BIGFOOT NETWORKS INTRODUCES AFFORDABLE NEW KILLER K1
- Apoptosis
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BIGFOOT NETWORKS INTRODUCES AFFORDABLE NEW KILLER K1
BIGFOOT NETWORKS INTRODUCES AFFORDABLE NEW KILLER K1
Killerâ„¢ K1 Delivers Superior Online Gaming Performance
[quote]AUSTIN, Texas – February 13, 2007 – Bigfoot Networks, Inc., a research and development company, today introduced the Killer™ K1, a new, more affordable version of its flagship gaming product, the KillerTM NIC. The Killer K1 is available for a limited time from selected e-tailers for a price as low as $149.99 after rebates. Powered by Lag and Latency Reduction (LLR™) Technology, Killer K1 uses Bigfoot Network’s 333 MHz Network Processing Unit (NPU) and 64 Megabytes of dedicated DDR RAM to offer gamers a faster online gaming experience.
“We often hear gamers saying that they believe in the power of LLR Technology but that the Killer NIC is too expensive for their budget.â€
Killerâ„¢ K1 Delivers Superior Online Gaming Performance
[quote]AUSTIN, Texas – February 13, 2007 – Bigfoot Networks, Inc., a research and development company, today introduced the Killer™ K1, a new, more affordable version of its flagship gaming product, the KillerTM NIC. The Killer K1 is available for a limited time from selected e-tailers for a price as low as $149.99 after rebates. Powered by Lag and Latency Reduction (LLR™) Technology, Killer K1 uses Bigfoot Network’s 333 MHz Network Processing Unit (NPU) and 64 Megabytes of dedicated DDR RAM to offer gamers a faster online gaming experience.
“We often hear gamers saying that they believe in the power of LLR Technology but that the Killer NIC is too expensive for their budget.â€
- bigblockmatt
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who the heck is paying that much for a NIC card? When did $150 become affordable?
I play BF2 just fine on DSL on a wireless (G) network.
I play BF2 just fine on DSL on a wireless (G) network.
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- Digital Puppy
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Hi,
I work for Bigfoot Networks (we make the Killer M1 and K1). I just wanted to respond to a few of these replys.
For a casual gamer, just the smoother more reliable network performance can make your gaming more enjoyable.
Welcome to the future. Killer is the only network card with an NPU. Bypassing the windows network stack to gain a performance increase in online gaming.
You could increase your bandwith to 100gb and never see a speed increase until you add two things: bypass the windows network stack, and priorty UDP over TCP.
The other network cards/motherboards claiming to improve your network connection: improve TCP speeds. This does nothing for games. To improve network speed in games, UDP needs to be prioritized over TCP.
And before you even ask: Yes I know there are "routers" that claim UDP priority, but what you need to realize is that the difference between the Killer and a gaming router is that a gaming router is designed to get data to your computer as fast as possible.
Killer is designed to get data to your game as fast as possible once it hits your computer. Killer completely replaces the Windows Networking Stack with a hardware implementation, which allows it to get data to the game faster and more directly. Getting data to the game more quickly means data can get incorporated into the game up to several frames ahead of what users normally experience.
Killer frees up a small amount of CPU cycles because your CPU doesn't have to do networking anymore, and these cycles become critical when you need the CPU power the most -- i.e. -- when bombs are rocking your world in BF2 or when you are raiding Molten Core.
Just to be ultra-clear, the benefits of Killer are additive to the benefits of a gaming router. In other words, one does not replace the other and both offer different types of benefits.
The Killer isn't "just" a network card, it's a linux computer plugged into your PCI slot.
As for consumer analysis; we've done tons of market research, performance testing and so on. Everyone who has actually tried it, agress that it works. Price points are for another debate though; as there's too many factors involved from manufacturing to development costs to profit markups for retailers.
This isn't a mass produced piece of 10-20 year old technology like a normal network interface device.
But the K1 is running at 333mhz instead of 400mhz and is not FNA enabled out of the box (it can be upgraded). There is also the potential that not all FNA products will run at 333mhz, and those will be M1 only.
I work for Bigfoot Networks (we make the Killer M1 and K1). I just wanted to respond to a few of these replys.
For a competitive gamer, every milisecond does count.What's the point, seriously? Unless you computer comes with a really crappy NIC, or you're REALLY into 'every millisecond counts' gaming, no.
