Fried CPU or PSU???

[unclechoochoo]

Hey guys, I need some help!!! I am new to the whole building the computer thing and I think I just fried something in my tower. I think I have it narrowed down to either the CPU or the power supply. I was running Prime 95s torture test for a hour or so when my comp shut down and I smelled a faint oder of electrical smoke. When I hit the power button, the computer comes on for maybe half a second then shuts down. I was thinking that it maybe might be the PSU as it was a super cheap one. But I took the CPU heat sink off and there seems to be no white thermal paste on the core. The heat sink had the thermal past already applied on its base and now there is none on the spot where the CPU core meets the base of the heat sink, just all around it.

So either way its going to cost me $50.00 to fix it. Fifty for a new CPU or fifty for a new PSU. So what do you guys think? CPU or PSU?

Here is my system

Sempron 2200 overclocked to 2ghz
AsrockK7S41GX
512 megs of ram
ATI 9800-pro (AIW)
super cheap 450 watt PSU (came with the case $20.00)
20 gig Quantum fireball
30 gig Maxtor
2 80-mm case fans

I can get photos of the cpu and heat sink if that will help.

Thanks for the help, Chuck T

[infinitevalence]

Well if you put your nose down by the power supply and take a wiff you should beable to tell very qwickly if its the psu or not. and when you turned it back on did it try to post or was it just a black screen with all the fans and stuff running?

[Apoptosis]

First off welcome to the forums and sorry to hear about your issues.

I've fried a decent number of motherboards and have seen the same things you are talking about.. If you can get your hands on a volt meter you can check what kind of voltage the PSU is putting out for that split second.

I'm guessing you have also cleared the CMOS (BIOS Jumper) and that didn't work either.

[T-Shirt]

I'm thinking a short, maybe in the PSU, but maybe not.
If it was dead, it wouldn't start at all.
MB is possible, CPU maybe.
check around/behind the MB for burnt parts or loose stuff.
disconnect the PSU and jumper it to run. ,if it keeps running test (Multimeter as above) check it's output.
next try it with the MB without the cpu in.
what happens?

[Sovereign]

...
super cheap 450 watt PSU (came with the case $20.00)
...

That's probably it. Maybe it even fried your system...sorry to say. Bad PSUs are system killers.

[gatman1]

Hi guys, i think im having similar problems.

my computer was 222 Farenheit often and kept shtting off.
My computer teacher and my friend told me my Power Supply had burnt a chip or somtin. I remember the case came with a 480 Watt Power Supply. So i took the old one (Antec True 550 Watt) out and put the one with the case. When i finished all the wiring, i noticed that the heatsink on the cpu had a lot of dust. So i tried to take the cpu fan off, i noticed that the Heat Sink was loose, so i took it off and realised that the CPU was stuck to the heatsink. I removed it and saw that it had som whitish grey glue on it (btw, the glue was hard). I put the cpu back into its slot and everything else back in place, i turned on the computer but the screen was black although all the lights wer on in the tower. I also noticed that normaly the M/B's green light is still usualy on when i unplug the comp. i suppose thats from the battery, but now it wasnt on wen the comp was turned off.

My comp:
Intel Desktop Board D865PERL
Intel P4 3.4 or 3.2, dont remember.
4 Geils 512mb DDR400
ATI Radeon X800
......

Please help me fix it again.

[killswitch83]

yeah, could have fried the mobo...but what concerns me is you said the CPU was stuck to the HSF.....how long ago did you apply the thermal material? Sometimes, when it gets old, it can cause a bonding effect (found this out a long time ago when K6-2's were popular, used AS when I built this system, a couple of years later, for no reason, temps went skyhigh, checked it out and found the same thing you did- CPU was stuck to the HSF, and when I pulled it off, part of the core was melted, and the AS was like glue). Also, I hoped regular thermal material was used rather than thermal adhesive, lol. And actually, usually the LED's on the mobo stay on because the capacitors haven't bled off, they usually go out shortly after you unplug it (at least that's to my experience anyways). Just like a PSU, mobo's have capacitors that need to bleed off. Now, if the LED's go immediately out after unplugging, then I would say that it's possible both your PSU and mobo are bad, because when a PSU surges or brown-out occurs, there's always the possibility it will pop a capacitor, thus blowing the board. make sure the CPU is ok though (clean it up decently, check for core chips, cracks, etc, and put it aside and get yourself some new components). Make sure to do some thorough testing first just to make sure.

