tempted to splurge on watercooling

[stopthekilling77]

after reading Miazga82's thread, seeing the Swamp Monster, and some of the other rigs...

i'm beginning to want to cut down the noise in my super-noisy system by going the WC route.

just toying with the thought, especially with a decent tax return coming my way.
i DO have to be fiscally responsible, but i really REALLY would like to have a better performing, QUIETER, and cooler system.

i'm thinking for starters i just want to get the E6750 under water and make my board more OC friendly, as i'd had trouble breaking the 3.5Ghz barrier on air.
maybe the NB too since its a 680i board?

i'd want a good blend of performance, low noise, and room to grow (GPU once i can afford it)

or maybe i should wait until i have a new 9xxx series card before i make the transition to water?

thoughts?

[ScottLovesDogs]

Watercooling can be quiet, but it is not considered the answer to quieting down a noisey system. If you look around at the articles and the forums at http://www.silentpcreview.com, you will soon learn that air cooling is the preferred way with very quiet systems. You might want to look into a better and quieter air cooling system. The opinion over at Silent PC Review is that air is quieter, and water is for performance enthusiasts.

That said, water can be very effective, easily much more so than air, and is not that expensive. Look at some of the new Swiftech kits. However, what is stopping you from reaching your GHz goal may not be the cooling system. There may be other limitations that you run up against.

FWIW I have a Swiftech H2O-120 kit, from before they combined the cpu waterblock and pump, and it cools very, very well. But, at least in my Lian-Li PC-A10A case, the pump is certainly audible. On the other hand, I like a very quiet and contemplative environment and listen almost exclusively to classical music (interrupted at times by the deafening and bone-shaking racket of my three Great Danes barking, but that is another story . . .), so the music is not usually loud enough to cover the computer's sounds. If the ambient sound level where you use your computer is higher, you may not mind the sound of the pump.

Also, aluminum cases are well known to be the hardest to silence, so that certainly does contribute to the sound of my computer. When I get around to applying damping material to the slide-out motherboard tray and the insides of the case, it will be much quieter. Not that it is noisey now, just that I can hear it.

[Bio-Hazard]

Water cooling can be completely silent if built correctly, you can even run a OC'd system on a passive radiator if it large enough, simple fact. If you get the correct pump (MCP655 adjustable) it can be turned down to a point to where its completely silent. Just build smart and you can have a great performing loop with little to no noise.........

The attached temp is right now with onlt 1 fan running at 7v on the main radiator.

[Methious]

I sat on the fence for years with water cooling. Now I wish I'd made the transition long ago. One suggestion for peace of mind, start with non-conductive coolant, if you have an opps moment it'll protect your equipment.

I'd start with the swiftech triple 120mm radiator, gives you room to grow. I searched forever to find prices on it. Here's the best cheapest link I found after much searching. http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR320-QP- ... -3320.html It comes with fan mount screws but I went hardware store for longer mount bolts, just take a fan nut with you and get bolts that fit the fan nut and some nuts for those, bolt goes through the casing, then I used some old felt washers to prevent scratching, then the nut to hold the bolt stable, then screw it into radiator and tighten the nut. Cheap mounting kit.

Runs 45 over there, and they have Yate Loon 120mm fans for 3 bucks apiece (ask KenC about those their pretty good and the 43 cfm are dead quiet), so for 54 you have the radiator and fans, same price as just the radiators most places (plus mine was here in 2 days).

Then it depends on what you want, 3/8" or 1/2" I went 3/8 inch because I traded for the pumps. Half inch cools better but requires a stronger hence more expensive pump. The swiftech MCP350 pump (3/8") I got is also dead quiet. Runs 69-75 about every where pushes 92 gallons an hour. Swiftech micro res runs 15 on frozencpu.com, the pros use a T line with a fill port and no res, I'm a noob I got a reservoir.

Then you got to have a CPU water block, I picked the swiftech apogee gt extreme universal. More economical to port across platforms than buying Intel or Amd specific blocks. Runs about 50.

NB water block I got Zalman, I'd have gotten the swiftech nb but I didn't think it'd fit my board. Runs about 30. It's a little more expensive going part by part, but the mini kit from swiftech has the dual 120mm rad. Will handle cpu/nb or cpu/gpu but a tad small for cpu/nb/gpu which is where I'm headed. The triple has 50% better cooling capacity according to Swiftech.