For a casual gamer, just the smoother more reliable network performance can make your gaming more enjoyable.
Was it funny when they first released slot based video cards instead of onboard video cards? Was the first GPU funny when they told you it would free up CPU power to improve the apperance of your games? People bashed those too, until they woke up and realized it worked.This is hilarious.
Welcome to the future. Killer is the only network card with an NPU. Bypassing the windows network stack to gain a performance increase in online gaming.
1gb is your bandwith, this has nothing to do with speed. That's the volume of data able to be passed at one time, not the speed at which it's being passed. Having 1gb compared to 10mb may prevent a bottleneck at that point IF you have ton's of data being moved at one time. The reality is, games don't use much data at one time; they need tiny pieces of data being moved faster.
how does this actually help over say gigabit ethernet onboard? connected to your router at 1gb/s your internet isnt' even that fast for most people. you'd have to have a direct tap into optical lines running from one of the major cities.
You could increase your bandwith to 100gb and never see a speed increase until you add two things: bypass the windows network stack, and priorty UDP over TCP.
The other network cards/motherboards claiming to improve your network connection: improve TCP speeds. This does nothing for games. To improve network speed in games, UDP needs to be prioritized over TCP.
And before you even ask: Yes I know there are "routers" that claim UDP priority, but what you need to realize is that the difference between the Killer and a gaming router is that a gaming router is designed to get data to your computer as fast as possible.
Killer is designed to get data to your game as fast as possible once it hits your computer. Killer completely replaces the Windows Networking Stack with a hardware implementation, which allows it to get data to the game faster and more directly. Getting data to the game more quickly means data can get incorporated into the game up to several frames ahead of what users normally experience.
Killer frees up a small amount of CPU cycles because your CPU doesn't have to do networking anymore, and these cycles become critical when you need the CPU power the most -- i.e. -- when bombs are rocking your world in BF2 or when you are raiding Molten Core.
Just to be ultra-clear, the benefits of Killer are additive to the benefits of a gaming router. In other words, one does not replace the other and both offer different types of benefits.
The Killer has it's own CPU, RAM and operating system. Your asking for a computer to be sold for $39.99. We won't reach that price point any time soon.
most id spend for that is $39.99
It may be a kick ass NIC but they sure didn't do much consumer analysis before they marketed the thing.
The Killer isn't "just" a network card, it's a linux computer plugged into your PCI slot.
As for consumer analysis; we've done tons of market research, performance testing and so on. Everyone who has actually tried it, agress that it works. Price points are for another debate though; as there's too many factors involved from manufacturing to development costs to profit markups for retailers.
This isn't a mass produced piece of 10-20 year old technology like a normal network interface device.
The heatsink isn't really that expensive by itself; and was needed to cover all the various processing chips on the card. Removing the heatsink and running the card at a slower speed allowed for some minor reengineering that gives the K1 nearly the same performance as an M1 with a lower manufacturing cost that we pass along to consumers.
Is this the same NIC as before without that ugly-azz heatsink? Is this why it is now "affordable"? Wasn't their other one like $250??
Guess this is their "Value" line.
But the K1 is running at 333mhz instead of 400mhz and is not FNA enabled out of the box (it can be upgraded). There is also the potential that not all FNA products will run at 333mhz, and those will be M1 only.
$150 for the K1 compared to $250 for the M1. It's a price comparison to our own product line. As for who is paying that much. Anyone who wants a more enjoyable online experience; and considering how many we've sold; there's clearly alot of online gamers who want that.who the heck is paying that much for a NIC card? When did $150 become affordable?
There's people who think they play just fine using AOL for games too. I wouldn't, but than I'm a pro gamer so to each his own.I play BF2 just fine on DSL on a wireless (G) network.
- bigblockmatt
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Wow, thanks for the in depth response.
comp specs- too lazy to make a cool looking sig... MB:GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P, AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition 2.8Ghz, CORSAIR TW3X4G1333C9DHX 4GB PC3-10666, ASUS Radeon HD 4870 512MB, SB audigy gamer, WESTERN DIGITAL Caviar Black 500GB, antec P180 case (extra 120mm fan and 80mm fan), Corsair HX Series 620W: ASSEMBLED June 2009
Please feel free to ask any other quesitons as well. If I don't know the answer I will find someone who does.bigblockmatt wrote:Wow, thanks for the in depth response.
