How is this?

[Zertz]

Any reason NOT to get Active PFC? Since nobody has perfect power and most good PSUs have it now. It seems like 1 spent for 1 recovered doesn't really matter, it's not going to slow down your PC or make it explode... Soon enough all PSUs will have Active PFC and nobody will be talking about it.


Anyways, the Corsair PSU is a very good choice!

[Merlin]

it seems this thread is now the PFC or not thread (which is fine by me). Nein let me ask you another question. My understanding is that PFC stands for Power Flow Control. So Active Power Flow Control would, by its definition , indicate that the power supply actively keeps track of how much power each item plugged into it needs and adjusts how much it supplies accordingly. While I do understand what you mean when you say that in Dallas we may not need active PFC as much as someone in Bombay India since our power supply is more stable, is it not still true that IF you have active PFC your are safer against power surges and spikes than if you do not have active PFC. Even in Dallas there are times when my lights flicker and go out for short periods due to storms or other external factors. I know that Active PFC is not a substitute for a UPS but doesn't it provide some protection for those that don't have UPS? I mean there has to be some reason they are now marketing PSUs with that feature...........

[Zertz]

I mean there has to be some reason they are now marketing PSUs with that feature...........

It makes dicecca happy

[dicecca112]

[Nein]

it seems this thread is now the PFC or not thread (which is fine by me). Nein let me ask you another question. My understanding is that PFC stands for Power Flow Control. So Active Power Flow Control would, by its definition , indicate that the power supply actively keeps track of how much power each item plugged into it needs and adjusts how much it supplies accordingly.

PFC = Power Factor Correction.
PFC = Power Flow Control.

Both do the same job, Power Factor Correction performed input flow control, Power Flow Control performed output factor correction.

Power Flow Control is done by the power company, if properly done no Power Factor Correction required at your house.

If not then Power Factor Correction required at your house, but it would not recover as much wasted power as proper Power Flow Control provided. You can recover some not all wasted WTF power from improper Power Flow Control.

While I do understand what you mean when you say that in Dallas we may not need active PFC as much as someone in Bombay India since our power supply is more stable, is it not still true that IF you have active PFC your are safer against power surges and spikes than if you do not have active PFC. Even in Dallas there are times when my lights flicker and go out for short periods due to storms or other external factors. I know that Active PFC is not a substitute for a UPS but doesn't it provide some protection for those that don't have UPS?

NO.

PFC is a power conditioner function, it provided partial correction to lousy power sources, UPS protected against loss of power source.

I mean there has to be some reason they are now marketing PSUs with that feature...........

PSU's salesmen will not convince you to buy what you don't need, they do not want to make a sale at your expense. For example - The power company salesmen preferred that you know the required cost of "oversupply".

It seems like 1 spent for 1 recovered doesn't really matter, it's not going to slow down your PC or make it explode... Soon enough all PSUs will have Active PFC and nobody will be talking about it.

I'll buy a pet rock for my PSU as it wouldn't slow it down or make it explode...

[Merlin]

My question still is....doesn't PFC provide SOME protection against power dips and surges that happen everywhere?

[dicecca112]

My question still is....doesn't PFC provide SOME protection against power dips and surges that happen everywhere?

not enough for it to matter. It does little to nothing

[Merlin]

I wanted to find out all I could about this PFC thing so I wrote to PCPOWER and Cooling. They sent me back a link to herehttp://www.pcpower.com/technology/terminology/
and said that the EU requires active PFC and the US will soon as well. It seems the main reason is to make it easier for the supply side( TXU for me) to keep up with a moving target(how much power you use) by adjusting the power factor up to a stable number rather than allowing it to fluctuate. Active PFC will not save you money, it may even cost you a little more but it does help to make your grid more stable.

[Nein]

It definitely would make TXU job easier, TXU would not need to have better power grid to perform Power Flow Control well, the infra-structure cost to do so passed down to their customers.

Since Power Factor Correction could not save as much wasted power as proper Power Flow Control could, the customers will pay for the "oversupply" difference, and also the power used for Power Factor Correction.

It's a win-win for TXU and PSU makers as all customers would be required to have it.

[Zertz]

It's a win-win for TXU and PSU makers as all customers would be required to have it.