Then for coolant you can use antifreeze and distilled water (5% no more than 10%), but at first I'd get the fesser non-conductive water from this web site http://www.frozencpu.com, they have uncolored for 6.99/32 ounces, plenty for a fill and some left for refills. Throw in a little water based dye and you got cool colors. Not much though as it is conductive. That's a 6.99 piece of mind move so you can sleep better until you get used to it.

Then like 12 hose clamps for 3 bucks from the same web site as the radiator came from, ran 3 bucks. Throw on some hardware store 33 cent a foot 3/8" interior diameter 1/2" outer diameter hose and your good to go. Others will recommend better hose, I agree but not to start with, use the cheap stuff then when you get comfortable buy the 2+ dollar a foot tygon or what ever.

If you want go 1/2 inch on the pump, they'll put 1/2 inch barbs on the same radiator. What you get, much better cooling and if it turns out like mine a machine so quiet I can sit on it and not hear it. Given portability to future builds its worth it. (to me at least) Plus it looks cool as heck. If you go water PM me and I can give you a steer to some used well maintained parts from a reliable member (pending his permission of course).

[kenc51]

Tubing size doesn't matter one bit, it all depends on combining parts that complement each other! Some blocks work better with 1/2", other 3/8" and some work well with both.
The Swiftech blocks work best with high pressure / flow, but still perform well with a smaller pump.

One of the best setups you can get would be the Swiftech GTX block, Swiftech MCP655 pump, Thermochill PA120.3 radiator and some good fans.

[stopthekilling77]

Tubing size doesn't matter one bit, it all depends on combining parts that complement each other! Some blocks work better with 1/2", other 3/8" and some work well with both.
The Swiftech blocks work best with high pressure / flow, but still perform well with a smaller pump.

One of the best setups you can get would be the Swiftech GTX block, Swiftech MCP655 pump, Thermochill PA120.3 radiator and some good fans.

the Apogee GTX block? i'm looking around for the right links

[kenc51]

Tubing size doesn't matter one bit, it all depends on combining parts that complement each other! Some blocks work better with 1/2", other 3/8" and some work well with both.
The Swiftech blocks work best with high pressure / flow, but still perform well with a smaller pump.

One of the best setups you can get would be the Swiftech GTX block, Swiftech MCP655 pump, Thermochill PA120.3 radiator and some good fans.

the Apogee GTX block? i'm looking around for the right links

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/APOGEEGTX.asp
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp
http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php

[stopthekilling77]

anything against prebuilt systems? that Thermochill PA120.3 is freaking expensive. $134 in the states!

[Bio-Hazard]

Nothing pre-built with the Thermochill...........

Thermochill is about the best performing low noise radiatorout there, the Swiftechs will up your temps by a few degrees when using all the same components....

The best performing CPU water block right now isthe D-tek Fusion with the extra nozzel kit, it'll give a few degrees better tempsover the APOGEE GTX.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/dfuuncpubl1.html

[KnightRid]

I have been thinking on this for a couple years, but still have no real idea on what to buy - so I wish you good luck!

I think spending $200 and up for water cooling isnt worth it unless you want to overclock. If you jsut want to silence the computer, spend a $100 on some nice quiet fans. Bigger fans will spin slower for the same airflow and are therefore quieter. (just a tip)

Mike

Now if there was a good water cooling ssytem for $100 that would cool the cpu, gpu, and chipset - then I might jump in, but for non-overclockers (or us poor saps that have MB's that wont allow overclocking) it isnt worth paying more than that.