I work here as a game tester, not in marketing or engineering. So if my answers come off a bit biased, it's from spending hundreds of hours running the killer against non killer computers.
I was hired for my experience with online games (I've worked at places like sony, and have thousands of hours logged online). If the Killer didn't work, I would be the first in line to point out it's flaws. That is my job, to be a gamer, to be the skeptic, and to performance test every new driver release to ensure we are improving our product as often as we can.
- hainer36
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im gonna say what i think some of us are thinking here:
Cinrellik, when you let one rip, does it smell?
seriously, "Im a pro gamer"...wow, congratulations on that one, good career choice.
and as for the NIC, ive had a thought occur to me, say you get 2 Gigabit network cards for your PCI slots, make the 2 connections work as one, so that you never lag nearly as often as a single would, wouldnt that be cheaper and possibly more effective than a killer nic?
Cinrellik, when you let one rip, does it smell?
seriously, "Im a pro gamer"...wow, congratulations on that one, good career choice.
and as for the NIC, ive had a thought occur to me, say you get 2 Gigabit network cards for your PCI slots, make the 2 connections work as one, so that you never lag nearly as often as a single would, wouldnt that be cheaper and possibly more effective than a killer nic?
- HONkUS
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The first GPU (GeForce 256) offered amazing results that were visible in screenshots and video that could be seen online and in magazines. The truth is that you guys have no way of proving your claim without us buying one of your products and very few people will buy a product if they haven't SEEN what it can do.Was it funny when they first released slot based video cards instead of onboard video cards? Was the first GPU funny when they told you it would free up CPU power to improve the apperance of your games? People bashed those too, until they woke up and realized it worked.
If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
There is nothing wrong with on board NIC's when it comes to gaming and games haven't demanded much innovation in the areas your company is addressing since broadband came along.
Games are continually increasing the demands on the GPU/CPU/RAM NOT the NIC.
You saying that we might be ok with integrated NIC's because we aren't "pro gamers" also is not going to win you any fans or purchases for that matter.
Ill tell you what if your such a "Pro Gamer" then lets get our best gamer running a non killer NIC versus you and your product and see who wins.
- Apoptosis
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Cinrellik wrote:I'm a pro gamer so to each his own.
Cinrellik,
I'm guessing you didn't buy your card either. Since pro gamers are sponsored and given their hardware nearly all for free none really go out and buy their stuff. The last time I talked to John (Fatal1ty) he was talking about the new things he was trying out that companies just sent him. To me it would seem the pro gamer market wouldn't be interested in buying them as they would get them for free.
The casual gamer wouldn't have an interest as their PC would be a $299 Dell special and a $150 or $250 NIC is less than ideal for those users.
The only market that I see is the DIY and those with money that want to have everything ;)
I'm fond of tex mex, so the answer would be: YES!hainer36 wrote:im gonna say what i think some of us are thinking here:
Cinrellik, when you let one rip, does it smell?
I've had numerous career choices in my life. From profesional wrestling to mundane jobs in retail management; as well as running my own business.seriously, "Im a pro gamer"...wow, congratulations on that one, good career choice.
Through the ups and downs, rich or poor there's been one constant passion in my life; and while you can scoff at gaming as a hobby, it's provided me with 30 years of entertainment and fun. I can quote you my achievements and numerous other things that at this point in my life, are meaningless to me. I have to be in a job that I enjoy, doing something that I can be passionate about.
You want my actual title? Quality Assurance Manager. I check everything from game performance to whether the stickers are being put on the box correctly. I call myself a pro gamer by choice, because that is what I take pride in, and gaming above all else is my primary hobby.
Multiple network connections (and they do exist already) do not increase speed. They create more bandwith. Being able to carry larger amounts of data at one time will improve file downloads, it will not improve gaming performance.and as for the NIC, ive had a thought occur to me, say you get 2 Gigabit network cards for your PCI slots, make the 2 connections work as one, so that you never lag nearly as often as a single would, wouldnt that be cheaper and possibly more effective than a killer nic?
Gaming performance relys on tiny bits of data being moved at high speeds. Just because you made your highway wider (bandwith) does not allow you to go any faster.
If anything, adding more network connections (that do not contain thier own NPU) will actually increase the work of your CPU potentially slowing down the windows network stack while it juggles between using both connections and repeats its processing loop twice, instead of once per packet sent.
That choice already exists, I can point you to numerous network cards without an NPU that will enhance your download speeds or web browsing. Those types of protocol will move large volumes in chunks. What you don't see is the pause between those chunks while browsing or downloading.