[gatman1]

well, i baught the parts and paid som1 at CompUSA to build it, so i dont kno anyting about the thermal material.

Also, what testing should i do?

I dont remember well but shouldnt the Pentium 4 CPU have som sort of writing or somtin on top? cus now all it is is that grey stuff on it and it became silver colored.

Im thinking to take it to CompUSA again so they fix it. But what stuff should i buy cause i dont want them to rip me off by buying stuff i dont need.

[killswitch83]

oh God you paid a group of morons to build it, lol. they probably put inferior thermal interface material in it, because it will discolor after prolonged use. If it's under warranty still, go ahead and let them do it again, but if it's not, try your hand at building the system back, trust me, it would be better than what they can pull off (trust me, I used to work at Best Buy, and those guys were morons in their own respect...I've seen things like those techs trying to hot-swap an IDE HDD, PCI cards, plug IDE cables in backwards in older systems that didn't have the keyed connectors, etc, etc). I even seen a tech from Best Buy go into a case without proper ESD protection, and fry a system, and then try to pawn it off on the customer, saying it was something they did. Sorry man, but I just don't put much trust in retail computer techs. Maybe a few of them are ok, as I worked with a couple good ones, but for the most part they need more industry training. Now places that specialize in it, such as Computer Direct Outlet (CDO) in Greenville, SC do an excellent job, as it is their hobby, their job, and pretty much their life in concerns to knowledge and experience (and "paper"). Just a little advice from a prior retail computer tech who lost his way and found it again through a little group of enthusiasts (hint hint Nate ).

On a side note, did they use thermal grease or did they use a pad (in other words, does it look like a whole square area is covered with thermal material and a core imprint in the middle, or did they use thermal grease?)

[gatman1]

to tell you the truth, i have no clue, i didnt kno that u need to put thermal grease etc till ytour post.

but yea, this guy really sucked. he screwed up all the wiring. their was barely any airflow. when i went the next day to get the comp, i found him playing Doom 3 on my computer. He said he istalled the demo because he thought i might like it, im like, wtf, im not paying u to play games. but anyways. i dont think their is a warranty.

anyways, my friend says i need to replace the m/b. i think i need to replace the cpu. and from this string im guessing i have to get a new power supply aswell. im confused right now. so can u help me find out what i need to replace?

yea, its the whole cpu with that grey stuff. but only on the heat sink part, not on the needles. lol

before i unstuck the cpu fromt the heatsink, i noticed that their was the thermal stuff leaking. so i took a knife and carefully unstuck them.

[bubba]

when my PSU fried, the power plug to the mobo had a burnt pin on it. pretty much killed my mobo. near as I can tell the chip is ok, but havent had access to a socket a mobo long enough to tell if it is still good, just that it posted.

here is a link that shows the power plug on my old systems psu.

http://forums.legitreviews.com/viewtopi ... hlight=psu

if you have a buddy that will let you use his PSU for 10 minutes, you can find out real quick if the mobo/cpu is the problem.

