Thinking about adding water to my PC...

[Sporg]

So I'm wanting to add some water cooling to my PC. I've been reading stuff here and also over at xtremesystems.

Current system:
Thermaltake Armor
C2D X6800
Intel 975XBX2
HSI HD 4850 (thanks LR!)
4GB Corsair XMS2 (4x1)
WD 250GB rattle platter
Antech TruPower Trio 650W
CPU fan is a coolermaster ufo I think (then again I could be smoking crack)
DVD-ROM
DVD-RW

Right now I'm air cooled. I have a 120mm sucking in the front. On the back side I have another 120mm with an 80mm just above it. I also have an 80mm blowing out the top. I recently cleaned out the little filters on the front of the case, which actually improved airflow a bit. As I was messing around I pulled the filters out from the panel in front of the intake fan - which helped a bit more.

So right now my core temps are hitting low 60's when under load. At idle I'm only around 50oC.

For the 4850 I edited the fan speed to either 60 or 65%. It jumps up to high 60's - low 70's when under load.

So I would really like to cool this sucker down. Those temps may not be horrid, but are higher than I like them to be.

I am trying to put a plan and parts list together so I can get this sucker cool. I'm looking for quality parts that last a long time - I don't do well with high maintenance.

Rad: PA120.2 (or maybe a PA120.3) - is the .3 overkill?
Fans: Yate Loons from Petras...
Pump: MCP655 - a lot of folks are running these and the reviews are excellent
CPU waterblock: Apogee GTX - another one that seems to stand up well to the test of time
Another one that looks okay is the D-Tek Fuzion - thoughts on this one?
Res: Swiftech-Microres - saw the post from XstollieX about his problem. Any other recommended?

No we get into the part where I'm not sure what to do. The HD4850 is one hot cookie. What to use for a GPU block? Or stay with air and try one of the aftermarket coolers?
I saw the MCW-60 and the Danger Den Maze4 Acetal. Any thoughts? I haven't decided 100% what to do. If I throw the GPU into the loop, then I should probably go with the bigger rad, right?

For tubing I was looking at Tygon 3603 .5" ID x .75" OD. I don't want any kinking, thoughts on this or is there better? I saw where dicecca got some better temps going with silver tygon.
Now with the .5"ID I will need fittings with an OD of .5" - I'm assuming to go with barbed fittings and worm-drive clamps.

Another thing I'm trying to decide on - to try and fit it all inside or mount the rad on outside. I'm not opposed to modding my case. It looks like it would be fairly difficult to mount the 120.3 inside, which is one reason why I was looking at the 120.2. I'm sure I could fabricate some sort of "box" to mount on the outside that would be effective. Considering that my computer room is somewhat warm anyway I may just stay outside the case.

Most important to me is cooling performance. Any thoughts on the direction I'm heading?

[martini161]

i would recommend all swiftech products, they are very high quality. 1/2'' tubing is more than thick enough.i know methious has a 3x120mm rad mounted on the back of his armour, dont have a link to that thread right now. ill see if i can find it

[DMB2000uk]

How do you feel about having to change out the watercooling fluid every few months? Granted I haven't touched mine since april, so you can get away without doing it for a long time if you are lazy. But you are supposed to clean it out every now and again, so it's not quite something you can set and completely forget.

I currently like the Feser company's XChanger rads. They seem to perform slightly better than the Thermochill PA's do. Of course these are the top end of the rad market, if you want something a bit more sensibly priced then Swiftech are the way to go, they seem to be the price/performance sweetspot.
It's my way of thinking to get the most cooling you can fit in! So go for a triple if you can fit it in somewhere. It also works in your favour if you were to throw something extra in the loop at a later date.

The D-Tek fusion is better than the GTX, and has further tweakability (for more performance) by nozzle inserts. If I were going for a new rig, I'd go for the fusion.

Real watercoolers use a T-Line
(Any res you want to get should work fine though)

Bio has been fine with the microres:

I've been using the same raz from the day they were released without any issues..........................

The trick is not to over tighten any of the fasteners that secure the rez its self.................

You have two options with the graphics card, either a core only block like the ones you have been looking at (and use ramsinks on all the other hot components), or a full body one that covers ram as well.

Core only
- The advantages are that they are less restrictive (so you get more water flowing and better temps for the other components) and can be used on a different card after you upgrade this one.
- The disadvantages are that you need to use lots of ramsinks which means you need some airflow around that area to keep them cool.

Full Cover
- The advantages are that it keeps everything cool (which is the big advantage of watercooling)
- The disadvantages are that the blocks are pricey, can only be used for one card and are more restrictive than their core only counterparts


Dice saw temperature improvements when he went to the silver Tygon as he started off with some clearflex stuff that was kinking. The Tygon stuff is pretty much the best pipe you can get for watercooling, and it's one of the most resistant to kinks. If you are worried or have to make some sharp bends then you can look into getting some anti kink coils.

Your OD with the Tygon is more like 0.75" (it's pretty thick stuff). Go for single barbed fittings if you can, else the multiple barbed ones will do. I built a watercooling setup for a friend with worm drive clamps and they were a pita to get tightened (I use those nylon crimp things that everyone says not to, they came with all my swiftech stuff and I've not had any problems with them). I can't remember what it is that most people use (when they aren't using worm drives) I'll have to have a look around at some point.

Having the rad inside with a modded case looks the best, but unless you have a decent supply of cool air getting to it it tends to increase the temperatures slightly.