Those pauses in processing are part of what causes lag in games; and is precisely where the Killers performance gains are intended to fix.
So the chioce is yours: improve your downloading by allowing more volume through per cycle, or improve your gaming by actually speeding up that cycle.
Granted, I have ample Killers to play with at work. I wasn't given one for my home computer. That I had to buy.Apoptosis wrote:Cinrellik wrote:I'm a pro gamer so to each his own.
Cinrellik,
I'm guessing you didn't buy your card either. Since pro gamers are sponsored and given their hardware nearly all for free none really go out and buy their stuff. The last time I talked to John (Fatal1ty) he was talking about the new things he was trying out that companies just sent him. To me it would seem the pro gamer market wouldn't be interested in buying them as they would get them for free.
The casual gamer wouldn't have an interest as their PC would be a $299 Dell special and a $150 or $250 NIC is less than ideal for those users.
The only market that I see is the DIY and those with money that want to have everything ;)
If your spending $299 on a computer, you shouldn't even be looking for any parts upgrades. In which case, reviewing any hardware of any kind is meaningless.
The DIY market is obviously where most parts upgrades are aimed. The other option is to buy a computer with the Killer already installed. Many custom shops now offer computers optomized for online gaming and those start in the $1000 price range.
My own computer at home was put together for around $1200.
The computers at work range from 2 year old Dell XPS systems to top of the line custom built multi thousand dollar projects. That's just the nature of hardware testing, we have to function with as many types of hardware as possible. I usually have about 4 running at any given time, than strip and rebuild with other hardware options as needed for testing.
- Apoptosis
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Have you been able to test different systems at work?
I would like to see a KillerNIC installed and benchmarked on several systems.
Athlon XP 1600+ from 3 years ago
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ from a year ago
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 from current
Would the NIC provide the same improvements for all users or more no?
I would like to see a KillerNIC installed and benchmarked on several systems.
Athlon XP 1600+ from 3 years ago
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ from a year ago
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 from current
Would the NIC provide the same improvements for all users or more no?
- bigblockmatt
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aww, come on guys. don't bash the guy for defending his position and his company's products. you dont have to agree with it, but you dont need to be malicious about it.
Cinrellik, Im not sure if you know the numbers or not, but are these cards mostly sold seperate (as in DIY build their own and buy there own parts) or as builds from companies that build computers like a Dell or something like that?
Cinrellik, Im not sure if you know the numbers or not, but are these cards mostly sold seperate (as in DIY build their own and buy there own parts) or as builds from companies that build computers like a Dell or something like that?
comp specs- too lazy to make a cool looking sig... MB:GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P, AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition 2.8Ghz, CORSAIR TW3X4G1333C9DHX 4GB PC3-10666, ASUS Radeon HD 4870 512MB, SB audigy gamer, WESTERN DIGITAL Caviar Black 500GB, antec P180 case (extra 120mm fan and 80mm fan), Corsair HX Series 620W: ASSEMBLED June 2009
It's easy to assume that. The problem is, as broadband and other inventions increase the potential of online games it becomes easier and easier to see the flaws in windows networking design.HONkUS wrote: The first GPU (GeForce 256) offered amazing results that were visible in screenshots and video that could be seen online and in magazines. The truth is that you guys have no way of proving your claim without us buying one of your products and very few people will buy a product if they haven't SEEN what it can do.
If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
There is nothing wrong with on board NIC's when it comes to gaming and games haven't demanded much innovation in the areas your company is addressing since broadband came along.
Games are continually increasing the demands on the GPU/CPU/RAM NOT the NIC.
Windows has done nothing to address this issue as all of its optimizations have been done to improve web browsing and file transfers.
The windows network stack creates a pause between each ping of game data. We remove that pause with the linux NPU and we push the UDP data out for games before any other network traffic.
That's not how it was meant. Read the first thing I posted:You saying that we might be ok with integrated NIC's because we aren't "pro gamers" also is not going to win you any fans or purchases for that matter.
For a competitive gamer, every milisecond does count.
For a casual gamer, just the smoother more reliable network performance can make your gaming more enjoyable.
Is Killer "required"? No; but than I could sell you a PDA that runs the internet, lets you get email and even has a few games. Would you call it a good gaming computer? I hope not.