PSUs with PFC aren't more expensive, it's just that they are generally better.

600w POS with 10A on 12V = $50*
600w good PSU with 40A on 12V also has PFC = 100$*
*made up numbers don't yell at me if they're wrong

You're not paying for the PFC, you're paying for an overall better product.

It's really only a win-win for TXU here.

[Merlin]

If you read what they say on PC Power and coolings site it is not simply a matter of the power supplier having "dirty" power. It is in fact a matter of us (the consumer) having a whole bunch of different electrical devicesa that have variable Power Factors. The more low power factor devices you have hooked up in your home that harder it is to "manage" the grid. All the wires,transformers,breakers and other hardware have to be larger to deal with the "backflow" of "oversupply" that isnt used. I would think that it wont be long before we have to have a Power conditioner attached to our homes in order to help regulate the Grid. It seems the bottom line is that we really have no choice....PFC is required in Europe and I believe here also.

[Nein]

You're not paying for the PFC, you're paying for an overall better product.

In some places which needed it, active PFC is a better product.

In some other places such as Japan, active PFC is for retards - 1 million Japanese active PFC PSUs all spent power recovering nothing for the power spent is pure stupidity.

[Illuminati]

Just saw this topic and I have a question that I don't think has been asked yet...

How come our testing shows less power consumption for active PFC PSUs?
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/348/11/

Is it just because PSU makers happen to make the active PFC PSU's more efficient and that it has nothing to do with active PFC? At least here in STL, our testing shows that these PSUs actually save you money, not cost you more... Thanks.

[Nein]

Ha ha... Very good question. I wasn't going ask what kind of active PFC testing that was?

"Active PFC didn't correct for PSU internal inefficiency, it corrected for external wasted power from source power deficiency."

"The most efficient power supplies have Active Power Factor Correction (Active PFC). Active PFC power supplies use a circuit to correct the power factor, which menas Active PFC power supplies are able to generate a theoretical power factor of over 95%. Active Power Factor Correction also markedly diminishes total harmonics, automatically corrects for AC input voltage, and is capable of a full range of input voltage."

[Zertz]

Is it just because PSU makers happen to make the active PFC PSU's more efficient and that it has nothing to do with active PFC? At least here in STL, our testing shows that these PSUs actually save you money, not cost you more... Thanks.

That was exactly my point. Good PSUs (high efficiency, good amps) just happen to have PFC while the crappy ones don't.

This whole thread should just say: buy a good PSU; you'll save a few dollars every year and your computer will work better.

[dicecca112]

Is it just because PSU makers happen to make the active PFC PSU's more efficient and that it has nothing to do with active PFC? At least here in STL, our testing shows that these PSUs actually save you money, not cost you more... Thanks.

That was exactly my point. Good PSUs (high efficiency, good amps) just happen to have PFC while the crappy ones don't.

This whole thread should just say: buy a good PSU; you'll save a few dollars every year and your computer will work better.

Or buy a good PSU so your expensive rig doesn't go boom

[Illuminati]

so what I'm hearing is that, ideally, if you lived in Japan, you would want a high efficient PSU without active PFC.

if you live anywhere else, there is no such thing since active PFC is part of every high efficient PSU. And as far as I can tell in this thread, Active PFC may not be necessary everywhere in the states, but it isn't going to hurt anything. I bet that with many of the low-budget rural electric cooperatives, Active PFC will actually be a good thing for the states.

But here is the winner: Get a high efficient PSU even if it has to come with Active PFC over a low efficient PSU that does not have PFC. The premium of paying for Active PFC and the better quality PSU will more than pay for itself.

Many of you will find this whole discussion worthless since PSUs that save you money happen to have Active PFC. You are going to get it whether you really need it or not... and you are still going to save money!

The important thing is that inefficient PSUs are for retards!

[Merlin]

The whole thing started with me asking if the selected PSU met with approval ( I didn't want Dicecca to ...correct my thinking again) Dan had an alternate choice that I dint see the Active PFC on its description so I asked IF I needed PFC. Here we are.

[dicecca112]

see if you had just PMed me, we would have never had this informative explanation

[Merlin]

HaHa Ha...true enough....but now we all have a better understanding of PFC.