[killswitch83]

what was leaking might not have been thermal material. there is strained silicone inside processor cores, and if it reaches a certain temp, or if the seal around the slug (rectangular piece on the chip) is broken, it will leak. but yeah, just to make absolutely sure, find a friend with a known good PSU, reassemble the HSF and CPU (remember to put down thermal material, something like AS 5), connect everything and give it a go. If you get nothing, then you can be sure that the mobo, PSU, and possibly the CPU is gone. Remember, cheap PSU's kill mobos, and I believe it's because there is crappy internal surge suppression in the PSU, and when it get a big jolt, it fries the PSU and sends the surge through the main power connector to the mobo, thus frying it. Accept my apology for telling you to go back to CompUSA last night, lol, because you're right, those guys are just there for the money and only minimally use their skills (if they have any at all). Good luck on trying another PSU and such, and if it is just the PSU and everything else functions properly, then make sure you get a good one this time, something like an Antec TruePower 2.0 550W, which they have for $96.77 including three-day shipping. It's a good PSU and has fairly stable rails, unless you're looking to go insane with your system (insane OC I mean), then the voltage rails may be somewhat unstable, but otherwise rock-solid IMO. Hope everything turns out for you

[T-Shirt]

there is strained silicone inside processor cores, and if it reaches a certain temp, or if the seal around the slug (rectangular piece on the chip) is broken, it will leak. :

What???????
strained silicone is NOT a liquid!!!( at least not at any temp you want to be anywhere near)

[Apoptosis]

Yeah strained silicon is just the process done to the cpu... it's not a liquid.

A layer of Si-Ge (silicon germanium) is laid down, and then a layer of pure silicon is deposited on top of that. The silicon germanium matrix is much more spread out than just pure silicon. When the new layer of silicon is deposited on top of the silicon germanium, the pure silicon lattice tries to line up with the Si-Ge, and in the process it “stretches out” or, as they term it, becomes “strained”. This strained layer of silicon becomes the pathway for electrons to flow through between the metal gates.

[gatman1]

well thnks guys.

The reason i put the cheap PSU was because it was the only 1 around and i had to test somtin. The one i normaly had was a Antec True 550 and the fans in it werent runing well, my computers teacher said that it could of fried a chip inside the PSU. PS: With the Antec PSU, my CPU was at 220 Farenheit. and the ram also had high Temps. So then i put the cheap one and nothing would turn on.

My friend said that the grey stuff is because i took the computer apart right after i shut it down, which is true.

Since i didnt actually use the cheap psu i dont think i burnt the m/b but i definetely need a new PSU and i think i need a new CPU too.

[killswitch83]

Yeah strained silicon is just the process done to the cpu... it's not a liquid.

A layer of Si-Ge (silicon germanium) is laid down, and then a layer of pure silicon is deposited on top of that. The silicon germanium matrix is much more spread out than just pure silicon. When the new layer of silicon is deposited on top of the silicon germanium, the pure silicon lattice tries to line up with the Si-Ge, and in the process it “stretches out” or, as they term it, becomes “strained”. This strained layer of silicon becomes the pathway for electrons to flow through between the metal gates.

Now, see what happens when you used to do too many neurotropic drugs, rofl; my bad, I had no idea

[Kerii]

I think capacitors are the only thing in modern computer systems that can leak. So if there's any liquid, it's either the motherboard or powersupply. Not that you would need me to tell you that though, when they burst or leak, you'll know what's broken, lol.

Foreign substances like ceramic and silver thermal gunk not withstanding of course.

[killswitch83]

just remember, Mary Jane is NOT your friend, rofl; alcohol: maybe, sex: definitely, but NOT reefer, lol. anyways, yeah you're right about that, capacitors can leak (don't think the ones on mobos are oil-filled though, as I think those are the only ones that can leak crap out). All I know is that if it looks burnt, smells burnt, and tastes burnt, then it is most definitely BURNT!!! lol

[gatman1]

k. so what heating stuff is best
and what is a good affordable PSU i can get. with no unnecassary long wires. cus they Antec True 550 had all this wires i didnt need and they wer taking space.

[killswitch83]

oh, you mean thermal material (thermal grease)? Tnat would be Arctic Silver 5, info can be found here. It stands up very well in desktop systems, and people have even used it on the Northbridge chip and their GPU. As for the PSU, well personally for the price and reliability Antec does have it down. Yeah they have bad ones from time to time, but that's to be expected. I've had one before, and it lasted me even far after I sold my old system.