[stopthekilling77]

Now if there was a good water cooling ssytem for $100 that would cool the cpu, gpu, and chipset - then I might jump in, but for non-overclockers (or us poor saps that have MB's that wont allow overclocking) it isnt worth paying more than that.

if you want to spend around $125 on a WC kit, i found this Thermaltake CL-W0005-01 BigWater kit http://www.xoxide.com/tt-bigwater-kit.html
dunno how WELL it'd work but if price is the only thing holding you back then take a gander, there are even some $50-$100 WC gadgets in there too (i wouldnt buy any of them because i lean towards the "you get what you pay for" mentality, but feel free to check it out)

upon searching the net for pre-built systems, i'm not really feeling buying ANY pre-built system, because for the money i might as well just save a little bit more money and build my own system that will pack the best performance per dollar spent.

questions/thoughts:
- seeing how much of a newbie i am at the thought of constructing this, is there a good wiki or forum on the CONCEPTS of why one kind of element is better than another? say tubing size or pump speed. :S its tough to try to balance all the new ideas in my head, even from the watercooling sticky Dicecca posted
- i'd want to keep everything INSIDE my case, although i'm not exactly keen on modding my P-180 unless it'd turn out as sexy lookin as Dan's :D is there any way i might be able to NOT scar my baby?
- i've got 2 of THESE suckers in my case right now, in addition to the 3 case fans already installed with the case (one of those attached to the U-120X and the other on the top front fan mount, blowing over my HDD) would i want to keep these or switch to something like the Yate Loons?
- tallying up the cost of this with JUST the 3 components Ken suggested (not that i'm not taking everyones suggestions into consideration, but i haven't looked around for a total on any of the other setup costs yet) without tubing, extra mounting stuff, fluid, or other parts it comes to about $260 for just the Apogee GTX, MCP665 pump, and Thermochill PA120.3 radiator... WITHOUT shipping. sure i want the best stuff, but its not like i can just newegg these parts, and i'm tentative on where these parts can be found for the lowest end prices.

i've got weeks ahead of me before i can even start thinking about doing this, so i'm going to try to hear everyone out and figure if this is for me, or if i might just want to replace the fans in my system to see if that'll cut down the noise... i have to to RMA my mobo right now so it'd be nice to just put it all together once i get the board back and not have to rip it apart again, you know? hope this post wasn't too long for you guys! :D

[kenc51]

You don't have to get the big Thermochill PA120.3 (fits 3x 12mm fans) --> You can and should only upgrade to something of this size later on, especially since you want to start out cooling the CPU.

You can get one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835108075 -- Swiftech H20-120 - $150
This will cool your CPU nicely. FZ1 has one on his Quad which is clocked to <4GHz


Another option is the Swiftech H20-220 - which is the same as above, but has a larger RAD. This would allow you to add more waterblocks down the line.

The H20-220 kits mount the Rad outside the case, but it's still neat and tidy.


You can always get the first kit mentioned and then buy another 120mm or 80mm Rad later on and add that to the loop.

It's not as daunting as it seems!

[stopthekilling77]

hmmm would the one FZ1 has be able to accommodate a NB block as well?

also, if i do go watercooling i'd like to be able to cool my GPU as well (not this 7800GT though) and it doesnt make too much sense for me to go for 1 kit and then, when i have the $ to get a new GPU, have to start from scratch to get my GPU under water as well.

hmm

[Methious]

That was my mentality when I got the triple 120mm, none of the kits had more than dual 120mm. After asking Bio-Hazard about it I went with the Swiftech triple 120mm so I could run the GPU/CPU/NB all on a single rad if I wanted. According to him the thermochill at twice the price only gave a 1 or 2c performance gain. Not enough for me to justify the hefty price.

I traded for my pump but if I hadn't I'd want the adjustable MCP655. Scale up and down as needed because max cooling isn't needed for every day operation. If you need a little more cooling they have the 53cfm Yate Loon fans same price, toss in a fan controller then it's scalable to adjust for temps and noise. KenC and Bio have the in track on the "Best" I'll leave that to them. I did mine spur of the moment, in the don't break the bank method. After trading for pumps, laboring for water blocks, I actually have under $75 invested cash, now that's hard to beat.

It's not that hard to do, I took extra time leak testing and stuff, but the guys here were a tremendous help and other than getting the "water in my rig willies" it went with out a hitch. If it bothers you you can use Worm Drive clamps, just be careful not to over tighten them.

[Bio-Hazard]

If you want to cool a single GPU along with a OC'd CPU, I'd go with at least the 220 version of the Swiftech kit. Then if needed down the line get another radiator or setup a seperate loop for the GPU depending how hot things are getting.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/H20-220-COMPACT.asp



I like having a dual loop setup, it makes life so much easier and cooler when setting things up to run at the max, but then again, I'm completely into over kill and I can run my system passive depending on what I'm wanting to do............