The Killer won't be for everyone. I'll never claim that it is. But if you live an online lifestyle, whether your competing or just casual and you want to improve the network connection in a way that's never been available before. Than Killer is that option.
I've always believed that more options are better. For the same reason there exists consoles, for the same reasons there exist so many options in graphics cards. Offering people a way to bypass the windows network stack, prioritize their UDP instead of TCP and to run FNA applications on their NPU instead of their CPU... well, what's wrong with that?
Should we stop inovating? Should we stop trying to make computers better? Should everyone be happy with the same old technology? I hope I never see that day.
I'm not sure what that would prove; but I'll go 1v1 against anyone in War Rock online.Ill tell you what if your such a "Pro Gamer" then lets get our best gamer running a non killer NIC versus you and your product and see who wins.
Or if you actually lived near Austin, TX we might be able to arrange something here. We did that for some of the local reviewers.
We only just recently (as in within the last couple of weeks) made a deal with Dell. They were here in the office and were very impressed with the results we were able to show to them.bigblockmatt wrote:aww, come on guys. don't bash the guy for defending his position and his company's products. you dont have to agree with it, but you dont need to be malicious about it.
Cinrellik, Im not sure if you know the numbers or not, but are these cards mostly sold seperate (as in DIY build their own and buy there own parts) or as builds from companies that build computers like a Dell or something like that?
If I'm not mistaken the Killer is currenlty available from the Dell store, but is not in their configuration for custom computers yet (it will be soon).
There are several other companys currently offering pre built systems with killer though, everything from Widow PC to Systemax and ABS have "online gaming PC's" with Killer included.
I'm not sure how many have sold pre built vs single, but the largest shipments I've seen were to New Egg and maybe Tiger Direct. So I would assume we've sold more singles. The pre built machines are fairly new, most started being offered around christmas. (they weren't available back when the M1 shipped in september)
Killer improves performance regardless of how old or new the computer is.Have you been able to test different systems at work?
I would like to see a KillerNIC installed and benchmarked on several systems.
Athlon XP 1600+ from 3 years ago
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ from a year ago
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 from current
Would the NIC provide the same improvements for all users or more no
However; what I've found in testing is that it provide differant kinds of performance increases.
1) The windows bypass removes alot of hesitation and hiccups, regardless of the system your on creating smoother gameplay.
2) The UDP priority creates a more stable ping environment with less spikes and dips, regardless of the system your on creating faster more reliable gameplay.
Now... to the numbers everyone likes to discuss: the FPS and ping improvements. Now, those numbers are gained based on how much load is being taken off the cpu and those have massive differances based on your system hardware.
The newer your system the less FPS and ping increase youll see (which has nothing to do with the 2 things I listed above). The older your system, the more benifit you will see from the offloading .
There is a natural progression in the performance curve, the older the computer the better the FPS and ping gained with killer until you devolve to a point where it's more benificial to simply upgrade the video card, or perhaps even the sound card or worse, the processor or motherboard itself (if they are truly ancient).
What I've found is that in comparable hardware upgrade costs, the Killer is often the most affordable choice.
Lets say you have a $100 video card, is it worth getting a $500 video card? You probably wouldnt spend that much. Lets say you started looking at $150 to $250 vid cards. How much actual performance do you gain? You might actually consider a killer at that point if you do alot of online gaming. Thus freeing up CPU power, gaining a few more FPS and smoothing out your network connection.
Now lets say you have a $50 video card, you would probably be better off getting a $200 vid card at that point and maybe better a killer later.
Now, what if you already have a $500+ vid card, do you really want to dump $1000+ to see a small performance gain? Killer will give you a differant kind of performance boost for much less than you would need to spend in upgrading the vid card.
So what killer offers is a differant way to optomize a system, in a way that will complement other upgrades to your system in the long run.
I view most of my personal purchases by comparing long term value. For example, I never buy the "best" video card for my home computer. I buy the one that plays the games I currently want to play at a price I can afford. Why? because I know 6-12 months from now, I might consider upgrading it again. But, I buy the top of the line gaming keyboard, because I know that I don't need to replace that for the next 3-4 years unless I wear out or break it.
Killer is one of those long term components. The technology of networking cards has not changed in many years, until now. This isn't a vid card you'll want to replace from year to year, or the latest trend in sound cards. This is a networking solution that solves a windows networking problem and with our ongoing driver upgrades, and future FNA applications, it's value is only going to improve.