddyRabbit** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:19 pm

sleepyhollow wrote:Microsoft is a big mafia monopoly Corporation. Their "Vista" only "Games for Windows" is a future thing that will make all gamers require to have "Vista" for the "next" "game" to come out in the future, no "Vista" no "Games". Micro$hit allowing you, the consumer who paid your hard earned money for their NSA/RIAA "crappy" operating system only, and only allows you to make "certain" and "few" to none? changes to your hardware, such as "mobo" or "ram" or "hard-drive"? or "video-card" so you can upgrade maybe what? 1 or 2 times? What if there is an error, storm, virus, this or that? Their milking "stupid" consumers, yes, exactly "stupid" consumers who don't even own the product they "purchased", crazy, you must understand where this is all headed, Micro$hit controlling with whoever "NSA/Commie Government" etc. all what we do, see, buy or have on our computer/internet, that's the future, say "No, and F-U" to Micro$hit and big communist corporations just like it. That's my rant.

Sleepy,

Don't hold back, say what ya' feel man

To be honest though, everything you describe about Microsofts (or Microsluts if you prefer) behavior is totally "Capitalist Pig" mindset. Communism is about "everything should be free to all the people".

If you have ever read any of the EULAs the software has NEVER been "owned by the individual" from the Windows 3.1 days. The same applies to OS X, while it will run PERFECTLY fine on an Intel based PC Apple decided to "lock" it to Apple hardware so they would not lose on hardware sales, and I will reiterate how FULL of DRM iTunes (and MusicMatch and many others) is. Your company has probably "owned" your intellectual property since the day you signed on board, NONE of this is NEW stuff...

That said, WOW this thread has taken an unexpected turn! Can anyone give me a "technical" reason that I shouldn't "Vista" even though I already am...

My performance is pretty damned good so far...

The email transfer and "Files and Settings transfer" from XP is severely broken,

HP driver support is useless...screw HP

Nvidia needs to work a little harder (at least on their "supposedly" DX10 parts drivers.

The removal of DirectSound support REALLY SUX! I didn't buy an X-Fi for "fake" 3d sound.... C'mon MS move some of those DRM developers over to allowing "legacy" EAX support (couldn't resist

) although the fault for this lies more heavily on the Creative Labs "monopoly"...

The whole Intel ViiV thing sucks as well... Tried it for all of 20 minutes before going to "Add/Remove"

Baddad53 · Post by **Baddad53** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:09 pm

danijelzi wrote:You might need Vista when DirectX 10 games are released, since there will be no DX10 for XP (I think). If you want to play DX10 games, of course...

Every article from developers I read about DX10 games states that they will be back compatible with 9. That may change in five years but no game developer is going to cut off a huge PC gamer customer base still with XP and waiting for Vista SP1. Of course if you meant DX10 eye candy only.

DaddyRabbit · Post by **DaddyRabbit** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:30 pm

Baddad53 wrote:
danijelzi wrote:You might need Vista when DirectX 10 games are released, since there will be no DX10 for XP (I think). If you want to play DX10 games, of course...
Every article from developers I read about DX10 games states that they will be back compatible with 9. That may change in five years but no game developer is going to cut off a huge PC gamer customer base still with XP and waiting for Vista SP1. Of course if you meant DX10 eye candy only.

Excellent point! All of the "next gen" games will be playble on DX9/XP but the new DX10 features will be for the "Vista/DX10 crowd" This has been this way for years (Glide to DX7 to DX8 to DX9 and throw in OpenGL) nuthin' "new" in the game. Hopefully the drivers situation will work itself out by then because I'd like some DX10 shweetness!

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:47 pm

My laptop has Vista, but again the DRM thing doesn't bother me because all I do on my laptop is homework, if I want movies/actual content my XP-based desktop will suit for that. And besides, as fast as they make defenses, people will find ways to crack them...

sleepyhollow · Post by **sleepyhollow** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:43 am

Sleepy,

Don't hold back, say what ya' feel man

To be honest though, everything you describe about Microsofts (or Microsluts if you prefer) behavior is totally "Capitalist Pig" mindset. Communism is about "everything should be free to all the people".
[/quote]

Sorry to interrupt you RabbitDaddy, but Communism is not "everything should be free to all the people". If you think that Communism is great, You should go and tell that to people of Eastern Europe, who were shot at by foreign "Communist Russian" tanks on their land. Thousands of people died because of communism, hell, in Russia, the Jewish Stalin Communist murdered, wait, exterminated about 100-million Russian Orthodox Christians, is this "communism" so great? Only for a Christian-hating Jew maybe. My families country of Poland during Communism were shot at in shops by foreign tanks, which rolled our streets with their flags. Heh, (really not much has changed really, still under Jewish control..)Communism killed more than 100 million Orthodox Christians in Russia, tell that to non-Jew Orthodox Russian people, who live in outskirts of the rich-mafia Russia of Moscow that Communism is great, tell it to the victims. Hitler wasn't evil, Stalin was, but Stalin isn't mentioned anywhere, heh, mostly in today's history books, movies etc..as the "evil" one, now is he? No..Hitler is, but you know what Stalin who sent 100+million Orthodox Russian Christians to death camps isn't? Well, he was Jewish. My rant.

ibleet · Post by **ibleet** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:33 pm

C'mon guys, really! I dont mean to be rude, but I didnt join this forum to listen to crap like this. Not sure how political history fits into "general computing".

DaddyRabbit · Post by **DaddyRabbit** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:05 pm

Yes this thread is getting way sidetracked from it's original intention, which was to provoke a "pros vs. cons" technical and usability discussion about Microsofts latest OS.

Post by **DMB2000uk** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:09 pm

ibleet wrote:C'mon guys, really! I dont mean to be rude, but I didnt join this forum to listen to crap like this. Not sure how political history fits into "general computing".

Amen to that

Surprised no-one piped up before now

Dan

kenc51 · Post by **kenc51** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:17 pm

Keep on-topic or this thread will be locked!

Thanks,
Ken

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:48 pm

Pros
- Fancy interface
- DX10 support
- May be "easier" for some people to use, depends on opinion
- More secure from user stupidity than a stock XP installation with no additional software on said XP system
Cons
- Uses more memory and in general requires a more powerful computer
- Price
- Incompatible hardware/software
- Draconian DRM
- Lower FPS in games
- SLI/CrossFire support incomplete/nonexistent
- Driver issues (beyond dual-card setups)

Tim Burton · Post by **Tim Burton** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:09 pm

Only for a Christian-hating Jew maybe.

Ironically, he hated Orthodox Jews as much as he did Christians. He slaughtered the Orthodox Jewish Community as much as he did the EO Christians.