Dan

[martini161]

dans one of those harder-core-than-thou kinda guys ( ), yes it looks better to have your rad inside, but its not really worth all the extra effort IMO unless its just for the sex appeal. dans also one of those lucky guys who has a decent income without a family to waste it like me ( )so he can afford all the high end stuff. the apogee gtx or gt will do you fine if you dont care about one or two degree higer temps.

[DMB2000uk]

dans one of those harder-core-than-thou kinda guys ( ), yes it looks better to have your rad inside, but its not really worth all the extra effort IMO unless its just for the sex appeal. dans also one of those lucky guys who has a decent income without a family to waste it like me ( )so he can afford all the high end stuff. the apogee gtx or gt will do you fine if you dont care about one or two degree higer temps.

haha, If I had a 'decent income' I wouldn't still be running on (most of) the same components in my P180 rig that I built at the end of '06!.

The only reason I have any kind of spare cash is because I don't have any dependants bleeding me dry.

I'll take the 'harder-core-than-thou' comment though. If my sig didn't have so much in it, I'd have it in my sig

Dan

[martini161]

cough cough 4 super expensive fans cough cough expensive rad cough cough e8400? id call that a decent income

[Zertz]

cough cough 4 super expensive fans cough cough expensive rad cough cough e8400? id call that a decent income

lol... you have more expensive CPU/GPU/PSU/RAM

[Bio-Hazard]

Might as well toss in my little bit here.................

Rez or "T" line, either work well, but a rez is much easier for first time water coolers.

The D-Tek Fusion CPU block is better than the Swiftech last I read, but I haven't been keeping up with all the latest gear lately either. But before you jump on a CPU block, wait till next week as Swiftech is releasing a new one, so I'd wait to see just how well it performs...............

I love my Swiftech MCP655 pump, its been going strong also for as long as they have been released................

For tubing (I'm also upgrading mine to this) I'd go with Tygon A-60-G Norprene 1/2in. ID 5/8in. OD Industrial Grade Tubing # AFL0003 with anti kink coils.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tyno1id5odla.html

http://www.jab-tech.com/Coolsleeves-c-251.html

This stuff is super easy to work with and its east to seal with standard plastic squeeze clamps (Same stuff that ships with Swiftech kits).

As for a radiator, I think the Feser company's XChanger rads are a bit over priced, but then again so are the Thermochill (that's what I have). But I would get a triple regardless of which make you decide on (Swiftech, Thermochill or Feser).

To mount it off the back of the Case, Swiftech sells a RadBox cheap special for doing this.

Don't get a full coverage block for your video card, IMHO, they are a waste of money and dump way to much heat into the loop. A simple block on the GPU (Swiftech MCW60) along with heatsinks for the other components is than enough to cool the card properly.

[KnightRid]

Why not just get better fans?

Just curious. Dont you watercoolers drown me or anything ;)

Mike

Yes, I would like to try water cooling myself, but the price point is just too far out there when a fan can cool about the same, except on those totally overclocked monsters that you can only let run for about 5 minutes before they melt the tubing and cause a horrific smoke laden blackout

[Sporg]

I knew I'd get some good feedback!

How do you feel about having to change out the watercooling fluid every few months?

I'm fine with that.

For the GPU, I'd probably go core only and add heatsinks. At least that's what I had planned if I went that route.

The D-Tek Fusion CPU block is better than the Swiftech last I read, but I haven't been keeping up with all the latest gear lately either. But before you jump on a CPU block, wait till next week as Swiftech is releasing a new one, so I'd wait to see just how well it performs

Okay, I'll look closer at the D-Tek and see what happens with the new Swiftech block.

Thanks for the feedback, now back to scratching my head.

Why not just get better fans?

Just curious. Dont you watercoolers drown me or anything ;)

I could get better fans or switch things up a bit. But I have always wanted to try my hand at water cooling. So I'm using heat as my justification! My computer room tends to be quite warm and my temps (while within specs) are just higher than I like.

[martini161]

correct me if im wrong but i thought you didnt have to change out the water if you use a rez? cause if you do then im skrewed

[dicecca112]

You have to change the water out no mater what because over time, even the best loops with start to grow stuff.

[martini161]

LOL i can atest to that when i had to take my loop apart to pot in the north bridge block those tubes were mighty gunky. thought the anti freeze would kill everything

[Bio-Hazard]

Solid color tubing helps to keep stuff from growing a little bit longer than clear tubing because the crap needs light to grow......................

Easiest thing to do is to install a drain line in the loop to make draining quick and painless.............

[Sporg]

So while waiting for reviews of the Apogee GTZ I was looking at parts. Do any of you have inline flow meters installed?

[martini161]

nope, trust me, youll know if your pump isnt working

[DMB2000uk]

No, I think they are just an un-necessary restriction in the loop (even if it is just a little one).

It's easier just to have some program setup to monitor temps, and if it goes over a high threshold just have it beep at you.

Pump failure is very rare, especially with the D5's.

Dan

[Sporg]

nope, trust me, youll know if your pump isnt working

Hehe, I'm sure!

It's easier just to have some program setup to monitor temps, and if it goes over a high threshold just have it beep at you.

I already have that with the Intel monitoring thing, so I should be good to go.

Okay, bored and looking at parts can be bad. Trying to keep myself from buying unnecessary items

Thanks to everyone for the advice up to this point.

[martini161]

btw where are you shopping?

[Sporg]

btw where are you shopping?

I've been looking at prices from a few places. Petras, Danger Den, and da egg. I'm thinking that I'll probably get most everything from Petras though. Do you have other recommendations?