[stopthekilling77]

If you want to cool a single GPU along with a OC'd CPU, I'd go with at least the 220 version of the Swiftech kit. Then if needed down the line get another radiator or setup a seperate loop for the GPU depending how hot things are getting.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/H20-220-COMPACT.asp

I like having a dual loop setup, it makes life so much easier and cooler when setting things up to run at the max, but then again, I'm completely into over kill and I can run my system passive depending on what I'm wanting to do............

i LIKE that. the ability to handle growth is a BIG thing for me considering my wanting to upgrade to a new GPU within the year and watercool it. i like the fact that i wouldn't have to mod my case and that the fact that the radiator is outside of the case (yet behind it, so i wont bump it or anything) which will keep it as cool as can be.

for about $200 that Swiftech H20-220 really seems to fit what i'd need on all fronts. seeing how this would/will be my first setup, i wouldn't want to spent the top dollar just to squeeze out the best performance possible.

ok so the TENTATIVE shopping list includes the H20-220. that covers my CPU, nothing else as far as i can see, right? i'd need the necessary equipment to add the NB to the setup.

take into consideration my motherboard, the ASUS 680i P5N32-E SLI
it has copper heatsinks on the NB, but i *think* i can unscrew them. but i dont see any holes in the board for mounting a block.

hrm, maybe i'd have to invest in a new motherboard to cool the NB as well?

[DMB2000uk]

P180 Internal rad placement really is a bitch.

There literally is only the top of the case with enough room to mount it. There actually would be enough room to mount a 360mm rad there, if you use the existing back fan hole and cut forward from there. I couldn't do that in my rig though as the 8pin 12v aux is right under the radiator and wouldn't give it enough clearance to fit.

Another thing to note would be if you went with the MCP655, where would you put it? I had to hack out the lower 5.25" drive bay, I do'nt think that comes off as clean in the new design, if you have the design case with the almost tacked on bottom 5.25" drive bay then you'd be in luck for clean modding if you did decide to remove it.

- i'd want to keep everything INSIDE my case, although i'm not exactly keen on modding my P-180 unless it'd turn out as sexy lookin as Dan's :D is there any way i might be able to NOT scar my baby?

I know I think my rig is sexy, but it still makes me smile to see other people do too ^_^

Think of it as plastic surgery, rather than butchering your case to fit watercooling

Dan

Edit: Yeah, you could wimp out and have the rad on the back of the case too...

[martini161]

the things i circled are the mounting holes for the nb. but if you were to cool it, you would either have to drill off the heatpipe that goes to the mosfets, or buy a new cooler/block for them. thats what i hate about heatpipes. and BTW: there not real copper, asus thinks were stupid so they took alumin and painted it coper cooler ;)

[stopthekilling77]

the things i circled are the mounting holes for the nb. but if you were to cool it, you would either have to drill off the heatpipe that goes to the mosfets, or buy a new cooler/block for them. thats what i hate about heatpipes. and BTW: there not real copper, asus thinks were stupid so they took alumin and painted it coper cooler ;)

ahh! okay, cool i just took a flashlight and confirmed what i saw

when i take this board out to get it ready for the RMA, i'll make sure the heatsink is detachable. i believe the 2 NB pins and 2 heatsink pins are holding it on, and it shouldn't be too hard to undo it.

still, i need to get a complete plan to get this PC under water, including every part i'd need. these fans are WAY too loud and i want to keep the sound to a minimum.
if you look at this:

you can see where my fans are (1 exhaust on back, 1 exhaust on top, 1 on the HSF, one in front of the HDD bay, and 1 in front of the PSU)
what would be the best fan situation for my case with a watercooling setup?
also, considering that the NB and CPU are so close together, what NB options do i have? or is it even an issue?

[kenc51]

You could get an Antec Spotcool Fan to cool the chipset area
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75018
It will keep your costs down and also your warranty intact ;)


I'd also keep the fans as is, just use a fan controller to dial the speed down a tad.
If they still make too much noise (some do at low RPM) then replace them later on.